RED, Please Stop Shipping the Quad Redvolt Module...

[Julio Quintana]

I agree, the deal was quite different (see Jarred post below). But it did NOT included the side handle, TI PL mount and the SSD side module....the base I/O module was there with an upgrade choice.

That is a totally fair point. The SSD side module was an unexpected extra. I believe it was done to offset the fact that we originally thought we could use our original Red Drives and Red CF cards, but later learned that we would have to purchase SSD's. I love my SSD's and could never go back to Red Drives, but it was a surprise expense and Red was generous enough to alleviate it some with the free SSD reader.

Again, I did not start this thread to question the fairness of the Stage 2/3 programs. Their fairness really is beyond question. I just think that the brilliance of RED is that it is a constantly evolving concept, which leads to amazing innovation, but every once in a while throws the customer a little off balance. This might be a case where Red could make a slight adjustment to policy and keep us on our feet.

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

Please DO take these modules and sell them yourselves;

I would hate seeing red end up slowing down all transactions because some off you now suddenly have bought into another way of getting your system powered.

i repeat, please don't bother Red with this stuff , Sell the goods, it won't take too long , and finally you might get someone who's really interested in it.

I have some coming as well, and I still believe in the redvolts. No aux power is too bad, but maby someone can find a solution for that. I prefer Red doing this.

On the other side , maby I'm wrong and it's easier to give the option to people to refuse the quad modules, and it might even speed up process not having to deal with the shippings and payments,
but please Red , chime in and give us the best answer on this,, you know what you are able to deal with ...

 

[Scott Miller]

I simply do not have the $$ to pay for it to be honest. I just moved and have not established a (real) revenue stream and other than a small buffer to pay rent/food, have nothing left to pay over $2000 :-( I thought I might, but it does not seem to be coming to fruition.

 

[Tehben Dean]

Hey here's an idea! Maybe someone can make a power OUT module that fits in a Redvolt slot...

 

[Christian Munoz D]

I believe the Stages are under special terms and conditions of sale. If so, can somebody post a source here?

I looked the sales conditions on Red.com and this is the only info about returns.


http://www.red.com/terms-conditions


7. RETURNS – Buyers must obtain a Return Merchandise Authorization ("RMA") prior to the return of any product. Cameras may only be returned for refund within ten (10) days of original delivery by Red at shipping address specified by Buyer and with less than 25 hours of run time and pass Red Inbound Quality Control ("IQC"). Accessories, except Digital Media and Batteries, may be returned for refund within ten (10) days of original delivery by Red at shipping address specified by Buyer and pass Red IQC.

7a. Factory Seal - If the factory seal on the product has been broken, a return will not be accepted, unless Red gives specific approval for such a return after evaluation (subject to $100 evaluation fee) and the returned product is subject to a 30% restocking fee. All equipment must be shipped in as new condition and in the original shipping materials. Refunds are subject to an evaluation of the merchandise upon receipt at Red as defined above, in addition to other tests to ascertain condition of returned goods. A refund less the restocking fee will be provided within thirty (30) days of completion of evaluation of goods at Red.

7b. Shipping - Buyer is responsible for shipping costs to return product to Red. For Buyer's protection, Red recommends that the Buyer uses a traceable and insurable form of mail for shipment.

7c. Buyer has ten (10) days from the date the RMA is issued to deliver the product to Red. All product not delivered ten (10) days after the RMA was issued will not be considered eligible as a return for credit and Red will return product to Buyer and Buyer will assume all shipping costs.

7d. Dangerous Goods Requirements - Buyer acknowledges that Buyer has been advised of the Dangerous Goods shipping requirements relating to lithium ion batteries. If Buyer's return includes a lithium ion battery, Buyer agrees to have the battery shipped by a certified shipper of Dangerous Goods. Buyer further agrees not to attempt to ship any lithium ion battery that has been physically damaged. Buyer agrees to indemnify and hold Red and its employees harmless from any and all liability arising from Buyer's failure to comply with this provision.

7e. Export and Re-Export Restrictions and Regulations - Buyer agrees to comply with all export and re-export restrictions and regulations of the Department of Commerce and any other United States or foreign agencies and authorities in connection with Buyer's use of RED products and services. Buyer agrees to not violate any local, state, federal or foreign laws. Buyer agrees not to transfer or authorize the transfer of any materials to a prohibited country in violation of any laws. In particular, but without limitation, the materials may not, in violation of any laws, be exported or re-exported (a) into any U.S. embargoed countries or (b) to anyone on the U.S. Treasury Department's list of Specially Designated Nationals or the U.S. Commerce Department's Table of Deny Orders or U.S. Department of Commerce Entity List of proliferation concern, or the U.S. State Department Debarred Parties List. By using any materials subject to any such restrictions and regulations, Buyer represents and warrants that Buyer is not located in, under the control of, or a national or resident of any such country or on any such list.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

While I am very sympathetic to those with had Modules that don't want/need one, here is one tiny observation for the longer term. It goes to the issue of design logic...

Some have noted that swapping out 4 REDvolts all day is inconvenient when, in fact, a dual module would work just fine. But, don't forget that RED is working on the REDvolt XL and the Quad module will only fit two of those - perfect for hot swapping back and forth, with each battery providing 60-90 minutes (once power management is put into the firmware). At that point, a Quad Module might make a lot of sense for tripod use. No? Just a thought.

(It is too bad they didn't include a power tap, though.)

 

[Andreas Mendritzki]

Hey here's an idea! Maybe someone can make a power OUT module that fits in a Redvolt slot...

Now THAT is a GREAT idea

 

[Kwan Khan]

I plan on buying the Pro I/O module as soon as it's ready. That is something that I really need.

Agreed

There is still no QUAD chargers out there..or RED VOLT XLs... So really... is it worth having. No.
But sadly. I think the QUAD MODULE will sadly sit next to my empty EPIC M pelican case and EPIC X cases gathering dust... .

Agreed

+1 with all of us selling the Quad we will deevaluate the real price of the unit.

Agreed

I agree that, rather than see a bunch of QUAD mods for sale on REDuser there might be a polite way for everyone to be happy and save a lot of shipping, etc.

Agreed

 

[Björn Benckert]

So who will give me a quad module and a module module for a good price. please pm. I still can cancel my order...

 

[Dave Weber]

You know, I was pretty pissed yesterday when my BSR told me I had to take delivery of the Quad and then i should sell it here on Reduser. But after reading this thread I had the "ah ha" moment.

If the whole stage 2 package came to me at once I wouldn't have thought twice about it. The fact that parts have trickled in and then they take the money out of my account to pay is what got me. I saw money in my account and purchased other stuff.

While I'm not thrilled to have the Quad. I understand now that it is just part of the package. It really is that simple. I'm just glad I got the Smoking deal on my stage 2! Thanks RED for taking care of us early adopters!

I'm sorry I was bitter for a bit.

 

[sergio arguello]

So who will give me a quad module and a module module for a good price. please pm. I still can cancel my order...

i will as soon as i get one of the 16 we will be getting like it or not. i will happily sell it to you...

 

[Justin O'Neill]

The quad module is really just big enough to hold 4 REDvolts and 2 REDvolt XLs. Power outs would definitely make it bigger. The beauty of this module system is RED could make another little module you can click on the back that has the power outs we all need.

It is tricky to see the true genius of the modular design with the parts trickling in like this but I think once they are all designed and shipping everything will make sense.

 

[Brent Carter]

I think we have consistently shown we listen. And have changed our minds, policy, whatever, if it makes sense. If Stage 2 or 3 was like the EPIC-M package where the sum of the parts was equal to the package price, there is no issue not taking delivery of an item - it is a true package, not a bundle (where the total is cheaper than the sum of the parts). We had a similar situation with the RED ONE Base Production Pack. It was a bundle - one part number for many parts. Some people wanted to take out the CRADLE, for example, since they would only run with CF. But on a bundle, how do give full retail value back on one part where the entire bundle is discounted? So, people realized that buying the Base Production Pack was cheaper than buying all the bits a la carte and just not using the CRADLE. So, extend that to Stage 2...

You are asking to get full retail value of credit on a part that is part of a bundle. I know for a variety of reasons, we have to break up each part of the package as its own line item for the Stage 2/3 bundle part number. Again, due to backorders, values needed for customs for each part, tracking of what shipped and what did not, we have to do so. One the invoice, the bundle "discount" or "credit" is applied to the brain while each other part has its retail value. This is not because the brain is worth "less" or anything, it is just the way we had to dial it up on the logistics side. So, if we had done it differently (20/20 hindsight, right?), we could have made brain full value and each other part of bundle a fraction of the cost. Would people be asking for a credit on the battery module if the invoice/"credit "value was $200 and actual retail value is $1950?

But, at the end of the day, what values are on the invoice for various reasons does not change the fact Stage 2/3 is a bundle for a price of $28k (before credits to keep or trade-in RED ONE). As you can imagine, the Stage 2/3 deals were done to reward customers who stood by us at the beginning. Selling these packages at this price is a loyalty-driven move, not a revenue-driven move, trust me.

And, like I mentioned before, these orders are hard orders and our supply chain was driven by them. Making part of a bundle an optional part for delivery puts us in a position where we have purchased materials to support Stage 2, 3, and new orders. We are being asked to take the first two and reduce those numbers and apply it to the third? So, we are double-accounting for the third? Not good from an inventory standpoint.

Also, please remember that every person who placed a deposit on Stage 2 or 3 did so with the battery module as part of the package. Yes, we changed some of the contents of the Stage 2 package after that to get in Ti, SSD, etc. Note that the retail value of what we put in exceeded that of what we took out. So, from a dollar-and-sense (intended), it became a better value compared to the first iteration of the Stage 2 package.

To wrap it up, I am not making excuses here. I know the fact the quad battery module and module adaptor coming out well after the rest of the package is a big driver of your unrest. I am putting myself in your shoes. I ask you take a moment to put yourself in ours. While we are one of the most open, transparent, and generous companies - we are still a business. If we make decisions that are not fiscally responsible, no one wins - not you. Not us.

* People knew battery module was part of Stage 2/3 before they ordered? CHECK
* People knew Stage 2/3 was a bundle before they ordered? CHECK
* RED considered those hard orders where a deposit was placed into their materials planning? CHECK

We are always listening. And if we feel we need to make a change that makes sense for RED and its customers, we will.

BC

 

[sergio arguello]

The quad module is really just big enough to hold 4 REDvolts and 2 REDvolt XLs. Power outs would definitely make it bigger. The beauty of this module system is RED could make another little module you can click on the back that has the power outs we all need.

It is tricky to see the true genius of the modular design with the parts trickling in like this but I think once they are all designed and shipping everything will make sense.

Another module behind the Quad module? really getiing HUGE dont you think? i like what i saw at NAB adapter I/O remote power out to a block battery seems like the studio version i would want, and handheld redvolt/sidehandle etc....

 

[Kwan Khan]

We are always listening. And if we feel we need to make a change that makes sense for RED and its customers, we will.

BC

Thanks

 

[Christian Munoz D]

Thanks Brent for clarifying things.

 

[Elsie N]

I do understand the comparison, but there is a difference in my mind. The Stage 2/3 package was designed to help current Red owners get into the DSMC system with a setup that matches the functionality of their RED ONE. ...

Julio, not trying to be argumentative here, especially since when discussing the Ti PL mount I was very much protesting just like you... so I understand your position. But looking from the outside in, I think the idea was that the Epic package would insure the camera came ready to shoot. When I received my R-1s they had no lcd to shoot with. I used an external monitor for a viewfinder. My first Epic would have been ready to shoot (tethered to a wall plug... I had to buy the AC adapter) if I owned PL mount lenses.

I don't think RED actually meant to put is in the same place with our Epics as where we left off with our R-1s.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

Another module behind the Quad module? really getiing HUGE dont you think? i like what i saw at NAB adapter I/O remote power out to a block battery seems like the studio version i would want, and handheld redvolt/sidehandle etc....

I don't think it would be much bigger than if the power outs were right on the quad module itself. There is definitely no room for ports with the quad module the size it is now...

 

[Kevin Wild]

Wow, Brent, that post made my brain hurt. Ha.

We welcome the delivery of the quad module. Just hope it ships soon!

 

[rod bradley]

I certainly understand Red's point of view and I think none of us should insist a loyalty gift horse should have its teeth examined too critically. But I think a lot of the unrest (including most of my own) derives from the long wait and when the horse finally arrives it's hobbled by an obvious design flaw that seems, well, dismaying at this point when so much brilliance has gone into the Epic. The simple fact of no D-tap or accessory power option turns a useful work horse into a kind of recalcitrant mule that balks at carrying a load.

If Red somehow came up with a design modification to correct this flaw, even if it cost us something, I think the unrest would turn into cheers. And the little nick to the gratitude of some, would be instantly healed.