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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Panasonic TC-P50VT25 Viera 50" 3D monitor

Mark L. Pederson said:
We are "burning in" the monitor in now. We'll calibrate on the 12th and let you know what we find out with respect to gamut, etc.
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Might you be able to check out peak white level on the display ? We measure 24FL on an 11 series.

Will have a 20 series this we will to check out too and let you know how we get on with it.

thanks,

Dave
 
mikeburton said:
I was referring more to offline editorial monitoring 3D not necessarily grading. I used a Davio box for on set monitoring from two RED's on the ET Rig into a Hyundai monitor and I had nothing but trouble. We did get it to work but it was quite finiky and annoying. Might have been a bad box but for the money it should work consistently and that just wasn't my experience. Glad to hear others are having a good experience with it. Love my Cinetal Cinemage 2000 24' though :-)
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Mike - you must have had a bum unit. I'm gonna buy a Blackmagic 3D unit anyway - for the price - it's worth just having one in your 3D kit - I just suspect (like the Decklink Pro) the color/LUT processing situation is not going be good enough for anything critical - you never know I guess ... but I've never been really happy with anything Blackmagic - except my VideoHub -
 
Hope that Da Vinci Resolve is going to be a real killer app for all those m***** f****** in field of R3D post production and CC, post grading or whatever...
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Mike - you must have had a bum unit. I'm gonna buy a Blackmagic 3D unit anyway - for the price - it's worth just having one in your 3D kit - I just suspect (like the Decklink Pro) the color/LUT processing situation is not going be good enough for anything critical - you never know I guess ... but I've never been really happy with anything Blackmagic - except my VideoHub -
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Yeah, kinda what I thought but you never know until you hear other professionals experience. Glad to hear its working well for others. I'm going to try the Blackmagic HDLink Pro 3D box as well. Although, I agree, we'll see how well the 3D LUT's translate.
I'm interested to hear your impressions on the VT25 after calibration, Mark. We are supposed to be purchasing this monitor end of the month and I'd like to hear what your on site colorists think in comparison to their other reference monitors? BTW - What other reference monitors do you incorporate into your Scratch Suites? Cinetal, Dreamcolor?
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Mike - we currently use Series 11 Plasmas & Barco DP 2000 2K projector w/Scratch.
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I live 10 minutes from Barco headquarters here in Sacramento and visited recently. The DP2000 is an amazing projector, absolutely beautiful. Can't quite justify that cost for our suite yet but i just purchased the JVC DLA-HD950 projector and a 147' screen for our suite which i am quite pleased with. One of the best I've seen after being professionally calibrated when your on a budget.
I'm hoping the Panasonic will fit in nicely along side our Cinetal Cinemage. Keep us posted and again, thanks for your input as always.
 
Thanks Mark and Jeff! Ive been looking at the Blackmagic Declink 3D, but i have no need for the 3D capibilties. So can anyone have suggest a card that can send 10 bit over HDMI for a less expensive price?
 
I don't know about a less expensive option, but the AJA Kona / Xena LHi is about $1200 and will do 10bit out over HDMI. IMO it's a more sensible choice over the Kona3 or such, unless you need all the extra capture abilities.

Depending on your system, there may be other options too. Matrox MXO2 and such, but I don't know of anything that is cheaper than the BlackMagic cards.
 
zak forrest said:
what do you mean ?
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They're one size fits all with interchangeable nose pieces. However, they are sized to fit people with giant watermelon heads. They are a front-heavy ergonomic nightmare design and it's obvious that Panasonic made no attempt to actually consult any qualified designer here or conduct any serious market test before finalizing this crap. I find them terribly uncomfortable and annoying with some difficulty keeping them from slipping if I move about too much. They are too wide for my head and my head is pretty average, maybe a bit on the smaller side of average. Several others who have tried them here with all the various nose pieces can't even keep them on their heads.

I've read in several of the online forums that a lot of people are buying neoprene sports straps for the glasses to help keep them on their heads. A friend of mine who is 6'5" with a big head, I don't know his actual hat/head size, but he wears a XXL FlexFit ball cap. He thought the glasses fit him pretty well, but still tried all the nose pieces and had trouble with them wanting to slip forward.

The Samsung/Sony glasses are ergonomically better several times over compared to the Panasonic glasses and those suck too.

Head over to your local BestBuy or other electronics store that has the Panasonic 3D TVs and others and try the glasses. The Samsung glasses are large too, but not this large. And they also make a couple different styles and sizes, even a kids size. Panasonic just has one size..

I only have the one 3D glasses that came with the TV. I'm not running 3D to it right now, so don't need anything right away. I guess I'll see what's out there when the time comes. BestBuy has a generic brand that is real similar to the Samsung medium sized glasses. They work with the Panny, Samsung and LG sets. I haven't tried the LG glasses myself, but I hear they're currently the best ones. Don't know if they'll work with any other TVs though.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
BestBuy has a generic brand that is real similar to the Samsung medium sized glasses. They work with the Panny, Samsung and LG sets. I haven't tried the LG glasses myself, but I hear they're currently the best ones. Don't know if they'll work with any other TVs though.
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Keep in mind... those glasses that "work" with other TVs...

Every 3DTV is a bit different, and different glasses are specifically made to work with different TVs. I know we're not talking about incredibly color critical monitors here. But, it's worth keeping in your head that all active/passive glasses are *not* made the same. Manufacturers actually do design specific lenses to go with specific TVs. Even though a set of glasses may work with another set... it may not look as the manufacturer intended.

Lucas

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
Lucas Wilson said:
Every 3DTV is a bit different, and different glasses are specifically made to work with different TVs. I know we're not talking about incredibly color critical monitors here. But, it's worth keeping in your head that all active/passive glasses are *not* made the same. Manufacturers actually do design specific lenses to go with specific TVs. Even though a set of glasses may work with another set... it may not look as the manufacturer intended.
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Good point. Yeah, if I'm going calibrate an input for use with 3D, I would probably stick with the Panasonic glasses, no matter how terrible the ergonomics as they do match up with the display. Perhaps other options will materialize or revised design and/or different sizes.

I'm still not sure how to really calibrate for 3D on any of these panels using active shutter glasses. To me, the Samsung LED panels look entirely different with 3D content than the Panasonic plasmas do. Totally different brightness levels and color rendition. As Mark said, broadcast 3D is like the wild west right now.

But for a general production monitor with decent color abilities and 24fps, the VT25 is really looking good. I'm still waiting on my new color probe to do a proper calibration... I may play with it and the 3D glasses too, just because I'm curious. Calibrating through the glasses would probably be better with a probe like the Hubble where it can have the glasses right up against it while it shoots the TV at a distance.
 
how is a tv like this usually calibrated (even for 2d)?
i've calibrated my monitors that have been directly plugged in to the graphics card and stayed plugged there for use (picking up the calibrated profile setting from system prefs>Displays). but i'm wondering how is the calibration process or tools different if i'm to use it for aja or blackmagic outputs later? is the calibration done still while plugged in through graphics card though, how is the calibrated profile loaded/applied to the screen in this case?

thank u
 
Hey Jeff any word yet on your results? If you had to buy a grading monitor for 2d work would you suggest this monitor with the blackmagic decklink pro? Thanks in advance!
 
I wouldn't do color work in 3D with current 3D technology.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Good point. Yeah, if I'm going calibrate an input for use with 3D, I would probably stick with the Panasonic glasses, no matter how terrible the ergonomics as they do match up with the display. Perhaps other options will materialize or revised design and/or different sizes.

I'm still not sure how to really calibrate for 3D on any of these panels using active shutter glasses. To me, the Samsung LED panels look entirely different with 3D content than the Panasonic plasmas do. Totally different brightness levels and color rendition. As Mark said, broadcast 3D is like the wild west right now.

But for a general production monitor with decent color abilities and 24fps, the VT25 is really looking good. I'm still waiting on my new color probe to do a proper calibration... I may play with it and the 3D glasses too, just because I'm curious. Calibrating through the glasses would probably be better with a probe like the Hubble where it can have the glasses right up against it while it shoots the TV at a distance.
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Best results we are seeing are 2D grade with broadcast calibration - match eyes and luminance trim pass for 3D - but yeah ... still a moving target. We are going to test custom profile for active glasses based on the Panasonics - and test across a range of 3D panels - active and passive.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
We are going to test custom profile for active glasses based on the Panasonics - and test across a range of 3D panels - active and passive.
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IMO testing is always welcome, but even if you do come up with a solution technically adequate for 3D color work your colorist will be subject to huge additional eye strain which will unavoidably affect his performance.

I suggest sticking with 2D work and 3D compensation passes.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
IMO testing is always welcome, but even if you do come up with a solution technically adequate for 3D color work your colorist will be subject to huge additional eye strain which will unavoidably affect his performance.

I suggest sticking with 2D work and 3D compensation passes.
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I concur. But I must always test ... otherwise ... there is no OFFHOLLYWOOD.

You can not innovate without testing.

If you do not test - and risk - you are just like everyone else.
 
Tony Augustinack said:
Hey Jeff any word yet on your results? If you had to buy a grading monitor for 2d work would you suggest this monitor with the blackmagic decklink pro? Thanks in advance!
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I'm still fiddling with it. I'm using an X-Rite i1 Pro with CalMan software and I'm having a little trouble getting consistent results with it. It's no $5K Hubble probe, that's for sure, but oh well. I think I'm close to having the display calibration dialed in where I feel comfortable with it. Black levels seem to be holding consistent ~ about 200 hours on the panel now.

This is a great monitor for 2D work, or so it seems thus far. 24fps run at 96Hz isn't too hard on the eyes, but 48Hz is pretty bad at times. The phosphor latency on this panel is really low (good), which it needs to be for 3D and to avoid pixel trails and latent images. But this does lead to some noticeable flickering or strobing, especially if the monitor is in your peripheral vision while looking at other things.

I'll get it dialed in here soon and when I'm happy, I'll post my overall findings. I initially didn't buy the monitor for 3D now, but it seems everything is progressing in that direction really fast, so I'm going to be doing some more work with 3D calibrations, workflow practices, etc.. later this week and into next week. I'm going to try and put some sort of 3D rig together to shoot with, probably this weekend. Going to have to build something and decide which cameras to use. I won't have a RED One to work with for a few weeks, let alone two of them -- most all my gear is out working. Hoping and praying for Stage-2 to start tomorrow! I picked up a second RED One a couple months ago in order to get my hands on another Stage-2 Epic-X. Now it turns out, I'll have two perfect cameras for shooting awesome 3D. :)
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
I concur. But I must always test ... otherwise ... there is no OFFHOLLYWOOD.

You can not innovate without testing.

If you do not test - and risk - you are just like everyone else.
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Hats off...
 
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