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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Dragon Dynamic Range ++

great, great shot....
but i have to say that out of everything i have seen from dragon so far, this looks the least convincing...not sure if it is the grade or what the starting point was....and at 1000iso...not so sure....
there is a lot of noise in that elephant....and considering that i am only looking at a small(ish) jpeg, i am a little worried how big and strong the noise actually is....i understand that this was probably pulled out of black (meaning deep, deep shadows) and from a grey-ish brown area (the elephant skin)....
i usually don't agree with comparing d800 (or whatever) with epic or dragon but when the claim is 16+ stops, i have to look at what is possible in deep, deep shadow recovery with some still cameras claiming 14 stops....
i am still very excited about dragon and glad i got on the list early but i hope that this really is still beta....
 
most-impressive-darth-vader.jpg
 
Ian Vertovec said:
Sorry if it looks a little too pushed for some people. Tom asked me to go for it to see what was really down there, just part of taking the Dragon out for a spin.
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That's definitely what I figured. And it's still a pretty awesome image! It won't be easy to find situations where you can really utilize all of this range, but finding them is gonna be part of the fun of owning a Dragon.
 
Tony Harris said:
Tom this stuff shows what you can do after a shoot which is great but the raw footage out of the camera with video is on this thread ...Collister Dragon Test for ASC...colored stills and making people wait in my opinion is not cool. I only speak for those like me that want to see it now and it looks like someone has beat you to the punch. ( Collister Dragon Test for ASC )
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You certainly don't speak for me. Tom doesn't have to show us anything if he doesn't want to. Plus, he's got a real job too. Not sure what your hurry is, it's not like you can buy it anytime soon.
 
Look don't give me the kiss butt attitude, if you aren't like me then say nothing...you guys have been sweating him for more and more. So make no excuse on time of delivery for Dragon footage while you question his still images, how long must people wait when you have a Dragon to test for a week?? short films etc could have been dropped by now if it were me. don't look at the video.. just sit back and wait.
 
Tom will post when he's ready. He doesn't owe us ANYTHING. He's got a job to do, has had the misfortune of being sick. He can take as long as he wants. I want to see the footage he's READY to post. Not the footage he's RUSHING.

For all we know LIGHTIRON is grading his entire test! Haha!
 
Let's play nice, guys. Not one person has any idea what another REDUSER's schedule is or what they are dealing with.
 
Amazing, I love it. I cannot wait to see 4K versions of this stuff. Now if I just had a 4K projector or monitor or TV... or better yet an entire holodeck.
 
My bad Tom.. I was pumped about the Dragon footage... I will remove the post from your thread.
 
Ian Vertovec said:
Sorry if it looks a little too pushed for some people. Tom asked me to go for it to see what was really down there, just part of taking the Dragon out for a spin.

That's why it probably looks a little un-photographic. As David Mullen said, when you have that many stops to compress, you have to do some tricks to make something that will both show dynamic range and not be totally milky.

We just did some keys and windows on a 16bit log debayer. Nothing too fancy.
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Hey Ian,
No offense meant by my post. Love the look, was just curious about the blue noise in the blacks of the elephant. Looking at it from a colorist pov, what was your impression of the dynamic range compared to the digital cinema cameras you've colored in the past and how pliable are the images in relation to the mx or say the f65? Thanks for your time.
 
Häakon said:
Hey Tom! Thanks for taking the time to share all of your wonderful findings. I think you're the perfect person to break Dragon in and put it through its paces.

I am curious though... some of the shots I'm seeing from Dragon have an HDR/tonemapped look to them... perhaps it's just that there's more dynamic range available so the images are lending themselves more to that kind of look, but the thing I never liked about such shots is that the relationship between the luminosity of objects changes unnaturally in the frame. For instance, say you shot bracketed exposures with a dSLR and in post you're able to pull down an otherwise blown out sky - but in doing so, the sky now becomes darker than other parts of the frame which shouldn't be brighter than the area that you're editing. It becomes unnatural and frankly really strange looking to me. I don't really understand why some people are drawn to that look, but there do seem to be a lot of fans out there. Do you think there's some kind of magic sauce manipulation going on within Dragon to eek out maximum DR by shifting values around, or does the footage you've been working with feel natural to you? I haven't seen enough footage (or better yet worked with it) to get a good enough feel about it, but what I have seen has given me some pause. Just curious on your thoughts.

Thanks again for taking the time; I know how consuming it is and we all appreciate it!
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No magic sauce. Everything feels totally natural. If the shot looks "unnatural" at all, it's because there is a ton of info in the RAWs, and I asked Ian to dig it all out for this DR test shot.
 
I was just gonna say it should be obvious that whith the release of a camera with TONS more DR we are bound see grades that SHOW that DR...

And I find it annoying that so many don't understand what grading does... This is a camera forum...

Very nice shot Tom.
 
Tom Lowe said:
No magic sauce. Everything feels totally natural. If the shot looks "unnatural" at all, it's because there is a ton of info in the RAWs, and I asked Ian to dig it all out for this DR test shot.
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I don't think it looks unnatural at all. If anything looks gorgeous. Although if I may say so I would pull down the sky a little as it has all the information there to make a kick ass sunset sky. But I do see that this is a 'test'.
 
I love this shot. I really cannot comment on ANY dragon footage I've seen online cause I am on a computer, looking at very compressed images. So making any judgements based on this would be foolish to me.

However I do know a pretty shot when I see one.. You da man Tom.

Jay
 
I love this photo.
 
The great advance with Dragon is that the choice of where lies the blacks, grays and whites is in your hands. If you want a flat image using all the DR or a crush the blacks and make a slow white fall off it's your choice.

Now, like for slow mo, it can become a trend that pushes the picture makers in one direction. Who will use a Dragon and make a "bleach by pass" look? Or a 6 stop reversal effect? Dynamic range is a technical improvement that can led picture makers in one direction. Now I understand the point of this thread : to show dynamic rang. But I hope that picture makers won't forget what a picture is.

Thanks for your test, and the beautiful picture Tom.

Patrick
 
This photo is my desktop background in my 13" laptop. Any chance you may give us anything in 2K for my imac?

It looks to me like a Gregory Colbert still, yet real (if that even makes sense).
 
Matt Ryan said:
Hey Ian,
No offense meant by my post. Love the look, was just curious about the blue noise in the blacks of the elephant. Looking at it from a colorist pov, what was your impression of the dynamic range compared to the digital cinema cameras you've colored in the past and how pliable are the images in relation to the mx or say the f65? Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

Hey Matt,

It's still pretty early to make any definitive statements. Dragon today is better then the Epic MX in most every way. How much better or how it compares to cameras from other manufacturers is quite subjective.

One thing is for sure, a 4K DCP from a 6K master is pretty mind blowing. :)
 
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