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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Picture of a Weapon

So Jarred... what are you here to drop on us tonight? Hmmmmmm?

C'mon, you know you wanna
 
Jarred Land said:
O yes... Dragons are not going anywhere. Scarlet Dragon and Epic Dragon still are and will continue to be in the lineup.
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That's good, because I've only had the Drafon upgrade since last fall, and am just beginning to feel I really know it. As long as the upgrade path is open into the future, I'm very happy to stay where I am for a while.
 
Scott Crawley said:
That is what the XL module is for. It may offer other features as well, but I don't assume it will.


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So if this thing in the Gio pic is not an XL battery, where on the Redvolt XL module do you put the XL battery, Matt? :bigear:

The first time I saw the picture above I thought the battery was on the back, with the red eject button, but now I am not so sure. That doesn't seem to resemble the XL battery, does it? Come to think of it the thing in the Gio picture doesn't look like an XL batt either. It looks more like a standard Redvolt.

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From the rear Scott, just like a normal battery would ;). My guess is it recesses into the slot so the XL battery may only protrude out a 1/2" from the rear. They better never have a battery sticking out the operator side or handheld would be a BITCH!
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I bought a Red brick and some rail gear like the quickrelease platform which I really need right now. I sincerely hope Weapon isn't rendering that useless as well.
Other then that I'm holding off on everything until I know what Weapon is. Right now, both my side handle and my +1 module might both be useless and those cost quite much.
Though I'm happy I didn't listen to people telling me to get the regular 1.8 media, glad I invested in mini-mags even though I bought them with an MX.
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I don't get this. You will use all of this stuff until you get a weapon into your hands right? And thats maybe a year, 18, 24 months away, who really knows. So anything in your hands, that you use to make films is never obsolete. Mini mags was a great move, but my mags still work today as they did yesterday and as they have been since I got my EPIC and as they will for as long as I keep using them. The only thing that will make them obsolete is me, but then someone else might still use them. There are Original RED ONE's being used today. They are not obsolete.

I'm typing this on a 2008 MAC that I have cut 4 films on this year.

All this angst is crazymaking.

Battistella
 
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David Battistella said:
I don't get this. You will use all of this stuff until you get a weapon into your hands right? And thats maybe a year, 18, 24 months away, who really knows. So anything in your hands, that you use to make films is never obsolete. Mini mags was a great move, but my mags still work today as they did yesterday and as they have been since I got my EPIC and as they will for as long as I keep using them. The only thing that will make them obsolete is me, but then someone else might still use them. There are Original RED ONE's being used today. They are not obsolete.

I'm typing this on a 2008 MAC that I have cut 4 films on this year.

All this angst is crazymaking.

Battistella
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exasperating, annoying, irritating, maddening, provoking, irksome, vexatious, trying... I just worked on a short where we used my 1960's ARRI 16M - Obsolete? Perhaps.

I guess I don't understand how people buy gear that isn't going to 'make its money back' quickly. Something that you use once or twice a year, sounds like a rental.
 
I agree with your sentiment but I'd like to address the second half.

The need to recapture the investment in 18-24 has nothing to do with how inherently valuable I think the gear is. The market drives that, and tech values tend to drop quickly, often without regard for usefulness. Red values have been remarkably buoyant because of quality and tactful management but they are not immune to this phenomena.

The insatiable desire for the newest thing is what drives values down I think.

There are factors to be considered besides market values but with a business purchase projected market values can weigh heavily for many.

I find that people manage their tech like they use their cars; some rent, some lease, some buy to re-sell and others buy and drive the fucker until it dies. I try to do the latter, but some products have longer legs than others. Hardware can run and earn a long time while much software does not. I haven't yet been burned on a major hardware investment personally, but I have over reached with software a few times.

Glen Powell said:
exasperating, annoying, irritating, maddening, provoking, irksome, vexatious, trying... I just worked on a short where we used my 1960's ARRI 16M - Obsolete? Perhaps.

I guess I don't understand how people buy gear that isn't going to 'make its money back' quickly. Something that you use once or twice a year, sounds like a rental.
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Any one knows if small redvolts will fit in somewhere in the new eco system or is it only XL´s and Vlocks that goes with the weapon?
 
Jarred said they would. No details.

Björn Benckert said:
Any one knows if small redvolts will fit in somewhere in the new eco system or is it only XL´s and Vlocks that goes with the weapon?
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Matt Ryan said:
From the rear Scott, just like a normal battery would ;). My guess is it recesses into the slot so the XL battery may only protrude out a 1/2" from the rear. They better never have a battery sticking out the operator side or handheld would be a BITCH!
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Didn't the quad module mount batteries on both sides? I don't recall folks complaining much about operability with that. You?
 
Scott Crawley said:
I agree with your sentiment but I'd like to address the second half.

The need to recapture the investment in 18-24 has nothing to do with how inherently valuable I think the gear is. The market drives that, and tech values tend to drop quickly, often without regard for usefulness. Red values have been remarkably buoyant because of quality and tactful management but they are not immune to this phenomena.

The insatiable desire for the newest thing is what drives values down I think.
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I get you - I have 10 Panasonic P2 cards (and the cameras, batteries and general shite that goes with them). They 'owe' me nothing; paid for many times over, they had a great run and got me to the next stage. I don't use them anymore, and whenever I think about them I do get a little ticked off that they cost so much and I only used them 2-3 years (??).

But I never feel like I made a bad decision to buy them, I never feel like I got shafted by Panasonic... because I used them - often. I made a lot of money with them. They still pay off for me, because I now lend them (freely) to a group of guys who are starting out and need a hand with gear, just like I was helped in my younger years. It's great to pass along the love.

So I'm not really bothered by the fact that when I move to WPN; some of my modules will fall by the wayside. Sidehandle - we had good times together. REDMote - kind of like that insane ex girlfriend who stalks you and won't go away; but we had a laugh or two. Quad Battery module - Oh how I love you... Great times. When I've upgraded, these items will find their way into the hands of someone who can use them with their Epic / Scarlet Dragon to make their next great project.

Jared has said that these two cameras will live on in the RED store for a while; side by side with WPN. So if you want / need to sell them you will be able to - I'll just pass mine along to someone who needs a hand.

Life is way to short for a lot of the angst.
 
Phil Holland said:
There's still people who want Red to make a 3K camera with a smaller sensor out there.
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Alternative formulation:

There are still people who would find VERY useful a very compact high picture quality camera with practical single operator focus pulling in real life situations, minimally compressed raw onto off the shelf memory cards, more optimized for run n gun, able to shoot wide open more often without razor thin DOF, camera being a proper successor for S16 format where resolution is secondary to other factors, not having to watch over a $30K bag/case with every creative whim, carrying another bag/case for glass, still achieving resolution which matches Alexa, not being a problem for many Oscar nominees/winners.

Phil Holland said:
In reality, one of the smartest moves Red ever made was ditching that concept for the more S35 minded 4K Scarlet-X w/ Mysterium-X.
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That is your valorization.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
Alternative formulation:

There are still people who would find VERY useful a very compact high picture quality camera with practical single operator focus pulling in real life situations, minimally compressed raw onto off the shelf memory cards, more optimized for run n gun, able to shoot wide open more often without razor thin DOF, camera being a proper successor for S16 format where resolution is secondary to other factors, still achieving resolution which matches Alexa, not being a problem for many Oscar nominees/winners.



That is your valorization.
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I'm the first person to say that the future of stills and motion is LARGER sensors.

BUT ... if RED put the Dragon sensor technology in a 2/3" sensor .... a SHIT TON of people would buy it - specifically sports shooters, VR, etc. etc.
 
No doubt, but Red is still small (But growing!) and that cam falls outside of their current focus. They are called Red Digital Cinema after all.

It sounds like the work of a future division. The question is when Red is ready, will the format be moot? ;-)

Donald MJ Anderson said:
It would be a smart move.
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I Don't see a good business plan for RED if they wanted to go ⅔ sensors for Broadcasting.

1. Most those cameras are bought and owned by TV Stations (not individuals). They aren't gonna jump on the Red bandwagon anytime soon cause they have partners that offer quick repairs. They offer loaners. Red offers this too but not as quick as driving to your local dealer and picking one up. No infrastructure to support "LIVE" tv.

2. It would slow Red down in innovating. Either Broadcast companies would stop buying Red cause they can't keep up or Red would slow down cause that audience purchasing "changing technology" won't allow switching over. It took 10 years to switch from SD to HD. Betacam tapes to XDCAM. Studios buy one format and then stay with it for long periods cause they can't keep buying new cameras, VTRs, Editing systems, etc. every year. That money get's spent on other upgrades like studio master control room needs.

3. Sony is the main player in that world and they do it well. Red can come in at a cheaper rate but why? They're not big enough like Sony to have a few slow years in sales on camera. Sony has other areas that can generate revenue when one market slows.

4. A new body (ENG style) means more parts and more cost for repairs and possibly more inventory and thus more storage. In the end, I don't predict huge sales. Is the Amira appearing in News stations yet? Just like we don't see that many Canon cameras in ENG news reporting (we're not talking indie stuff or documentaries). It's all Panasonic and Sony. It's an "Old School" market to change thoughts...not even about the technology.
 
Right... A dedicated division with it's own infrastructure and a 4k 2/3 sensor or it is dead before it begins.

NFL films has done some shooting with Epic as I recall. They were not unhappy.

Wil Wong said:
I Don't see a good business plan for RED if they wanted to go ⅔ sensors for Broadcasting.

1. Most those cameras are bought and owned by TV Stations (not individuals). They aren't gonna jump on the Red bandwagon anytime soon cause they have partners that offer quick repairs. They offer loaners. Red offers this too but not as quick as driving to your local dealer and picking one up. No infrastructure to support "LIVE" tv.

2. It would slow Red down in innovating. Either Broadcast companies would stop buying Red cause they can't keep up or Red would slow down cause that audience purchasing "changing technology" won't allow switching over. It took 10 years to switch from SD to HD. Betacam tapes to XDCAM. Studios buy one format and then stay with it for long periods cause they can't keep buying new cameras, VTRs, Editing systems, etc. every year. That money get's spent on other upgrades like studio master control room needs.

3. Sony is the main player in that world and they do it well. Red can come in at a cheaper rate but why? They're not big enough like Sony to have a few slow years in sales on camera. Sony has other areas that can generate revenue when one market slows.

4. A new body (ENG style) means more parts and more cost for repairs and possibly more inventory and thus more storage. In the end, I don't predict huge sales. Is the Amira appearing in News stations yet? Just like we don't see that many Canon cameras in ENG news reporting (we're not talking indie stuff or documentaries). It's all Panasonic and Sony. It's an "Old School" market to change thoughts...not even about the technology.
Click to expand...
 
Wil Wong said:
I Don't see a good business plan for RED if they wanted to go ⅔ sensors for Broadcasting.
Click to expand...

Sensor size does not necessitate typical broadcast usage. No need to capture an interview, newscast or anything outdated the next day in 12/16 bit raw. 10 bit 4:2:2 h.264/tomorrow 265 is fine.
Broadcast is covered and it's going high compression. S16 compact form factor cine quality segment isn't. One does not negate or replace the other. Other borrowed from one because there was nothing else.
 
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