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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet 2/3" Fixed @ CES

AndreeMarkefors said:
To my group I think $6000 comes close to the breaking point.
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I'm not trying to knock your budgeting, but I've heard other people say similar things (i.e., "I plan to stretch and spend every penny we can on the camera") without considering the other costs of ownership - like media storage.

REDRAW is amazing at what it does, but it is definitely not like storing, working with, or backing up some ~35mbs video.
 
Joseph Hutson said:
On the flip side, if you would rather faster glass than the f2.4 / T2.6 found in the FIXED model, RED will be manufacturing "Mini-RED PRIMES" (2/3" Format) to go along with the CINEMA model...

6.5mm T1.9
8mm T1.5
16mm T1.5
25mm T1.8
50mm T2.9
75mm T4​

Last projected price point was about $900/each...
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If I remember correctly, the initial price for the Scarlet fixed was going to be $3,000 and the initial price for the Scarlet interchangeable was $2,500. Although those prices are long gone, I would expect actual pricing to be roughly proportional.

Based on that evidence, it appears RED can make the fixed zoom for quite a bit less than the primes. I suspect this is because the lens mount itself is an expensive, finely crafted piece of equipment, and the fixed saves the cost of the mount.

The RedMote is a very cool thing, but it looks to me like it duplicates the functions already existing in the touchscreen. It might be best for it to remain an option, especially as I remember it to be pretty expensive relative to the total Scarlet cost (around $500).

I would, however, like to see at least a rudimentary microphone. RED can buy microphones in bulk much cheaper than we can. I think of the Scarlet Fixed as the "run and gun" camera and so it seems illogical for it not to have a gun :).

D
 
The side handle makes the most sense for the basic package as it is the lowest cost module for both power and control. From what has been hinted at there may be an app to run the camera from a laptop or maybe even an iPad or iPhone via Wi-Fi.
 
Michael Olsen said:
I'm not trying to knock your budgeting, but I've heard other people say similar things (i.e., "I plan to stretch and spend every penny we can on the camera") without considering the other costs of ownership - like media storage.
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I understand what you're saying. But the quote you use is not from me.

Shooting RAW and movies with an 5D mkII, I already need to think about those things—even if the files are smaller. It adds up.

Even more reason that the actual filming device can't be too expensive. There's a limit in there somewhere.

As you can see I also listed "cheap media", exactly because I know I'm going to need some. But my category of users can't just "pick up a couple of SSDs". Well... I could, but then I want a business first.
 
AndreeMarkefors said:
I am a hobbyist looking to become commercial for small jobs such as events and weddings. I have no plans doing "productions" with lots of gear involving many people. It will be me and an assistant or two.
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Hey Andree,

I guess we all have a lot of expectations for Scarlet, but I'm not sure if this is going to be the camera for event/wedding projects. I'm not talking about a level of production, but just purely from a logistical standpoint.

If you're just starting out, wanting to shoot events and weddings, you need to have storage media to burn, not to mention battery life. If you went with Scarlet for this kind of production, and you're shooting to CF ("relatively" cheap), I think you'd fill the whole thing up with one father-daughter dance...and let's not even start talking about the ceremony...or mixing multiple cameras.

I'm right there with you wanting to configure a run/gun Scarlet rig, but I don't think event and wedding productions would be a good logistical choice for Scarlet...unless you were using SSDs and a RED Volt module, but now we're back to the budget issue.

If you're looking for an out of the box system, that you can shoot for hours, record to cheap media, with a $6000 price tag...I don't think it's going to be Scarlet.

I say, keep using your EX1/HV20/HPX, or whatever you're using for events, get a Scarlet, and make some commercials. You can do it!
 
Cheap media might not work reliably on Scarlet. Most do not meet their specs for the high continuous write speeds necessary for raw video files. If you value your work and time you will want Red certified media. $300 for a 16GB card. The lion clip that Jarred posted is around 18MB per second at 24fps. There is good reason why most camera makers produce their own certified media for video cameras even if it is in a common data card form factor.
 
Judging from that REDCODE spec sheet Jim posted, a 16GB card would provide approximately 20 minutes of shooting 3K 2:1 at a 12:1 ratio.
 
Matt Dufilho said:
Thanks for that info, Michael. That's more than I thought.
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Of course, that's 12:1 compression. I have no idea what that would look like. My understanding is that 5:1 is favored as the most efficient in terms of file size and subjective image quality. At that ratio, you get down to approximately 8.5 minutes.

There is, at least, I suppose, room to trade quality for cost in that regard...
 
Matt Dufilho said:
I guess we all have a lot of expectations for Scarlet, but I'm not sure if this is going to be the camera for event/wedding projects.
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Hi Matt,

Lots of valid input in your post.

I know the battery is a problem for events and I have sort of "put off" thinking about data rates and CF card capacity before specs are published—mostly because I know deep inside that it's probably impractical... and that sort of spoils the fun =)

I mentioned event photography mostly because I understand it. It seemed like the easiest way in. Haven't made any firm plans whatsoever.

I'd probably enjoy commercial shootings more—since it's a controlled environment, but I've never been to one so I don't know what it's like or what would be expected of me.

Seems like fun though! Where do I start if I want to learn more about it? Any good resources out there?
 
well who knows what options will be out when the camera is released, you could always use a nano flash or ninja to go straight to another codec. And if you use the red one batteries the red bricks I have herd that you get drastically more record time, though they are much larger.

I'm not sayign you will be able to have an event camera configuration as soon as they ship or even at all, but I say wait and see because you never know what else will pop up I'm sure there are some on here that will find away to shoot all day with a scarlet at a reasonable redcode and a reasonably inexpensive package..... or not but they will try.

where there is a will there is a way.... it just might take a little ingenuity and ah I guess a little extra cash.
 
So after following this for quite some time and reading through the latest announcements, I'm beginning to think that the 2/3" Scarlet might be more of a contender than I originally thought. Certainly at this price point it makes sense.

My first impression was that in these days of large sensors that 2/3" was out of date out of the box, but I can see it being a good solution for docs, corporate, event and even indie films. Of course the images it creates will be the real tale of that.

In regards to that, can the zoom be controlled by a rocker like a standard video lens? Seemed like one of the interviews Ted did might have touched on that. I'm also assuming you'll need to have some sort of external ND filter.

In regards to an included mic, as long as you can hook up an external mic (such as a shotgun or wireless RX) then you're all set. Built in mics have limited use and don't cut it for interviews or dialog. I'm assuming that phantom power is a given for the XLR inputs.

Will be very interesting to see where Red is at when NAB roles around.
 
JW, there has already been confirmation that there is, in fact, a zoom rocker and phantom power.

Andree, I have to admit that the costs associated with SSD or CF media are pretty shocking once you confront them. But it looks to me like the capacities of the SSD are a much better fit for wedding or documentary work, where if you are out of media you lose a shot for good. SSDs are also a bit cheaper per unit of storage than CFs. Pity about the high costs of the SSD module - I do wonder what it does that's worth $1,500.

However, remember that the CF module costs $500 and the RED Fixed Kit includes one. RED is on record of crediting you for the CF module and charging just the difference for the SSD, so you probably are better off in all but the shortest term to bite the bullet and get the SSD.

D
 
In a year when major Academy awards went to films shot on S16 film, and 2/3" HD cameras the "my sensor is bigger than your sensor" argument doesn't hold much water.
People will do amazing things with the little Scarlet.
 
David Dennis said:
However, remember that the CF module costs $500 and the RED Fixed Kit includes one. RED is on record of crediting you for the CF module and charging just the difference for the SSD, so you probably are better off in all but the shortest term to bite the bullet and get the SSD.
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The cost of media has been the only let-down thus far with my plans for Scarlet. I work IT, and always look forward to knew developments in computer hardware. Over the next two quarter's we'll be seeing plenty of mainstream SSD's with MINIMUM read and write speeds of 300MB/s. These will also likely cost under $2 per GB. Can you imagine, < $200 128GB SSD's fast enough for the highest REDCODE. RED user's however can't access these advancements in technology. Instead, we must wait for RED to get a hold of the technology and repackage it - meaning RED will always be a step behind, and will probably cost considerably more as is the case at the moment.

I can only assume that RED make a lot of their money via the accessories they sell. They're probably not making a hell of a lot on the camera's themselves ($6k for a Scarlet Fixed; where's the money in that). Hence, keeping the media propriety is in their best interest.

While their's likely truth in what they say about connector wear on standard SATA SSD's, there's many ways RED could work around this. An adapter is probably the most feasible. But as I said, at least at the moment, it's not in RED's best interest to do this.

That said, I'm sure RED could still get plenty of sales on their own media, even it wasn't propriety. As long as the media came with some kind of performance and reliability guarantee, I'd imagine a lot of people would prefer to may extra for the RED media.
 
Tom, one possibility is the 1.8" size - most people compare the RED SSDs to pricing on larger format SSDs.

Also, various RED people have stressed the reliability and sustained transfer speeds as factors in drive choice for media.

Just factors to consider.
 
Tom Wardrop said:
The cost of media has been the only let-down thus far with my plans for Scarlet. I work IT, and always look forward to knew developments in computer hardware. Over the next two quarter's we'll be seeing plenty of mainstream SSD's with MINIMUM read and write speeds of 300MB/s. These will also likely cost under $2 per GB. Can you imagine, < $200 128GB SSD's fast enough for the highest REDCODE. RED user's however can't access these advancements in technology. Instead, we must wait for RED to get a hold of the technology and repackage it - meaning RED will always be a step behind, and will probably cost considerably more as is the case at the moment.

I can only assume that RED make a lot of their money via the accessories they sell. They're probably not making a hell of a lot on the camera's themselves ($6k for a Scarlet Fixed; where's the money in that). Hence, keeping the media propriety is in their best interest.

While their's likely truth in what they say about connector wear on standard SATA SSD's, there's many ways RED could work around this. An adapter is probably the most feasible. But as I said, at least at the moment, it's not in RED's best interest to do this.

That said, I'm sure RED could still get plenty of sales on their own media, even it wasn't propriety. As long as the media came with some kind of performance and reliability guarantee, I'd imagine a lot of people would prefer to may extra for the RED media.
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We will probably see RED's media costs come down as the raw media costs drop and perfomance improves. But a nominal write specification from the SSD manufacturer is no guarantee of actual performance or of controller compatibility with Red's software. The ability to sustain a continuous high speed write to full capacity and do it over and over again without losing any data is critical to this application. So far Red has been ahead of the curve pushing data rates that most off the shelf media can't sustain.
 
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