Scarlet's World Premiere... (BTS Video from SF)

[Ash Worth]

More endless drivel. Footage? No. What's the point.

 

[Tim Hole]

Hehehe! Someone is getting angry. Their safari around the country is not for anyone specifically. As far as I was aware they decided to take a trip around the US, meet people interested in the EPIC and friends from REDUSER. Share the RED love and have a good time. We knew that a lot of footage would not be shown but one of joseph's responsibilities was to capture the behind the scenes. Ketch said that he tried to get a Fixed to take with them but there were none available. Obviously one became available. RED will release footage of the Fixed when they are ready. The problem with being the first to show footage from a camera is that it is criticised the world and the first lengthy shoots should be under the control of RED. It is important to be perfect. As Joseph stated this is the first time Scarlet has been in the world (away from RED). Maybe his cheeky titled threw you. But Joseph should not be forced to change it because of some loud dissenters who got confused.

Or in broader terms it shows the camera out and about. Like it/don't like it, but in the mean time. Everyone chill the fuck out or neither Ketch or Joseph will show any footage of EPIC or Scarlet (if they are even allowed to do that which I doubt they are). Because they are not obliged to do it in the first place.

 

[Martin Weiss]

Thanks, Tim.

 

[Max Gibson]

I'll say it again... No one owes you anything.

.

This is an overused phrased around here by gurus for replying to complainers, is this RED's opinion as well - on this subject !?

i rarely post here, but i have been reading almost every single forum since the announcement of the " 3K for $3K ". Your reaction to a very valid point is annoying enough to log in and post here. It sounds like you kinda feel owing it to red to be in charge of telling off people around here - often. i wished you could use part of that enthusiasm to share about this odd " hot topic - no content " video. The original poster like many others has been waiting for years and participated in this product by raising his / her hand to be amongst the first customers of this product. He / she perhaps made plans as a professional to use this product based on the specs and approximated release dates un- officially announced by red. This odd titled video just happened to be posted a few days prior to NAB with a phoney title. Additionally NAB came and gone and he / she is not being informed by RED officially about anything with respect to the product he / she is going to pay for with the money that is hard to come by these days. She / he has every right to express the impatientness with this and any other subject. Assuming he / she is assuming RED is owing to him / her is yours. As a matter of fact by many business standards, your comment is wrong. Any business feels strongly devoted to their faithful customers.
You must remember anytime there is a glitch in the production path of scarlet, waves of potential customers turns their attention to competing products that ARE physically available to purchase NOW. i am sure as an obvious fan boy you don't want to incur losses to RED.

As for me, i have been through Sony EX1, Sony EX3, 5D II while waiting for Scarlet. Some of those purchases were done the day after RED announced yet another delay. The combination FanBoys club, Half-baked hype creating stints and lack of respect to ( potential ) customer is piling up around RED with an alarming rate. i am not a cinema producer and quite frankly like many others around here 2K~1k in ProRes 4.2.2 " is " good enough for making a living, especially when it's offered now and without the BAD attitude of fans and / or the business offering it.

 

[Tim Nitsch]

This is an overused phrased around here by gurus for replying to complainers, is this RED's opinion as well - on this subject !?

i rarely post here, but i have been reading almost every single forum since the announcement of the " 3K for $3K ". Your reaction to a very valid point is annoying enough to log in and post here. It sounds like you kinda feel owing it to red to be in charge of telling off people around here - often. i wished you could use part of that enthusiasm to share about this odd " hot topic - no content " video. The original poster like many others has been waiting for years and participated in this product by raising his / her hand to be amongst the first customers of this product. He / she perhaps made plans as a professional to use this product based on the specs and approximated release dates un- officially announced by red. This odd titled video just happened to be posted a few days prior to NAB with a phoney title. Additionally NAB came and gone and he / she is not being informed by RED officially about anything with respect to the product he / she is going to pay for with the money that is hard to come by these days. She / he has every right to express the impatientness with this and any other subject. Assuming he / she is assuming RED is owing to him / her is yours. As a matter of fact by many business standards, your comment is wrong. Any business feels strongly devoted to their faithful customers.
You must remember anytime there is a glitch in the production path of scarlet, waves of potential customers turns their attention to competing products that ARE physically available to purchase NOW. i am sure as an obvious fan boy you don't want to incur losses to RED.

As for me, i have been through Sony EX1, Sony EX3, 5D II while waiting for Scarlet. Some of those purchases were done the day after RED announced yet another delay. The combination FanBoys club, Half-baked hype creating stints and lack of respect to ( potential ) customer is piling up around RED with an alarming rate. i am not a cinema producer and quite frankly like many others around here 2K~1k in ProRes 4.2.2 " is " good enough for making a living, especially when it's offered now and without the BAD attitude of fans and / or the business offering it.

I like your point of view!
Thank You Mr. Gibson!

 

[Justin Chando]

You guys definitely gotta go easy on them. If they were able post footage they would.
Until then, I'm just very happy to see the Scarlet making progress...A shoot outside of RED is a huge step. That means that it is working enough for them to let it go out of their sight.
I, along with many others look forward to the day that my Scarlet is in my hands.
Thanks for a glimpse of your shoot Joseph and Ketch..... super jealous

 

[David Rasberry]

Hey Joseph and Ketch,

Thanks for this video and all the videos you guys have posted from the tour. I know when you get a little time to catch your breath from the trip and NAB you will post some Epic footage for us at least. Maybe with Red's blessing a few comparison shots side by side from Scarlet too. Thanks for all the effort.

This is the first time as far as I know that a Scarlet has been allowed out of the house without a Red Team escort. Congrats on the coup. I am totally jealous.

 

[Jose Alvarez]

Moderate your tone of voice (or writing) when you are referring yourself to my self and or any one that has something to do directly with my self.

Last I checked I NEVER once offended and or out of context attacked any one and I demand the same respect from any one here, or else were, that means you included, Jose.

Re-fraise your words, and if sound more like a suggestion instead of an insult to some one that has been putting ton of effort in bringing you BTS footage and pictures,
then could be taken a bit better.

Again the title choice is of Joseph and his alone, s the creator of the Videos, if He fills to change the title He will, till then be nice...

I understand that my tone was abrasive, but certainly not meant to insult you or anybody Ketch. But with all due respect I stand by my point, which simply is that the author of the title of the thread should have used better judgement by implying that some of the footage seen was from Scarlet.

Many people come to this forums in search of information they can use to evaluate a possible purchase. NOTHING MORE. So is obvious how damaging misinformation can be.

If I was on this forum just to hang-out and chat with other RED users, this all would be a moot point. But that is not the case for me or many others, and they deserve respect too.

If an apology is required, I officially apologize.

 

[Jose Alvarez]

Please tell me you didn't think that was Epic/Scarlet footage?? I mean, really??

That was exactly my point Liam. Anybody who is used to RED footage or has worked with r3d would know right away what they are seeing. But a prospect buyer interested in Scarlet, never having seen Scarlet footage before, will easily say, hmmm so that is what Scarlet footage looks like?

 

[Brian Murphy]

Obviously this has gotten out of hand. I tend to agree with people. I am Ketch'd out. I am Ted'ed out. Like I said in another area, I will just go buy another camera like I did a couple of years ago while waitng for then then $3500.00 dollar Scarlet. Nothing personal against Jim or his Possé. But at this stage after years of watching this group and waitng for NAB and the " great announcement." I think we who are working shooters, and not members of the inner circle or fanboys and yes gentlemen you are indeed the aforementioned but and I say this not out of envy but based on the absolute insanity of the title of this thread. Enough is enough. Certainly I have said and written enough to banish me to RED'S : NEVER WILL YOU OWN RED territory. I think that those of us who want a Scarlett are dreaming. Red wants to take on Sony and more so Arri and we are "fart the messenger" in this battle. I mean lets be real... a $7 to $10 K base camera or a $50 to $??k base camera?
If I am "FOS" then let Jannard cut the crap with the "we will only play with people who tow our line" nonsense and let him come forward and be transparent. This is a simple request and the line that "we can cut you out if you are not on our team and play by our rules" or whatever the wording is will be exactly what it is... a line.
Oh Yeh, "For those of you playing the "Home Game" my 12 posts and Junior member title mean simply this. I don't have the luxury of time to spend posting, I am a small time working shooter. My first camera was an 16mm Trenka (double system) camera made in Ottawa Ontario Canada and the tool of choice of a great DOP Jean Bisson.
I work for a living. I wish I had more time to post for a living... I don't.
I will come back and read all the nasty response to this post in a day or so... but we are in midst of an election up here in Canada. I am luckily working... if my name hasn;t been banished and my account here not stricken I will read but not respond until the fall.. I will have time then.
Cheers
Murph

 

[Jose Alvarez]

Obviously this has gotten out of hand. I tend to agree with people. I am Ketch'd out. I am Ted'ed out. Like I said in another area....

BTW, I'm not affiliated with Brian in any way. :blush5:

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Re-fraise your words, and if sound more like a suggestion instead of an insult to some one that has been putting ton of effort in bringing you BTS footage and pictures,
then could be taken a bit better.

What Ketch said.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

This is an overused phrased around here...

What does Joseph owe you? His post was perfectly clear to me.

What does RED owe you? They have been brutally honest throughout the development of Epic and Scarlet. I understand the frustration, but realize they are breaking new ground here. There are always delays with projects this innovative because of all the unknowns involved.

Your reaction to a very valid point is annoying enough to log in and post here.

I don't agree that it was a valid point. I think it was an overreaction.

It sounds like you kinda feel owing it to red to be in charge of telling off people around here - often.

I think I've only "told off" 2 people and both deserved it.

This odd titled video just happened to be posted a few days prior to NAB with a phoney title.

The title was clear to me and it was posted today. Not a few days prior to NAB.

Additionally NAB came and gone and he / she is not being informed by RED officially about anything with respect to the product he / she is going to pay for with the money that is hard to come by these days.

Did you not see the posts by RED about the problems they are having getting parts out of Japan?

Any business feels strongly devoted to their faithful customers.

I would say RED has more than demonstrated their devotion. Can you name one other camera company that would offer sensor upgrades they have?

You must remember anytime there is a glitch in the production path of scarlet, waves of potential customers turns their attention to competing products that ARE physically available to purchase NOW.

By "glitch" do you mean tsunami? Do you not believe that RED is doing everything possible to get these cameras out the door as fast as they can?

As for me, i have been through Sony EX1, Sony EX3, 5D II while waiting for Scarlet.

And my guess is that you will still want to buy a Scarlet when it is released since there is nothing comparable to it. If it was easy to do what RED is doing the market would be flooded with cameras offering the same functionality.

i am not a cinema producer and quite frankly like many others around here 2K~1k in ProRes 4.2.2 " is " good enough...

If 2K~1K is "good enough" then why are you so pissed off?

Everyone chill the fuck out or neither Ketch or Joseph will show any footage of EPIC or Scarlet (if they are even allowed to do that which I doubt they are). Because they are not obliged to do it in the first place.

Exactly.

 

[Anthony Cote]

why can't we all just be happy to see the Scarlet out in the wild. I've seen more working Scarlets in the past 4 days than ever. Good news to me. I'm excited, and these guys are traveling America at their own expense. They are being so generous with their time and skills. I didn't feel like I was owed anything, I was just excited to see glimpses of professionals using the Epic and Scarlet in the wild

 

[Leo Sardello]

Well, this looks as good a thread as any for a little rant...

I have to admit I am totally shocked at what’s going on around here lately. People are blowing their tops, especially in this thread and another similar “misleadingly titled” thread. Misleading? Are these threads from a RED employee? Oh, no? Then how could it possibly be misleading?

Alright I’ll give it to you that if you’ve never been on the forum before, maybe you wouldn’t know yet how to tell who is from RED and who is not. However if you are savvy enough to make your way to an internet forum in search of information that doesn’t seem readily available elsewhere, you’ve got to be able to put it together pretty quickly that not every single thread (regardless of its title) is going to be the inside info that no-one else in the world has yet.

And when you see this thread (from a forum member who doesn’t represent RED) that is sooooo misleading it forces you to click on it and then doesn’t contain what you hoped it would the reaction is really “I’ve gotta post and tell people how offensive this is!”? I mean as opposed to “Huh. Well that wasn’t Scarlet footage.” Or “Gee. Guess that one didn’t actually have Scarlet specs. Oh well. Guess I’ll go do something else.”

This is my advice, advice you have absolutely no reason to take: The knowledge that you so desperately seek, the BIG announcements (release dates, prices and spec sheets, even footage) will be readily available all over the friggen internet WHEN it does become available. If that is all you care about and participating in or reading a forum aggravates you, skip the forum, hell read engadget. If however you like communicating with other like-minded customers/fans and understand how to read a forum- i.e you are alright with the fact that EVERY forum has “misleading thread titles” “fanboy praise” and “noise”- then hang out here and have a good time.

/rant :svengo:

 

[Max Gibson]

What does Joseph owe you? His post was perfectly clear to me.
What does RED owe you? They have been brutally honest throughout the development of Epic and Scarlet. I understand the frustration, but realize they are breaking new ground here. There are always delays with projects this innovative because of all the unknowns involved.
I don't agree that it was a valid point. I think it was an overreaction.
I think I've only "told off" 2 people and both deserved it.
The title was clear to me and it was posted today. Not a few days prior to NAB.
Did you not see the posts by RED about the problems they are having getting parts out of Japan?
I would say RED has more than demonstrated their devotion. Can you name one other camera company that would offer sensor upgrades they have?
By "glitch" do you mean tsunami? Do you not believe that RED is doing everything possible to get these cameras out the door as fast as they can?
And my guess is that you will still want to buy a Scarlet when it is released since there is nothing comparable to it. If it was easy to do what RED is doing the market would be flooded with cameras offering the same functionality.
If 2K~1K is "good enough" then why are you so pissed off?
Exactly.

The above is comments relate to my post ( #44 ) in the same thread.

In an attempt not to turn this to a personal argument i just say :
- i am sure you have valid reason for your POV.
- Some of your comments are way off from quoted subject.
- Some of your comments are to quotations made up from incomplete sentences of my posting.
- You are speculating about my ideas and then ranting about them.
- You are correct about my mistake on the date of Posting the Scarlet's World Premiere Video. i meant the the day it was shot.
- You are wrong when speculating that i will buy a scarlet regardless. You could've been dead right in 2008. This is 2011 and i have competing options. As i mentioned i am NOT a cinema producer and because i am not a cinema producer Progressive 2K ~ 1K in ProRes 422 is good enough for me. We have had an open budget for three current camcorder form 1080P cameras since fall 2010. With no solid or soft release dates for Scarlet i am on the fence for ( AF 100-101 ) or one of NEX flavours at this point.


Here is my POV. Try to understand the constructive nature of it.
- i have great sympathy for the people of Japan especially for those that survived the recent tsunami and are living with consequences of natural and manmade disasters. i am aware of the supply chain issues for RED also. None of the above explains the events of 3K for $3K to NAB 2011. As valid the latest excuse for lack of clarity is; potential customers are just that " potential customers ". RED as a multi million dollar business is doing what they can for damage control these days - as many other businesses doing effected by made in Japan supplies. The Million Dollar question is; Telling off people that making concerning comments about a hot topic, fake titled video is the best you can offer to your potential customers at this point ? i am sure every time one of the fan boys barks at another member the Marketing department and the accounting supervisors frown these days. A lot of investment and seed money at stake here. Potential customers don't need to be lectured on how to be thankful for the most wonderful product they are paying for nor they need to be nice in the process of purchase. The potential customers has the right to ask questions about the product they are buying and they deserve the most courteous answers to their questions and concerns.
As i said before there is an alarming volume of unnecessary crap is piling around the RED and the related forums. While you are under the assumption of supporting or defending the mothership you may unknowingly causing damages to the reputation of RED and RED users or at the least divert sales to the competition.

It might not looks like it from the three postings i have had here, but i am a FanBoy of different colour. i have a great admiration to the technology of RED. The early days of RED ONE was my inspiration to move from still image making to moving images yet again - i have had encounters with BOLEX and K3 in my youth. Lastly , using THE WEB for creating such a large following for a product that is taking over three years to complete has been my best learning experience in a life time.

 

[Kian Marandi]

I agree with you Leo.

I think everyone should remember these two VERY reasonable assumptions:

1) Everyone at RED wants more than anything to have Epic, Scarlet, you name it, shipping yesterday. Why wouldn't they? They're a company that's all about changing the game. How do you change the game? You be the first to do it. They've already done it with the Red One... and with huge success. They want Epic and Scarlet to start shipping now more than we do. That's why they are spending ALL (quite literally) their time trying to make it happen.

2) I'm sure the people that RED have trusted with prototypes, Epic-M's, etc would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be the first to post real-world footage as seen through a Scarlet Fixed (or whatever other product). As a professional in the industry, can you imagine how much that internet traffic alone would help their reputation/business (let alone bragging rights! hehe)? I'm sure Joseph and Ketch would absolutely love to be able to post the footage they shot that day. It's pretty safe for us to assume that RED has given them some guidelines as to what they can or cannot do.... and why shouldn't they be able to? These cameras are their babies... the culmination of thousands of hours of work. What these products do is capture images... and if the first Scarlet-captured images that are released into the wild aren't exactly how they want it... imagine how disheartening that could be! RED has all the right to debut Scarlet's footage when and how they want it. They built the thing.

Everyone needs to remember these points... it'll put things into perspective for you. I can't even imagine how much of his personal finances Jim has put into this company.... he wants all of this to happen more than any of us, and NOT just for financial reasons. Period.

Just enjoy the ride guys... this is a great community. I've learned tons here. Let's not spoil it.

Big thanks to Joseph and Ketch for making this happen. I, and many others, appreciate it. Please don't be swayed by nay-sayers.

 

[Steven Hammer]

http://www.vimeo.com/22330393

Part 5 of our EPIC American Tour in San Francisco, CA

The first official Scarlet shoot (outside of RED) occurred on April 5th, 2011 in San Francisco, CA

KETCH ROSSi - EPIC/Scarlet Operator
Nathan Garafalos - EPIC/Scarlet Operator
Joseph Hutson - Scarlet Operator/BTS Cam Operator/Editor
Jenna Willey - BTS Stills/Cam Operator

Special thanks to:

Nathan Garofalos for Hosting
RED Digital Cinema for the Unique Opportunity
Maxx Digital for providing storage space

Thanks! I am excited to see Scarlet out in the world! I'm excited that it's one step closer to being in my hands.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

we are all adults and should be able to tell the difference between estimated delivery dates and finalized shipping dates. If you plan a project or job around an announced product with no solid shipping date then that is your problem, I have never seen one solid delivery date or time until recently with epic-x (not to say it even had a date just the closest I've seen) and considering the situation I can understand them missing those dates.

There is scarlet footage on this forum short but it is there, you can even download the r3d and play with it in redcine-x. Yes the title was misleading but as has been stated before it was not from a moderator let alone a red employee, now being new here does make sense, but in my book it's best to observe things and see how they work, before jumping in and attacking left right and center.

Now are we all a little upset that low level people such as myself and others have no affordable red camera for purchase anytime soon, of course, but that doesn't mean red isn't as well. It's all fine to be upset and vent your frustrations, just try and take into account the position of the people you may be criticizing and look at it from their perspective.

Red is a business not a family despite how it may seem at times, they can operate and do whatever they want... to a certain extent. I think we should all just be appreciative of what they have done and are trying to do and cut them a little slack every now and then, otherwise they may just turn fully into a behemoth of a company that no longer understands it's customers and only cares about the bottom line, because it seems that's what a lot of you want them to turn into, weather you know it or not.

play nice!

 

[Terry VerHaar]

... None of the above explains the events of 3K for $3K to NAB 2011.

OK, I can't believe people are still on the 3K for $3K rant but consider this...

If RED delivers the Fixed package they have previously indicated for the approximate price level of about $6K, it was posted that it would include the following items with these associated prices:

- 5 inch LCD - $1600
- Side Handle ** - $950 (this includes a battery, which would probably be about $250 more (??)
- CF Module - $500 (assuming they don't jump to the SSD Module which is listed at $1500
- REDMote - $550

Now that is an additional $3600 (or more) in module value beyond just the 3K brain. By my calculation, that somewhat technically gives you your 3K for $3K - maybe even a tad better than that. Of course, all this is inexact and certainly "subject to change..." but can we just stop beating this VERY DEAD HORSE? :sad:
:beatdeadhorse5:


** Actually the side handle wasn't the original spec as they were somewhat unclear about the power option. This is what they are currently discussing privately for inclusion however.