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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED Helium 8K DxOMark Sensor Score: 108 — A new all-time-high score!

Samir Patel said:
Well Dragon's not so bad either... :)
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Indeed. It still holds the no.2 spot!

Let's also remember that DxOMark is different than judging a sensor subjectively. Sony and Nikon sensors are right behind the REDs, ahead of the medium format sensors. Which makes no sense in a lot of ways, because there is no way that 36x24mm sensors are better than medium format sensors for huge enlargements.
 
Karim D. Ghantous said:
Indeed. It still holds the no.2 spot!

Let's also remember that DxOMark is different than judging a sensor subjectively. Sony and Nikon sensors are right behind the REDs, ahead of the medium format sensors. Which makes no sense in a lot of ways, because there is no way that 36x24mm sensors are better than medium format sensors for huge enlargements.
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Seems kind of important to note that Epic Dragon and Weapon Helium are the only digital cinema cameras tested, so holding the top two spots on a list that doesn't even include any of their direct competitors (Alexa, F65/F55, Varicam35/LT, C300II, even Weapon Dragon) gives us very little information...

Also regarding the comparison to medium format, none of DXOmark's categories directly measure resolution. Enlargement is primarily about resolution and that is just not really what DXOmark tests because it is somewhat simpler to quantify from sensor resolution.
 
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
Seems kind of important to note that Epic Dragon and Weapon Helium are the only digital cinema cameras tested, so holding the top two spots on a list that doesn't even include any of their direct competitors (Alexa, F65/F55, Varicam35/LT, C300II, even Weapon Dragon) gives us very little information...

Also regarding the comparison to medium format, none of DXOmark's categories directly measure resolution. Enlargement is primarily about resolution and that is just not really what DXOmark tests because it is somewhat simpler to quantify from sensor resolution.
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Good points. But I offer two rebuttals:

1. The other cine cameras are not DSMCs. Not even close. Even the Alexa Mini.

2. The Leica M9's Kodak designed CCD is thought of by many photographers are superior to any modern CMOS chip, despite having less resolution than the Sony A7rII or the RED Helium.
 
Karim D. Ghantous said:
Good points. But I offer two rebuttals:

1. The other cine cameras are not DSMCs. Not even close. Even the Alexa Mini.

2. The Leica M9's Kodak designed CCD is thought of by many photographers are superior to any modern CMOS chip, despite having less resolution than the Sony A7rII or the RED Helium.
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1. I'm not entirely sure what you mean. How those are rebuttals? What's the point of telling us $30-60k cameras are #1 and #2 if #3-10 are ~$3k cameras? Seems pretty strange to even put RED on the list without any other cameras in its class, even outdated ones. Hard to get behind patting RED on the back for beating out all the DXOmarked cameras that are not really in any way RED's competition.

2. A lot of people think a lot of things. Can't say I've anything about photographers wanting to use an M9 over Phase/Hass/Canon but then I only work with photographers occasionally. I'm sure DXO may have difficulty in comparing greatly differing pixel layouts, but given even an M9 CCD is probably still bayer pattern, I don't see much reason to expect it's DXO to be quite meaningless. Are you just saying that you think DXO ratings are suspect to begin with? Or are you saying judging resolution from pixel count is problematic, if so I agree to some extent, but I'm not sure that changes the fact that DxO doesn't seem to take resolution directly into account in their testing.
 
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
What's the point of telling us $30-60k cameras are #1 and #2 if #3-10 are ~$3k cameras?
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As I explained, it's not the cost, it's the fact that no other digital cinema camera is a DSMC.

Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
Can't say I've anything about photographers wanting to use an M9 over Phase/Hass/Canon but then I only work with photographers occasionally.
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For outright quality, the medium format cameras are superior to the M9. But yes, a lot of people do prefer the M9 over the latest models from Canon and Nikon and Sony. Even the old S2 is a better camera (for image quality, not performance) than the newest DSLRs or A7 series.
 
Fantastic,
Its especially interesting to see how much better it seems to be on higher ISO.
For our slow motion work that would be interesting.
/Andreas
 
A great achievement and congrats to the whole team

Harcharan
 
AndreasOberg said:
Fantastic,
Its especially interesting to see how much better it seems to be on higher ISO.
For our slow motion work that would be interesting.
/Andreas
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Some time ago, someone posted a thread about shooting at double the normal frame rate (e.g. 48fps), then combining two frames into one. This would provide an extra stop of highlight latitude while keeping shadows clean-ish. The Helium would excel at this.
 
Congrats, RED Team!

I wonder how the VV would score on DxOMark...125+ ?
 
Karim D. Ghantous said:
Some time ago, someone posted a thread about shooting at double the normal frame rate (e.g. 48fps), then combining two frames into one. This would provide an extra stop of highlight latitude while keeping shadows clean-ish. The Helium would excel at this.
Click to expand...

Red has had this for years. It's called HDRX :ihih:
 
Karim D. Ghantous said:
Indeed. It still holds the no.2 spot!

Let's also remember that DxOMark is different than judging a sensor subjectively. Sony and Nikon sensors are right behind the REDs, ahead of the medium format sensors. Which makes no sense in a lot of ways, because there is no way that 36x24mm sensors are better than medium format sensors for huge enlargements.
Click to expand...

Huge enlargements purpose is not a part of their testing parameters, but overall sensor performance defined by sensitivity, DR and colour depth achieved.
 
Noah Yuan-Vogel said:
Seems kind of important to note that Epic Dragon and Weapon Helium are the only digital cinema cameras tested, so holding the top two spots on a list that doesn't even include any of their direct competitors (Alexa, F65/F55, Varicam35/LT, C300II, even Weapon Dragon) gives us very little information...
Click to expand...

Seeing where the Alexa's sensors land would be interesting, though mostly out of curiosity.

Also regarding the comparison to medium format, none of DXOmark's categories directly measure resolution. Enlargement is primarily about resolution and that is just not really what DXOmark tests because it is somewhat simpler to quantify from sensor resolution.
Click to expand...

That's true. What's most impressive about the Dragon and Helium tests IMO is that they're not just holding their own compared to the dSLRs which would be impressive for a cinema camera, but they're also actually holding their own among the elite of still image sensors... meaning the 16-bit imagers used in medium format camera systems.
 
Yet, when i compare my A7rii files to helium.... A7rii wins, no contest. Numbers don't really mean much.

Helium is good, but it's a motion picture camera.
 
What about the A7RII do you think is better? I definitely don't feel the same way.
 
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