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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

SALT III- High Speed Lens Shootout "WFO" Results

Thanks so much to Evin,Will, Phil, the Matts, Ryan and everyone who gave their time and equipment to put together this comprehensive and useful test. Luma Tech Inc. and myself very much appreciate the invitation to participate.

We were generally pleased with both the technical and esthetic analysis of our product, the Illumina S35 series.
The product seems to fit in the hierarchy exactly where it should. What I'd like to encourage people to see is that the notion of a vertical hierarchy of best, next best etc. is perhaps a bit narrow. In real application to the task of shooting any given project, the choice of optics has really more of a horizontal structure, with technical and artistic considerations and their solutions running along parallel lines. The Illumina S35's should be seen as another "flavor" for the cinematographer's palette, rather than better or worse than other choices. They are a tool with particular characteristics which can be fitted to a range of jobs; flexible but also retaining their own unique character. I was pleased to see several of the reviewers note (correctly) that most flare on the lenses extinguishes by T2 (in some cases actually BEFORE T2). Given the colossal ISO range of today's digital cameras this gives the DP the ability to dial-in or dial-out lens flare as an effect when needed or not needed. The Illuminas are conservatively rated at T1.3, therefore what you give up in speed or focus isolation when stopping down 1/2 stop is almost nothing.

This may seem like a bold claim, but it has been independently verified via MTF analysis.

So kudos again to the REDUSER team for their service to the community.
 
Great Job

Great Job

Great job guys. Just shot with my 85mm CP Super Speed. I did notice the CA but not the breathing on my lens. Used outdoors at a 2.8 and indoors at a 1.5. I was very impressed with my 85.

Thanks again for all the work.
 
Charles Pickel said:
This may seem like a bold claim, but it has been independently verified via MTF analysis.
Click to expand...

That's exactly why I ran off to the side and shot some "practical" elements with them. I was certainly noticing something interesting about how the Illuminas performed as they were closed down. Usually around T1.8-T2 I was seeing what I would describe as a consistent flavor for the three lengths I tested on the side at Duclos Lenses. Once I was able to observe that in "realtime" and also check out the Stress Test images you get the feeling that there's a nice uniform flavor across the focal lengths as they are stopped down. That's one of the reasons I was impressed with them for sure.

Charles, is there an ETA for the 16mm that's in the works?
 
Thanks for your concise and thoughtful comments, Phil.

At present, we have started delivering the new 135mm T1.8 focal length. The next unit planned is a 14mm T1.8 (not a 16mm).
Luma Tech is pushing for either a prototype or at least a non-working mockup by NAB. This focal length calls for some advanced strategies to correct aberrations inherent in wide/fast lenses. Aspherics are a distinct possibility. Here is a rendering from LOMO:

Note: -Lens will be f1.6/T1.8 (not 1.9 as in drawing)
-Focus scale will have at least 180 deg. rotation (more than the 90 deg. shown)
-Front ring diameter will probably be 110mm
 

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Hi Everyone,

I've been looking through the results and was wondering how or if the lighting changed between shots set to 1.3 and 2.8. The shots that are 2.8 are so much warmer and I'm wondering if that's from the lighting changing or if its a characteristic of the lenses.

I was really noticing it with both the illuminas and the elites but then I checked the master primes and saw the same colour shift which I wouldn't expect.

Any info on the lighting methodology would be greatly appreciated.

At the risk of sounding redundant, thank you again very much!

Vince
 
Vince Arvidson said:
Hi Everyone,

I've been looking through the results and was wondering how or if the lighting changed between shots set to 1.3 and 2.8. The shots that are 2.8 are so much warmer and I'm wondering if that's from the lighting changing or if its a characteristic of the lenses.

I was really noticing it with both the illuminas and the elites but then I checked the master primes and saw the same colour shift which I wouldn't expect.

Any info on the lighting methodology would be greatly appreciated.

At the risk of sounding redundant, thank you again very much!

Vince
Click to expand...

Hey Vince,

Lighting remained consistent for every shot and never changed. Shutter speed was used to control exposure.
 
Schneiders & Illuminas

Schneiders & Illuminas

I have had the chance to play with both the Schneider Cine Xenar III lenses and the Illuminas. Charlie Pickel was gracious enough to allow us to both project and shoot some basic tests with the S35s. I would concur with what the team found with the S35s. They certainly have a fair amount of personality with lens flaring, flaring and CA and edge sharpness, but they do look interesting none the less. Build quality was nice. Size was nice. One "con" to me was the old style design with the aperture upfront and focus in the back. This is only an aesthetic thing, but something that surprised me. Maybe chalked up to their distant cousins in the Super Speeds?

While testing, I had a set of S4i lenses to compare to along with a set Mini S4 and a set of Standard Speeds and Super Speeds. In our tests, the Super Speeds kept pace with the S35s set in terms of lens flare and contrast. Now, mind you, our "test" wasn't as complete as we see here, but a kind of real world, look at faces, charts, lights and varied exposure on an Epic.

Thanks to Ryan Avery at Schneider and Matt Duclos, we got a set of Cine Xenar IIIs to shoot and test. The new Schneider lenses do look good, are sharp, have a nice amount of contrast, built well and mechanically feel good. We shot tests on an Alexa while comparing to Mini S4s and Ultra Primes. The Schneider lenses had virtually no breathing in comparison to the Mini S4s which for me, breathe much too much. The 18mm Schneider out performed the Mini S4 18 in terms of distortion or pin cushioning on the projector and the Schneider illuminated the field nearly evenly compared to noticeable fall off on the Mini S4 18. For sharpness and resolution, the Schneiders kept pace with the Ultra Primes across the whole line of lenses.

We were lucky to shoot the Schneiders in the field for three days on a FS700 with a Hot Rod Camera PL adapter. The lenses handled temperature shifting well (15 degrees to 75 degrees) well with no noticeable shifting in mechanics or optics. They were snappy and held contrast well even under fairly heavy lens flaring situations from both hard and soft light. Basically, they looked really good and were a pleasure to work with.

I think both sets are good value for the money. The Schneider lenses feel very solid for commercial work and narrative work. The Illuminas felt like a set of lenses perfect for music video work and narrative film making. Their "personality" would make me pause if I were to use them in situations where I needed more precision and less artifacts like product shooting or VFX work. (Gross generalizations on usage, I know, but that's what the lenses seem to be good for to me.)

Interesting optics. Hard decisions for those in the market to buy!

Matthew Clark
Seattle, WA
Director/DP
 
Thanks so much to everyone, this is great information (and well prepared).
I'm sometimes amazed how little information is available elsewhere about this critical part in the film-making "toolbox".

If there is another test, my offer to help stands. (L.A. based) :o)
 
Great test guys, really well done!
This makes me even more eager to get my Leicas in (I'm "only" #191 on the list!)
Regarding the "weak" 25mm Superspeed... I can confirm that is the weak one in my Mark 3 set, always has been from day one, even after a superb rebuild at Duclos years later. The 18mm is often problematic too from a maintenance standpoint too. Always tweaking that one.
Too bad about the 5i's. I'm a diehard Cooke fan and would have loved to see what magic they might have brought.
Cheers,
Harry
 
Fantastic test! Thanks for the write ups as well, they are really informative. The lack of fringing and their ethereal glow made the wide open Leica primes so beautiful, but they'll probably circle up in the heavens out of reach unless ... something profound happens!
 
Thanks for all your hard work guys, it's so valuable to be able to see all these test results.

Are we waiting on the video or is my browser skipping over it?
 
Ryan Koo said:
Thanks for all your hard work guys, it's so valuable to be able to see all these test results.

Are we waiting on the video or is my browser skipping over it?
Click to expand...

video will be up later tonight
 
Matt Ryan said:
We were originally supposed to have them, but since they were being donated, if a rental came we lost our set. Unfortunately, the day before the lenses got booked out. We contacted everyone in LA who had a set and all were out. We almost lost the Leica's as well but Band Pro stepped in and gave us a couple focal lengths that they had. You wouldn't believe how difficult it was for Will to coordinate getting these sets from all these places for the same 2 days. Somehow it was pulled off. So were all thankful for Will's hard work, without it there would be no shootout.
Click to expand...

I think if you do anything similar to this test in the future a crowd funding thingy could be handy, possibly even one for each set of lenses so people could actually pitch in to make sure that a specific lens set gets into the test. As for me I would have paid a lot to see the Vantage 1.0's in here. (probably not enough to have vantage sending a set from germany, but still I think there is more people here that would be happy to pay to see more test like these).

It was very nice and to me also very unbiased, as most people talking about lenses do so for the reason of promoting their own product, this test was to me very much the opposite.

So thanks a whole lot for doing what you all did.

So guys, what date have you decided upon for the anamorphic lens test :yesnod:
 
When you fly into LA. :)

Glad you guys enjoyed the tests. It's great to get the info out there and we were fortunate to have skilled professionals involved.

Matt Uhry has already done an extensive anamorphic tests of his own, I'd like to create another as well as a zoom test.

My next trip to LA I'd like to organize a zoom test with Optimo 24-290s, Canon 30-300, the Angie DP rouge, Allura's, the fuijnon 19-90 and a few more. Then anamorphics. I think there are a few new ones about to hit the market, so it might be best to wait till they hit.

Björn Benckert said:
I think if you do anything similar to this test in the future a crowd funding thingy could be handy, possibly even one for each set of lenses so people could actually pitch in to make sure that a specific lens set gets into the test. As for me I would have paid a lot to see the Vantage 1.0's in here. (probably not enough to have vantage sending a set from germany, but still I think there is more people here that would be happy to pay to see more test like these).

It was very nice and to me also very unbiased, as most people talking about lenses do so for the reason of promoting their own product, this test was to me very much the opposite.

So thanks a whole lot for doing what you all did.

So guys, what date have you decided upon for the anamorphic lens test :yesnod:
Click to expand...
 
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Some of the Canon files have been incorrectly labeled. I was looking at the Canon cine 24mm at T1.5 thinking that it was a stunning lens when I noticed on the board it says T2.8 - which makes much more sense.

Anyway, amazing test. Especially useful for all the people in parts of the world where you can't just walk into a store asking to see some cine lenses. Thanks for all the hard work!
 
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