Prometheus...

[Brad Webb]

Prometheus was both fantastic and terrible at the same time. The elements that worked in the film where damn near perfect. Visuals, sound design, ,scope, details, the creation of a foreign planet, intrigue, and pretty much all of Act I and beginning of Act II. All were executed flawlessly.

Where this movie failed it failed big. Air ball whiff big. Character motivation, that was killer. People acting completely wrong just to move the plot along. The worst offenders being the biologist and geologist suddenly going from fraidy cats to brave men in dealing with a giant penis monster. Afraid of 2,000 year old dead things, but willing to stick their face into the mouth of a weird alien snake. Also being lost in a place you had a 3D map of was just stupid. Scientist being too stupid to leave helmets on in a foreign place.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Also being lost in a place you had a 3D map of was just stupid. Scientist being too stupid to leave helmets on in a foreign place.

Please correct me but the only people with access to the map were on board The Prometheus, no? Didn't they have radio trouble during a sand storm that prevented them from locating them or bring them out? That may be cliché, but it's an explanation.

The stupidity of the helmet thing is undeniable. Shaw was entirely arrogant. She was stupid. She was a religious zealot; a crusader. The idea that she could endure abdominal surgery and run, jump, climb and fight a giant god of war without her entrails falling out is spectacularly unbelievable. Do you think that an accident or is she is an exaggerated super human, mythological hero character? You decide.

Edit: Maybe taking her helmet off was her gesture of faith, to prove to herself and to her God that she trusted that he/she/it would protect her... Proof that she had resolved her crisis of faith and was willing to give herself over entirely. Just a thought.

Maybe writing the geologist to his death, lost in a cavern could be interpreted as a referendum on our reliance on technology? Maybe it's a stretch. You decide.

 

[Peter Franzen]

Obviously it's an action/thriller/etc. film and there needs to be a decent body count-- I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that it feels like most of the characters' motivations were left on the cutting-room floor. Everyone has some kind of implied backstory, and when I watch a movie one of the metrics that I use to judge it is how well the characters stay true to their motivations. I mean, the geologist either invented or developed the mapping drones (or at the very very least he knew how to set them up and use them) so he was clearly intelligent enough to understand their capabilities-- showing him getting lost in the next scene simply doesn't make sense. Likewise, a biologist who runs away from a dead body and then reaches out to pet a newly-discovered vagina on a penis reptile (thank you H.R. Giger!) is just too contradictory to accept.

And the really frustrating bit is that there are moments in the film where great characters do shine through. The captain calling out "Hands in the air everyone!" was easily the best moment in the film for the ship's crew-- it showed camraderie, trust, understanding, faith in the mission, etc. It's just too bad that there was so little of that elsewhere.

 

[Darren Orange]

I am pretty sorry but the movie sucked. I really don't know how to nicely put that. I can be critical of the film in detail if I wanted but I could go on constantly almost in every scene. The script is a complete failure, yes agreed far worse than TF2's script.

It has some people torn due to the director, and I have mad respect for the director. When in just about every scene you are thinking how stupid are these people, you lose focus on the point.

And why in the hell while all hell is breaking lose out side is everyone going off to get hammered and get some booty? What is wrong with these people. Why the hell is their alcohol on the ship? Oh and stomach muscles...

Also super smart alien dude leaves his crashed ship to chase some one outside( I thought they need air like us to breath right?) to go after this chick....rather than getting another ship and continuing his trip?

Exploding heads...wanting to pet random life form that is hissing at you....I don't like geese hissing at me, but this crazy son of a bitch wants to try to pet random snake alien that is hissing and acting obviously aggressive...

Sorry the movie was stupid, but I still respect Scott he made the best he could of a crap script.

 

[Scott Crawley]

I hope I'm not dominating the discussion. Thank you all for challenging me to think about it. This is great fun. You guys rock.

 

[Andrew Rieger]

Ok seriously, let's stop arguing in circles about weather or not this movie was any good or not. Some loved it, others did not. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion so lets stop with the stupid banter. No minds are going to be changed here.

How about we throw around theories instead.

I'll start.

Is it possible that Vickers was an android as well? Think about it seriously.

 

[Brad Webb]

Ok seriously, let's stop arguing in circles about weather or not this movie was any good or not. Some loved it, others did not. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion so lets stop with the stupid banter. No minds are going to be changed here.

How about we throw around theories instead.

I'll start.

Is it possible that Vickers was an android as well? Think about it seriously.

I don't think so. She was cold and withdrawn but not an android. Pretty sure she had sex with Janek, and it seemed like they had a little bit of history together. Also there was an interview that Lindelof did with MTV where he said she was not.

Interview Link here
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1687022/prometheus-secrets-damon-lindelof.jhtml

FTA:

Vickers. Yes, she does look like David. Yes, this was intentional. What better way to piss off your daughter than to build the male equivalent of her? But enough about daddy issues (seriously, Lindelof, we get it!), allow me to answer your question. Is she a robot?
She is not.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Geez Andrew, that is condescending. =-)

Seriously, I thought that is what we were doing. I hope I'm right about that.

I have been considering if Vickers is a 'bot, and I'm currently thinking no. My list of reasons is growing. On Tom's thread someone (I think it was you) pondered why her name is different from her father. The most obvious reason might be that she is a child of divorce. That would seem to fit with the dysfunctional relationship she has with her father. (The fact that her dad cares more for a robot than his own daughter not withstanding.)

 

[Andrew Rieger]

Here is my reasoning for at least suspecting Vickers of android status.

1. Last name - She calls Weyland father but her last name is Vickers rather than Weyland.

2. Age difference - According to Alien canon, Peter Weyland was born in 1990 which would make him 103 at that time of the Prometheus mission. Vickers looks to be in her mid 30's (Theron is 36) and that would mean that Weyland was in his late 60's or early 70's when she was born which is technically possible but most men aren't having children at that age.

3. Cryosleep - Vickers is the first to wake and seems to need no assistance after waking, while everyone is is throwing up and drinking fluids. She is also doing push when the others can barely stand. Furthermore, in later movies, the hidden androids also accompanied their human crew members in cryosleep to hide the fact that they were androids.

4. Janek reaction - Vickers is cold and strictly professional the entire mission but when the captain jokes about her being a robot, her entire personality takes a 180 and she has implied sex with him. In the Blade Runner universe, some androids were created as "pleasure models" so Vickers could technically be capable of having intercourse with a human. Her actions could have been designed to eliminate any suspicion of the fact that she was an android.

5. The Medi-pod - The Medi-pod in Vickers room indicates that it is calibrated for a male occupant. Most say that this device was for Weyland only but it seems odd that it wouldn't be able to take care of Vickers without workarounds. Unless Vicker's didn't need medical assistance because she was an android.

6. Strength - Vickers easily throws David against the wall in anger but androids in the Alien universe are quite strong and this would be quite hard to do for a normal person. The android in the first Alien film needed to be restrained by multiple people when it freaked out.

7. David's relationship - David refers to Vickers as "mom" and while this phrase is sometimes used to describe female superiors, it is still odd for David to call her that. Is Vickers an earlier or later generation? Was there something more David's comment about Vickers needing to "Try Harder"? There seems to be some kind of sibling rivalry between the two. This could be seen in the bit where David turns off his camera, preventing Vickers from seeing the Alien control room and she comments about him "cutting her off". David also seems to like to push her buttons and she is not particularly nice to him. Android jealousy?

8. Death - she is crushed to death so we really have no idea how she would have reacted if she was infected or impregnated by the biological threat present on the planet. As far as I know, she was the only one not killed by the Engineer's other than the suicide pilots.

9. Intelligence - Is is just me or are Vickers and David the only characters capable of making rational choices?

Finally, I don't trust Damon Lindelof and neither should you. Scott tried to dodge questions about Deckard being a replicant as well so really, we will never know unless she is brought back in the Prometheus sequel.

 

[Leo Ticheli]

Is not the Director, especially when he is also the Producer, responsible for everything in a movie? If so, the credit or discredit must rest upon Ridley Scott's shoulders. For example, could he have axed the "try to pet the scary as hell alien snake creature," and instead have it suddenly burst out and grab it's victim? Seems more suspenseful and frightening to me and certainly less, bolt-from-the-theater because this is ridiculously stupid. If indeed the script was a sorry piece of sophomoric, meretricious tripe, Mr. Scott should have torn it to pieces and had it rewritten after exiling the alleged writer to Siberia.

Good shooting and best regards,
Leo

 

[Scott Crawley]

Here is my reasoning for at least suspecting Vickers of android status.

1. Last name - She calls Weyland father but her last name is Vickers rather than Weyland.

Again, Divorce? Maybe the old man out lived her mother and she took her mom's maiden name out of spite. Maybe he never married her mother. Maybe in the near future more women will stop taking their husband's surname.

2. Age difference - According to Alien canon, Peter Weyland was born in 1990 which would make him 103 at that time of the Prometheus mission. Vickers looks to be in her mid 30's (Theron is 36) and that would mean that Weyland was in his late 60's or early 70's when she was born which is technically possible but most men aren't having children at that age.

A man of means who wants to live forever might just have children until his dick falls off. It's plausible.

3. Cryosleep - Vickers is the first to wake and seems to need no assistance after waking, while everyone is is throwing up and drinking fluids. She is also doing push when the others can barely stand. Furthermore, in later movies, the hidden androids also accompanied their human crew members in cryosleep to hide the fact that they were androids.

Yea, good observations. ??? Experience and discipline maybe?

4. Janek reaction - Vickers is cold and strictly professional the entire mission but when the captain jokes about her being a robot, her entire personality takes a 180 and she has implied sex with him. In the Blade Runner universe, some androids were created as "pleasure models" so Vickers could technically be capable of having intercourse with a human. Her actions could have been designed to eliminate any suspicion of the fact that she was an android.

She has contempt for the whole mission. She likely views the entire crew as expendable, lowly employees but she recognizes that she needs to keep the Captain under control and on her side. Why not use sex?

5. The Medi-pod - The Medi-pod in Vickers room indicates that it is calibrated for a male occupant. Most say that this device was for Weyland only but it seems odd that it wouldn't be able to take care of Vickers without workarounds. Unless Vicker's didn't need medical assistance because she was an android.

Yes, it's for the old man. He doesn't give a shit about his daughter. You do have a point though.

6. Strength - Vickers easily throws David against the wall in anger but androids in the Alien universe are quite strong and this would be quite hard to do for a normal person. The android in the first Alien film needed to be restrained by multiple people when it freaked out.

I missed that. Interesting. Maybe he is programmed not to fight with her. Can I get that for my kids? I'll pay anything.

7. David's relationship - David refers to Vickers as "mom" and while this phrase is sometimes used to describe female superiors, it is still odd for David to call her that. Is Vickers an earlier or later generation? Was there something more David's comment about Vickers needing to "Try Harder"? There seems to be some kind of sibling rivalry between the two. This could be seen in the bit where David turns off his camera, preventing Vickers from seeing the Alien control room and she comments about him "cutting her off". David also seems to like to push her buttons and she is not particularly nice to him. Android jealousy?

The old man does treat David like a son. Maybe they were raised as siblings. Maybe Vickers built David? Maybe you have another point.

8. Death - she is crushed to death so we really have no idea how she would have reacted if she was infected or impregnated by the biological threat present on the planet. As far as I know, she was the only one not killed by the Engineer's other than the suicide pilots.

I don't get your point. How does this indicate anything either way. She's probably dead, maybe not. So what?

9. Intelligence - Is is just me or are Vickers and David the only characters capable of making rational choices?

Hmmm dunno

Finally, I don't trust Damon Lindelof and neither should you. Scott tried to dodge questions about Deckard being a replicant as well so really, we will never know unless she is brought back in the Prometheus sequel.

Why should he spoil it for us by telling us what to think? It kills the mystery.

 

[Matt Ryan]

You can presumably argue Vickers is human and Weylands daughter. His whole deal is about losing his empire. Like Kings of histories past, they continue having children until they have a Son who can take the reigns. With the technology Weyland has at his disposal there's not even a need to use his dick. So with that, I'm sure Vickers is one of possibly many female siblings all being fathered by Weyland (at least in a DNA sense). Vickers gives the line "A king has his reign, and then he dies. It's inevitable." A direct indication of Vickers being his next in line (unless women can't take his position with the company)?

I believe Vickers hate for David is because:
a) Weyland has no respect for her or women in general
b) if he could I'm sure Weyland would appoint David as his heir
c) Weyland refers to David as being the closest thing to a son yet never mentions his own flesh and blood Vickers
d) David is the only one worthy of carrying out Weylands orders
e) she considers everyone below her
f) David is a robot with no emotional connection to her father, yet is closer to him than her
h) Vickers is a bitch

 

[Jay Birch]

7. David's relationship - David refers to Vickers as "mom" and while this phrase is sometimes used to describe female superiors, it is still odd for David to call her that. Is Vickers an earlier or later generation?

He was saying ma'am.... An English abbreviation for the word madam, used to address women of high authority in the state and military.

 

[Jeremiah McLamb]

I thought the movie was awesome! I will be seeing it again for sure! Epic performed beautifully! I was entranced the entire time. Went to a midnight showing (and I was so tired) but it kept me on edge the entire time.

Don't know why so many hate it...but to each his own I guess. I love the movie because it made me think. It made me look at every thing in the frame...it made me listen carefully to every piece of dialogue...I like a movie that does that. Sometimes I want to see a movie that is easy to watch and is mindless entertainment...other times I want to be forced in to participation (i.e. Prometheus).

Lindelof has his issues...but I'm a huge Lost fan...so I might have already been a little biased.

I think the characters were a little silly at times...but aren't we all? Especially if our minds our clouded with the exploration of something completely new...and also clouded with the fact that this huge alien is trying to kill me?

I watched Alien again the other night...and that crew did some silly things as well...but everyone loves them. It also seemed muuuuuch slower than I remembered it. Still loved it though.

Anyway, I thought Prometheus was great...one of the few who do I think.

 

[Scott Crawley]

One lesson that I'm taking from Prometheus is this: If you plan to mix Mythology with Sci-fi in a way that goes beyond mere symbolism, do so with great care. Sci-fi audiences expect a level of realism and it is of paramount importance to make it clear that the story, setting and characters are MYTH, and MYTH has more in common with fantasy than Sci-fi.

What lessons are you taking from all of this?

 

[Trevor Emmerson]

Does anyone know the backstory behind the Lawrence of Arabia clip they used? I am specifically interested in finding out whose idea it might of been to bring that world into the production, if indeed neither Lindelof or Scott were responsible. I think i read somewhere that it wasn't in the script.

Watched Lawrence yesterday and i think there is more than a casual connection between he and android David. Father issues, who do you serve, who are you? etc. Also read somewhere that the title Prometheus was at a studio exec's suggestion. Big David Lean fan i presume. One of Leans early films ,The Sound Barrier, was about a plane called Prometheus and its effort to break the sound barrier. Kind of a holy grail at the time. The film also features as at its heart a wealthy aircraft manufacturer's quest to achieve that goal at the risk of his test pilots lives, and the strain that puts on his relationship with his daughter. Sounds a bit familiar.

Haven't see anyone talk about this connection despite countless other theories seemingly based on far less. Is Prometheus just an overly elaborate David Lean homage?

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

One lesson that I'm taking from Prometheus is this: If you plan to mix Mythology with Sci-fi in a way that goes beyond mere symbolism, do so with great care. Sci-fi audiences expect a level of realism and it is of paramount importance to make it clear that the story, setting and characters are MYTH, and MYTH has more in common with fantasy than Sci-fi.

What lessons are you taking from all of this?

That no matter how you try to spin this, you aren't convincing me that what I saw was a movie that even remotely touches the ideals you claim to have gleaned (id argue made up) from that mess of a story. LEGEND made more sense and had more mythology intelligently woven into the narrative and most people hated that film. I LOVE it and count it amongst Ridleys best work.

All I know is that when Charlize was on Letterman or Leno (I forget) and said "well, a LOT of the movie ended up on the cutting room floor" - it was clear she felt the movie had not realized
what she had hoped. I can't find the interview but will keep looking. But that was very telling for me.

as was post #207 here. http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...SPOILERS-till-June-8)))&p=1022670#post1022670

 

[Al Lougher]

This has the same questions I asked:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0&feature=youtu.be

 

[Brian Boyer]

Here is my reasoning for at least suspecting Vickers of android status.

As to the question of whether Vickers is human, she most definitely is for what I believe to be the most obvious reason...she's scared and fears for her life.

It's not just self preservation. You can see the fear on her face and hear it in her voice. Speaking of which, she's talking to herself when she's trying to make the escape pod - sort of a self motivating "C'mon, c'mon" type of thing.

Androids would have no use for such behavior. We know this because of David's behavior. He's the barometer.

 

[Scott Crawley]

That no matter how you try to spin this, you aren't convincing me that what I saw was a movie that even remotely touches the ideals you claim to have gleaned (id argue made up) from that mess of a story.

I've stated it before and I'll repeat it just for you; I have made no attempt to convince anyone of anything. I don't know why anyone would characterize my participation in these threads as "spinning". I've merely been engaging in some discussion and analysis, thinking it through as we go. I never told anyone their assessments were wrong, and continually qualified my suggestions with "maybe" and such. I never asserted that my ideas were even correct.

Call it made up if you like, it is all interpretation and speculation, and that goes for all of us, unless of course you helped write it yourself. You're all free to disagree, like or dislike. I have no vested interest in directing your opinion.

Thanks Mr. Friendly for your objectivity.