Released: R3D Data Manager for Mac v6.1

[Conrad Hunziker]

Sorry for re-posting but still need to know:
Yes I am selecting the same checksums as were used and am selecting the folder that is one above the RDM as the destination. Still the "verify all checksums" button is grayed out and I can't check the checksums.

Thanks,
Nir.

Im unable to duplicate this issue. The RDC folders have checksums?

Edit: you need to select the previous destination as the source to then verify checksums. Above you said you are selecting it as a destination.

Edit 2: The checksums are verified as standard procedure for all destinations during the copy process. The only time they are not is if you explicitly tell the program not to, in the option "after copy".

 

[Nir Shelter]

Im unable to duplicate this issue. The RDC folders have checksums?

Edit: you need to select the previous destination as the source to then verify checksums. Above you said you are selecting it as a destination.

Edit 2: The checksums are verified as standard procedure for all destinations during the copy process. The only time they are not is if you explicitly tell the program not to, in the option "after copy".

Hi Conrad.
Yes the RDC folders have checksum and I miss worded my last post I meant that I selected the previous destination (the copied media) as the new source. I also selected the folder one above the RDM folder and the checksum type is the same. I did make sure that the after copy option is: "don't check destinations" but the verify all checksums button is still greyed out and I can't check the checksums.

I need to be able to check the checksums, as this is part of my workflow.
Do I need to install anything ells? Would any details about my system help figure this out?
Thanks.

 

[Drew Suppa]

The program has no idea about your payment status. Select check for updates, then click on update.

I'm well aware that your program is not Skynet. :tongue_smilie:

I, much like you, am just double-checking my bases:

Its a free upgrade for the few on 6.0, so might as well do it.

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

Hi Conrad.
Yes the RDC folders have checksum and I miss worded my last post I meant that I selected the previous destination (the copied media) as the new source. I also selected the folder one above the RDM folder and the checksum type is the same. I did make sure that the after copy option is: "don't check destinations" but the verify all checksums button is still greyed out and I can't check the checksums.

I need to be able to check the checksums, as this is part of my workflow.
Do I need to install anything ells? Would any details about my system help figure this out?
Thanks.

There is nothing else you need. Are you on 6.1?

Going over it again:

- I have a copy at /Volumes/Drive/Day1

- I select /Volumes/Drive/Day1 as the source

- "Verify All Checksums: button becomes active, I click it.

- Checksums verified.

It really is as simple as that. You can also select the folder above the RDM folder, or the RDM folder directly.

BTW - and this is VERY important - you do NOT need to alter the "after copy" options to verify the checksums! You should always leave it at its default of "Check Destinations (default)". Changing this may lead to insecure/unverified copies! Again - the "after copy" option has nothing to do with the standalone process of manually verifying checksums.

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

I'm well aware that your program is not Skynet. :tongue_smilie:

I, much like you, am just double-checking my bases:

Yes, its a free upgrade to those already on 6.0 - just select the "check for updates" and install. I cant make it any easier. :thumbsup:

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Okay, some how I am not seeing the same results.

Red 16gb CF card through Lexar FW800 reader.

Two 7200 RPM 3.5" drives in sled enclosures connected to 17" MBP via Sonnet pro FW800 express card.

R3D data manager
2 copies with checksum : TRT 17:34

Finder
2 copies: TRT 6:13

I will do more tests on monday.

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

Red 16gb CF card through Lexar FW800 reader.

Two 7200 RPM 3.5" drives in sled enclosures connected to 17" MBP via Sonnet pro FW800 express card.

You arent replicating the circumstances and giving R3D Data Manager a fair shake.

Unlike Finder, R3D Data Manager also reads from the destinations. Because you are using Firewire 800 on the destinations, they are sharing the bandwidth during the destination verify phase. Therefore you are artificially limiting the speed that R3D Data Manager can read each destination to under 400Mbps.

In all the literature I wrote I very specifically mention discrete destinations, not shared.

Youd see faster results just by upgrading your setup to eSATA. Even if you dont, you'll see that v6.1 is about 30% faster than v5.4.

BTW, I never use FW800 for any destination. I very specifically forbid it on all shoots I work on, and if a client comes with FW800-only drives, I refuse to use them. My time is much to valuable to wait around for a $20 savings on the drives..

 

[Gunleik Groven]

BTW, I never use FW800 for any destination. I very specifically forbid it on all shoots I work on, and if a client comes with FW800-only drives, I refuse to use them. My time is much to valuable to wait around for a $20 savings on the drives..

Well, you could get paid by the hour...

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

Well, you could get paid by the hour...

Haha- would you rather I wait around for FW800 drives to finish or code 6.2? :thumbsup:

 

[J. Eric Camp]

This setup was for testing purposes. I normally do in fact use eSata.

So:

However both setups require the use of FW 800 for the CF ingest and an express card for port creation and duplication for the destinations.

The esata card creates the two esata ports and the fw800 card creates the two fw 800 ports. I don't understand how the eSata card gives you any more of a discrete location. In either set up, the source has a discrete connection to the computer and both destinations are connected to the Express card via individual cables.

Now if you want to talk about bandwidth of the connection, sure. eSata is faster. but it will be faster all around.
No doubt 6.1 is faster than 5.4 as well.

I was very excited to see the email stating that transfer time was even competitive with a standard copy. However I am not seeing that yet. I want to find it. I want R3DDM to be fast. I will test various setups. I am glad you have made it faster. Well done. I am not here to sling mud.

Of coarse I deliver my requirements to production, but I can imagine haveing the bravado to tell a production I refuse to download media and there by hold up production because I don't like the type of drives they provided.

But I digress. I will test via eSAta and certainly hope to come up with favorable findings.

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

The esata card creates the two esata ports and the fw800 card creates the two fw 800 ports. I don't understand how the eSata card gives you any more of a discrete location. In either set up, the source has a discrete connection to the computer and both destinations are connected to the Express card via individual cables.

You have to consider that R3D Data Manager is a bi-directional read, while Finder is only single direction. You hampering the destination verify by using FW800 on the destinations.

And just because its a single cable connecting the destinations, the controller SHARES the bandwidth between those single cables. So your read data rate is less than half what it would be to a single drive.

Of coarse I deliver my requirements to production, but I can imagine haveing the bravado to tell a production I refuse to download media and there by hold up production because I don't like the type of drives they provided.

Who said I hold up a production? Why do you assume that? Thats a pretty big leap of logic to assume I wont download media. If the production doesnt give me eSATA, I use my own. I dont see why thats so hard for people to comprehend. I dont hold up production, but make it faster. The last thing any producer want is someone hanging out at hour 15. So if they cant follow directions and come up with a eSATA drive, they can use mine. In addition, I have other raid systems and backup media available as part of my kit - so theres never a stoppage of work, and Im going home 15 minutes after wrap is called.

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Copy on the assumption of what seemed like implied action but is clearly not.

I understand that the express card is a single bus, my point is that an esata card is a single bus as well.

My testing will of coarse include MBP and MP configs.
MBP, express card with fw800 and eSata delivery.
MP with single drive and raid drive configs.

There are many production setups I use and I need to know the matrix of possibilities for the various setups to know which process will cost me what at what times.

Again, looking forward to and hoping for results that paint R3DDM favorably.

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

I understand that the express card is a single bus, my point is that an esata card is a single bus as well.

Actually, its not. With the FW model, the firewire ports are shared, limiting the overall read from each device in a simultaneous transfer to less than the rated speed. Each device gets and responds to all the commands on the channel, even if the commands are not meant for that device.

The eSATA card can read from each device at nearly full speed, even if at SATA1.0 spec, because the bandwidth between the card and the device is not shared. Each connection is a point to point connection between the controller and the device directly.

Try it yourself. Attach two fw/esata combo devices to a firewire card, then a esata card and test simultaneous read speeds. Your overall read will be significantly faster with eSATA. The express card is not the limiting factor, the FW spec is.

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Good to know. Looking forward to further testing.

 

[Nick Shaw]

Sonnet refer to the card as having two Firewire 800 ports, which it is easy to assume means two Firewire 800 busses. Clearly it doesn't.

So I guess there is no speed difference between connecting devices to the two ports, or daisy-chaining them from one…?

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Never assumed it was two buses. assumed the reverse. eSata has always been faster, conrad is saying that it will have exponential return via the express port

 

[Nir Shelter]

There is nothing else you need. Are you on 6.1?

Yes.

Going over it again:

- I have a copy at /Volumes/Drive/Day1

Yes.

- I select /Volumes/Drive/Day1 as the source

Yes.

- "Verify All Checksums: button becomes active, I click it.

No, it stays grayed out I can't explain it, maybe I need to reinstall R3D DMNG if possible.

It really is as simple as that. You can also select the folder above the RDM folder, or the RDM folder directly.

I know it is that simple that's why I am frustrated by this!

BTW - and this is VERY important - you do NOT need to alter the "after copy" options to verify the checksums! You should always leave it at its default of "Check Destinations (default)". Changing this may lead to insecure/unverified copies! Again - the "after copy" option has nothing to do with the standalone process of manually verifying checksums.

Well aware of that was testing it with a variety of settings.

Has anyone else had this problem? Is there such a thing as a re-install?

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

No, it stays grayed out I can't explain it, maybe I need to reinstall R3D DMNG if possible.

You can reinstall, but I suspect its not going to solve the issue. I still cant replicate it on any of my systems.

 

[Sam Crutsinger]

Anybody having Error floods with 6.1?

I'm working on a feature that's dumping about 250GB/day my way. I usually refrain from upgrading anything during a production, but the R3DDM 6.1 was too tempting.

When it works, it seems to knock it out fantastic, but I've started to occasionally get straight errors in the logs. I always get Copy OK, but then:
"Source verify after copy Error!" and "Destination verify Error!"

So I delete the folder and run it again. This time I get straight down the line:
"Source verify after copy Error!" and "Destination verify OK"

It's never some destination OK and some destination Error. It's always the same for every clip on that mag, and when I run the mag through R3DDM v5.4, green check every time. And this is on multiple systems. One's Leopard, the other Snow Leopard.

I've tried different ports, different cables, and I'm starting to track if certain mags are problem children while other mags are smooth sailing but when I run a problematic mag from 6.1 through 5.4 it gets the job done. I have 5 drives in rotation on 3 cameras. Support suggested that I should throw my Mac out if it was throwing up that many errors, but I'm not ready to blame the Mac just yet, especially since I'm seeing the same behavior on a 2nd tower. So anybody else seeing this sort of thing or is it just me?

 

[Sam Crutsinger]

Oh, and I'd like to request that eventually R3DDM should get tweaked for multithreading. I dump my footage to a RAID-6 capable of 700MB/s access and the Mac has 16 virtual cores (8 actual) available to chew up those destination checksums. It looks like the program never goes over 100% when I have 1600% available. I can understand the FW800 bottleneck, but once I get it onto the RAID, this box has seriously wide bottles.

Never satisfied. Always wanting faster. It's a testosterone thing.