Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Real camera tests...

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'd be curious to see some sort of workflow survey in the feature and television industry... in particular, since anyone shooting ProRes on an Alexa, or HDCAM-SR tape on an F35, or R3D on Reds, etc. -- and in Log or RAW to boot -- and since 90% of the editing rooms use AVID (that's a wild guess), then everyone needs to deliver Rec.709 gamma footage in the DNxHD codec for offline editing... so the question is:

Is there any time difference between converting ProRes 4444 LogC vs. 4K R3D RAW to DNxHD with Rec.709 gamma? Are there any cost differences? Can all the big post houses in the major production cities do either type of conversion? If the answer is that the time and costs are the same, and all the post houses can handle either, then it's a myth that shooting ProRes 4444 HD on an Alexa is somehow more post-friendly than shooting 4K R3D RAW on a Red camera.
 
From reading this thread one can foresee how priceless this test could turn out to be. What if its RED who's calling, would that turn it to be impartial? Dont think so. Everyone could learn so much from this test. Acknowledging the flaws each camera system has helps figure out which ones serves you best. Not everything works for everyone, no matter how hard you try to make them happy. There is no flawless system, but as I see it there is only one company trying to put that to the test and see what happens.
I like that. Please let us know what companies commit. Thanks.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
I'd be curious to see some sort of workflow survey in the feature and television industry... in particular, since anyone shooting ProRes on an Alexa, or HDCAM-SR tape on an F35, or R3D on Reds, etc. -- and in Log or RAW to boot -- and since 90% of the editing rooms use AVID (that's a wild guess), then everyone needs to deliver Rec.709 gamma footage in the DNxHD codec for offline editing... so the question is:

Is there any time difference between converting ProRes 4444 LogC vs. 4K R3D RAW to DNxHD with Rec.709 gamma? Are there any cost differences? Can all the big post houses in the major production cities do either type of conversion? If the answer is that the time and costs are the same, and all the post houses can handle either, then it's a myth that shooting ProRes 4444 HD on an Alexa is somehow more post-friendly than shooting 4K R3D RAW on a Red camera.
Click to expand...

This would be really nice!

There are obvious differences to what the prores delivers to what the r3d delivers, but honestly, that is actually a different discussion.
 
My feeling is that the more tests done by more people in more situations just adds to the pot and one can begin to spot common trends and results, but someone will always accuse individual tests of being flawed or biased. Not that they shouldn't be done, otherwise there won't be enough total tests to get some sort of average result over time, but one should have a thick skin if one is going to do a camera comparison test.

I doubt a lot of camera manufacturers are going to leap at Red's offer anymore than if it was Sony who issued the challenge.

Speaking of tests, however, I'd love to see a 4K test between 65mm film, Red Epic, Sony F65, Phantom 65, and whoever else has a 4K or higher camera, all finished to 4K and projected in 4K (or filmed out to IMAX...). Though I suspect some IMAX production companies have already done such a test.
 
The only really "scientific" tests are the charts type tests.

My feeling, though - is that they only tell half the story, and that the practical tests give as much info about practical use.
From the charts, you can get an idea of what to expect.

When tracking someone with deep focus in a forest on a sunny day, you kinda get additional, but unfortunatelly not totally repeatadble info.

But it is quite valuable, too...
 
Jim, maybe you should send them a formal invite....how are they going to know you are inviting them if not? Not all of them are reading reduser... :) it would be indeed a great test!!!
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Speaking of tests, however, I'd love to see a 4K test between 65mm film, Red Epic, Sony F65, Phantom 65, and whoever else has a 4K or higher camera, all finished to 4K and projected in 4K (or filmed out to IMAX...). Though I suspect some IMAX production companies have already done such a test.
Click to expand...

+1.
 
I could read everything so I don't know if it's been mentioned but, besides hoping everything will take up the challange, I hope the new BMC gets invited too: )
 
I agree with David that the more tests the better, we learn something from one test to explore when making the next.

I suggest four tests per year so we can keep the cameras current and have a wide range of DPs and subjects involved.



Mike Brennan
 
This is like the Pacquiao vs Mayweather fight for cameras. Everybody wants to see it but I don't think it's ever going to happen. No matter how much you call them out =)
 
Jannard said:
This might be a good time to do a workflow test also... ?

We have already had a few ask for more time (a delay in the date) so that some new cameras could be included in the test.

Jim
Click to expand...

If they keep asking for "just a little more time", you might just need to introduce them to a Dragon.
 
As someone who has invested a lot of time, money and creativity in Red, I would much rather know the full brainpower and resources for the company are firmly dedicated in the solidification and innovation of new and better tools.

Testing is fine, but tests out of vengeance or for marketing purposes seems unfocused and unprofessional.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
I'd be curious to see some sort of workflow survey in the feature and television industry... in particular, since anyone shooting ProRes on an Alexa, or HDCAM-SR tape on an F35, or R3D on Reds, etc. -- and in Log or RAW to boot -- and since 90% of the editing rooms use AVID (that's a wild guess), then everyone needs to deliver Rec.709 gamma footage in the DNxHD codec for offline editing... so the question is:

Is there any time difference between converting ProRes 4444 LogC vs. 4K R3D RAW to DNxHD with Rec.709 gamma? Are there any cost differences? Can all the big post houses in the major production cities do either type of conversion? If the answer is that the time and costs are the same, and all the post houses can handle either, then it's a myth that shooting ProRes 4444 HD on an Alexa is somehow more post-friendly than shooting 4K R3D RAW on a Red camera.
Click to expand...

This would be informative.
 
Jannard said:
This might be a good time to do a workflow test also... ?

We have already had a few ask for more time (a delay in the date) so that some new cameras could be included in the test.

Jim
Click to expand...

absolutely, jim. that's where you need to win. consequently, that's where you will win. better, faster, stronger.
 
Hmmm, seems to me that the only “real” camera test is the one done by your creative team with concerns to your specific project, but maybe that’s just me. I personally rely on nothing less for my own projects.
 
Fight of the Titans :

Genesis Versus Epic Versus F65

Scarlet Versus Alexa Versus c500

That would be awesome !!!

Made by each company with his own DOP and technical Team on the same lighted environement :Same story , different camera and technical team!!!

 
I love it Jim. I know many dislike the "macho" attitude, but I think the western world is lacking it. It is good to have that much confidence in your products.

By the way, the cheaper smaller companies would be the biggest winner in this. Blackmagic and Digital Bolex if they decided to participate. Going in knowing full well where their camera stands, but can point to the price and performance comparision.
 
PS By any weird "happenstance" will the Epic-D(ragon) be making an appearance.

star_wars_its_a_trap.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top