RED future...

[Roberto B]

there's a silent majority who buy if affordable ($17,500) and just do not have money to invest if higher..

edit
declarations of will (= posting) do not order hundreds, thousands of cameras..

 

[Simon Valderrama]

... would be like losing the challenge

... would be like losing the challenge

raising the price would mean a lot of bad things for RED
a RED-HICLASS model would make normal RED cameras SEEM flawed, not suited for PRO work, even if it ISN'T true.
Not everyone in the industry has the technical knowledge to understand what tool is right for the job, if they have the money they want the pricey one just to feel safe.
This would kill regular 17K RED for motion pictures and hi-profile commercial work.
If a 24K RED comes out, i could afford it and probably i would buy it, but things wouldn't be the same.
It would be RED without revolution. Kind of wake up from a beautiful dream and go back to usual business. No changing the world.
If you have the money, you get the good one, if not, here's the prosumer.
This is SO Sony.

I want the best, that's why i already wired my deposit for my own RED.
I if knew a PRO version of RED was coming out later i would have waited for the 24K RED.
A PRO RED would make me feel really really bad now ...

 

[Gordon Prince]

A few think that can think for thousands of them. Moreover, they think that they are more than ONLY a few.

 

[Simon Valderrama]

a note

a note

What i just said refers to an hypothetic scenario where a 24K RED/PRO RED comes out along with the regular one.
This scenario would become also real if newer REDs will cost in the 24K range, as older ones would be perceived as different.

This means that what i suggest for the future would be a kind of slight price update that would feel more like and adjustment rather than a PRO version that could make previous RED cameras perceived as a different project and different target market.
kind of 19K?

RED should stay RED. no RED PRO and RED EX. :glare:

As said in earlier post RED should make more profit in all related RED accessories and products. If thousands and thousands buy 17K RED because it's affordable, this means thousands and thousands of matteboxes, FF, primes etc ... because every indies satisfied by their affordable digital cinema solution will necessarily become fanboys.

... as i've become. :whistling:

 

[Rocco Schult]

You're completely wrong. This $17,500.00 figure is what brought many of us here.

I think the price of 19.500 would have brought nearly the same amount of people here. As long as stays under 20k.

raising the price would mean a lot of bad things for RED
a RED-HICLASS model would make normal RED cameras SEEM flawed, not suited for PRO work, even if it ISN'T true....

RED should stay RED. no RED PRO and RED EX. :glare:

As said in earlier post RED should make more profit in all related RED accessories and products...

I think a 435 or a 535 doesn't make a 235 obsolete. None of them makes another absolete, because they have different uses.
Everybody wants that this cam is the can-do-it-all. But it can't. It can be a lot, but e.g. it can't be a highspeed cam or a 65mm. There are enough reasons to build another one.
A problem occurs only when you would call the other one 'PRO'.

The accessories have to be aligned with the rest, because RED is a system and a philosophy. Not necessarily my ideal, though I welcome and profit from it, like so many others. As its connected, you would sacrifice the philosophy, the ideal what RED stands for.

 

[Roberto B]

yes.. we discuss different business philosophies or market positions for Red.. not change$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

edit
i mean.. under $20k is what all.. i mean.. not a few.. the majority.. are talking about.. right?

 

[Brook Willard]

After finding Brook's post and reading it:

Some are already done.
Some are almost done
Some are in development
Some are on our list
Some are too expensive to do and stay at $17,500
A few will not be done.

Hope that helps...

Jim

Awesome. I figured I'd put it all out there. I know not everything is realistic at this price point and at this place in the game, but it's great to hear that lots of it is already in the oven.

And do you have a camera on order?

Heheh... once I get rent and bills a little more under control, I'll talk to you.

 

[der4]

My suggestion is make three different cameras.

1) 8K/4K/2K resolution camera. We could call it the "MacRed. j/k" This could have the additional items for those who have the money to burn. It also could shoot 2K files at much faster frame rates.
2) RED ONE. $17,500.00. Economic but still a KILLER camera.
3) 2K RED "Pocket" or "Mini" Priced for the sub $10,000.00 market. Then the future filmmakers have a shot at RED. Of course I would consider this a professional camera. Not a prosumer camera.

And no I don't have a camera on order either. I can't afford it yet. I'm hoping you release a sub $10,000.00 camera at NAB this year. Even if it's just a reservation approach until the RED ONE orders are delivered to the original reservation holders. This way I can buy RED instead of the Sony HDCAM EX.

I believe raising the RED ONE price would be a very bad PR move.

Great job guys!

 

[Brent J. Craig]

Add my vote for a Red Pro. The $17,500 camera seems to be a perfect fit with the indie and smaller budget market. They get a great camera with unheard of features that they can purchase outright for about the cost of one indie feature camera rental.

The higher-end professional rental market needs a bit more:
-Mil-spec electronics and components that take abuse, both environmental and physical.
-Professional, industry-standard connectors
-Redundancy in the places where things can go wrong, or very quick modular fixes that can be performed on set
-Mounting holes everywhere
-Ability to use existing infrastructure such as block batteries and normal BNC's
-and everything else Brook said in post 92!

The great thing is that as long as the two cameras continued to share a common platform, time and money that went into the development of the Pro would also benefit the users of the less expensive camera.

People have to remember that in the rental market, cameras that even partially compete with Red rent for $1500 per day, not including a $100,000 recorder.

Rental houses are already talking about strapping on kludgy breakout boxes and downconverters to the Red One. This will result in each place offering slightly different cameras with different features and connectors. You will never know what you are getting when you rent a 'Red'. It would be so much nicer to have a rentable camera direct from the source. People that need one will pay the price.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Rental houses are already talking about strapping on kludgy breakout boxes and downconverters to the Red One. This will result in each place offering slightly different cameras with different features and connectors. You will never know what you are getting when you rent a 'Red'. It would be so much nicer to have a rentable camera direct from the source.

So are private owners, I don't think that's a surprise.

You could choose to generally rent from the same company if you like the way they've set-up the camera in particular.

But I agree that if everyone is doing the same sorts of modifications, it probably should be added to the basic camera.

I don't think RED should get into the rental business themselves, it creates possible conflicts of interest and competition with their buyers who want to rent their cameras.

 

[Zack Birlew]

If there was a significant update that required a more expensive RED, such as an 8K sensor or even a RED with all the flash options already built in, I could understand a price bump. However, what would kill the camera for me would be if the body itself cost $30,000+. Already it's proving difficult to decide between what is neccessary and what is luxury. A left hand handle for the base production pack is a neccessity, the full RED Cage setup is not. The RED lenses alone are going to bring the price up quite a bit. I'm heavily weighing the possibility of going with the RED lenses based on quality assurance and ease of use versus going with a set of Zeiss ZF still lenses. What I have to wait for is a test of the Nikon mount before I make that huge decision. My problem? My camera could be ready by January, which is supposedly when the Nikon mount is going to be ready. Because of that being in consideration, other things have to be cut back. I need the RAW port. I honestly need it for what I want to do. But based on my current situation (ie. waiting to see if I get into graduate school or not), it may be the smarter choice to go with the CF option so I can save a little up front and have the RAW port in mind for when I actually need it. The RED RAID is also in the wings for use with the RAW port so I have to factor that in as well. Based on what has been speculated, a 2K RED Pocket Cam isn't an option, I need 4K and perhaps even 4.5K.

The reason I want to go with the RED is because it is the most bang for my buck compared with any camera on the market. ANY CAMERA. If I was sure I didn't need all of the RED's features, I would be perfectly happy with a Sony EX1 or even an HVX200, but I know I need more than 720P and 1080P prosumer cam can give.

The RED is already such a great buy, Jim, if you honestly had to raise the price a few thousand dollars to make the camera even better, to add something that you never knew you could so early in the game, then by all means add it on and take all the time you need. All I ask is that you make sure that it is something that is absolutely worth our while.

 

[Joe Taylor]

"keep telling us what you need" Jim Jannard

"keep telling us what you need" Jim Jannard

**This is a quote from Jim's Latest Thread**

Okay!!! Here is what I am dying for from an affordable HD camera.

A FULLY FUNCTIONAL INTERVELOMETER WITH TIME-EXPOSURE ABILITIES.

If RED doesn't do, the competition will.

 

[Jarred Land]

thats an easy one...

 

[Oliver Koeppel]

Alrighty.

Please get simultaneous outputs enabled yesterday.
Please get us our EVFs.
Please kill the sensor protect and its flare.
Please kill the moiré/OLPF flare [fixed by the new OLPF?]

Those are all givens, but one can't help but poke and prod at them as much as possible.

Moving on...

A larger LCD would be awesome. A 720p [or 1280x848 to match the EVF] panel that is as daylight viewable as the LCD but in the 7-8" range. It should, obviously, use the same port as the LCD currently.

Make the LCDs out of metal.

Put some 3/8-16 holes on the accessories. So far I can only find one on the universal brackets. These suckers should be *everywhere*. We can always adapt down to 1/4-20, but we can never scale up to 3/8-16. Film goodies generally use 3/8-16 screws instead of 1/4-20.

Give me a witness mark on the body.

Put a focus hook *on top* of the top handle. Putting a screw in there is pretty close to the focal plane, but not close enough for taping out lenses.

Make some button lock key combination or recess the buttons.

Make a sleep mode so I don't have to power down for a battery swap [though I'm liking the improved boot time in build 11].

Let me customize the "1" and "2" user buttons. I don't need a white balance button on a RAW camera... I need access to my exposure tools.

I'd love a 1:1 pixel zoom. The 2x zoom is a great start, but there should be a second level of zoom available... particularly if we're checking collimation.

Make condoms for the accessory ports so I don't have to tape them up.

Seal the body innards a little better if possible. If I feel air blowing out of the CF module, I'm guessing that means that there is some direct access from the CF module opening to the camera innards to the cooling area on the bottom of the body.

Make me a Sharp Max that doesn't cost half as much as the camera.

Make your V-mounts out of metal [aka IDX] instead of plastic so they don't break as easily.

Get in touch with Anton Bauer to create an intelligent AB solution that'll communicate with the camera.

Build some XLR power cables so we don't have to.

Put some sort of fuse/protection in the camera so when the XLR cable isn't wired properly, the camera doesn't explode.

Keep the 4-pin LEMOs and the 232 LEMOs in stock so I don't have to order them from a third party that'll take a month.

Swap the "Temp OK" indicator out for a temperature gauge of some kind.

Get the lens mount contacts sorted out so they don't keep getting destroyed. The port cap needs to have some cutout so it doesn't constantly apply pressure to them.

Make the rollout indicator look slightly less apocalyptic.

Work some magic voodoo on how the compression reacts to the blue channel noise. Increase the data rate.

Give some indicator of when the histogram/zebras/false color/stoplight is referencing the current ASA vs. what the sensor is actually seeing.

Make the histogram/zebras/stoplight reference a higher resolution than they currently reference if it's technically possible.

Work some magic on the CF module so putting a CF in doesn't occasionally kill the camera.

Add some friction surface to the handheld grips so they don't rotate around whatever rod or mount they're mounted to. Translation: rosettes!

Find a way [if technically possible] to make footage readable if a proper end-of-clip isn't written to the file. That is, if the camera was rolling and it suddenly lost power, lost communication with the CF or was literally destroyed by an explosion, the footage would still be readable up to that point.

See if you can't add a "time remaining" meter to the battery status indicator on the camera. I know how long the camera lasts with the accessories I have now, but when we have it running with the EVF, LCD, FIZ, CineTape, etc... I just won't know. A vague approximation of the remaining time would help.

Get rid of that red bar across the screen with the focus assist enabled. You can indicate its position with subtle icons outside of the recording area, but nobody can operate the camera with that big red stripe in the way.

Get the LUT thing up to speed.

Here's my dream: a clean, pretty output in the EVF for the operator [similar to what we get out of the HD-SDI Preview output today]. Simultaneously, I'd love a feature-loaded assistant cameraman's screen on the LCD. Show all of the important camera information [what's currently on the LCD plus a few other goodies... customizable] plus a live feed of what the camera is currently seeing... independently zoomable and aimable. Keep the preview output looking how it's looking, with a simultaneous 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 clean [no look-around] output from the appropriate ports. All of this magic happening at once... holy crap. It'd blow me away.

But in the short term... just get multiple outputs enabled. But aim high.

It's a long list, but I'm sure I've still forgotten a few things. I don't want it to sound like these requests are criticisms... what you guys have done so far is remarkable. I just can't help but wanting more.

I'm sure I'll think of more ideas as time goes on.

It seems like Brook wrote down what most of redusers are thinking about things to be changed. At this list I think it´s not a question of price for the Red One. This camera is modular. If it´s needed raise price for accessory, like metallbased v-mounts, or better red-flash module.
I have sorted and coloured Brookes statements. Yellow for hardware/camerabody, red for software, green for accessories.
Most of the red items are not rocket science and are not expensive.
Red items are softwarebased. Some are simple, others are more tricky. How about different firmwares? Basic fw for nearly all users, another version with more features to buy in red store.
Green accesory items could get redesigned and sold for more money.

Keep red modulebased. So everyone can buy what he needs and can afford.
And btw raising price will be best food for all these ancient vaporwarebelievers.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

Jim, did you notice David Newman's innovative idea he presented couple weeks ago? He suggested to export the 4K raw signal through the HD-SDI output. As a result one could store and compress the raw signal at will outside the camera. Such an option made it possible to add a backup device along the camera if something went wrong for instance with the CF card.

 

[Elizabeth]

A FULLY FUNCTIONAL INTERVELOMETER WITH TIME-EXPOSURE ABILITIES.

thats an easy one...

Jarred, just to clarify ... is that a YES?

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

In the other post -which has now runaway- I forgot to ask for a paint box in the event we don't get .look files created and loaded into the camera.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

I posted in the other sub-forum but just so it gets seen:

We need a field-replaceable CF slot so when pins get broken (as they are on several Reds) we aren't totally SOL.

 

[Stephen Williams]

I posted in the other sub-forum but just so it gets seen:

We need a field-replaceable CF slot so when pins get broken (as they are on several Reds) we aren't totally SOL.

Hi Shawn,

It's relatively easy for anyone who has replaced a hard drive on a laptop.

Stephen

 

[Casey Green]

Also, I thought the ability to attach a USB Keyboard (or wireless USB keyboard) would be a great way to alternatively control the joystick and make clip naming / management easier.

Also along those lines... (but requiring more development): an application that runs on a MacBook Pro or PC Laptop that links you into your Camera to see the Media and manage the clips on the card/drives remotely. You could then simply attach a USB WiFi network adapter onto the RED and log into it.