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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Panasonic GH5 gets a kick in the pants, firmware update coming. And YI 4k+ 4kp60.

Price Ben, price.

You are confused Ben :) This is a Red forum, I merely started out saying it wasn't as good as a Raven etc, out of respect for the forum. Pegging it as no real competition. Realistically, even cheap consumer tech has been in advanced of the dynamic range here. A big issue. I personally like the image of the Ursa Mini 4k as another similar range camera example, despite what people say, and the noise, but it not what I'm after, otherwise I would have one now (I actually regret not buying the pocket when itbwas on special, I find the image has charm. But as for a camera that will grow with you and allow you to do more, and more looks, they could have done more. So, thats my quib. Now, for the student film makers, and low end documentarist, go for it. If your target media is DVD BR or 4k BR to local audiences, then ok. But if you want better on the ground wedding and events filmingbI think you ate going to have to put effort in, and during weddings you don't have so much time. So, a 16 stop+ camera (at least 14 stops) with good low light pickup and rendering is better.

Ben, maybe 1% of people post here, most people just read. I doubt I'm the only one of the planet that wishes they did a bit more with the 4kp60 mode, a better sensor, but more data rate. Even with these things it, in many ways, is not as good asba Raven, but would he a better alkrounder I would be happier to own.

The Sanyo etc were the cutting edge of their days doing more, not Pansonic, that's the comparison. The little grainy aliasing, low latitude Sanyo was used in commercial work, sort of like special effect footage, by ibe if the guys, but that's the point you are locked to the image it can generate. Itbalso shows companies doing more for the price.

Now, look at the gh5 link above, turns out Driftwood was involved with its development, which might explain the data rate increase inntje firmware update. Still, better hardware to begin with.

So, I'm saying 10% more might gave made a better camera, not much to ask or complain about bringing up isn't it. Looks like Driftwood has already pur his bit in.

Thanks Ben, been a pleasure talk to a gentleman.


Wayne.
 
It might be a Red forum, but this is the off-topic section. ;)

In terms of price there is nothing that come close to it. You could have 2 of them for the price of a 5D mk4. For the price of a ready to shoot raven you could probably have 7-8 of them.

It is the Raven of the entry level market and will be sold out for ages.
 
Ben Scott said:
It might be a Red forum, but this is the off-topic section. ;)

In terms of price there is nothing that come close to it. You could have 2 of them for the price of a 5D mk4. For the price of a ready to shoot raven you could probably have 7-8 of them.

It is the Raven of the entry level market and will be sold out for ages.
Click to expand...
I am hoping they are readily available, was on the Black Magic kick when the gh4 came out so don't know how panasonic handles these things

steve
 
Out of the box the camera will shoot 5148x3888(this is the full sensor) at 30FPS(locked can't set it to 24P) in H.265.

That is what 6K photo is doing it is in fact recording video and saves the video. EDIT(no record time limit)

What they are calling 6K anamopric that comes later will be the full sensor and be able to shoot at the normal 24p that we are looking for and again will shoot the whole sensor.

So this is and will grow as a 5K camera. You can shoot open gate and crop later and or reframe. Also it's crop is 2.0X much better than the GH4, it uses the full sensor always. So using a speedbooster ultra will take it to 1.47X crop. This camera is simply going to dominate the indie market. The DR is really closer to 13 stops, but for someone that knows what they are doing 13 stops should be plenty. It's more impotant to how it handles the roll off etc it looks great.

Dual SD card slots and wifi control and monitoring built in and wireless timecode sync...it's got a ton going for it.
 
For web and TV content to buy 10 bit camera with 4K 4:2:2 at 400mps recording and output 4K 50/60P is a Value for $2000. It is 4:3 Anamorphic too, has got V-log
I see no downside here for 80% of global jobs.
 
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Ben Scott said:
It might be a Red forum, but this is the off-topic section. ;)

In terms of price there is nothing that come close to it. You could have 2 of them for the price of a 5D mk4. For the price of a ready to shoot raven you could probably have 7-8 of them.

It is the Raven of the entry level market and will be sold out for ages.
Click to expand...

Ursa Mini 4k (I expect it might be discounted soon), craft 4k camera. Whatever else in April.a month after the match gh5 release. I also doubt the Mini or craft has the parts cost savings of Pansnonic. Have you seen their plant, it is massive, nowhere as bignas foxconn's etc, but what a nice looking compound.

Jiri, that's iframe only, maybe equivalent to 200mb/s inter, which thinkingnof of isn't too bad. But a 300 mb/s 4kp60 4:2:2 10 bit true professional, or better.
 
It takes time, it may not be. It's normal for dates to slip due to circumstance, and a new date, like NAB envisonaged. So, I'm waiting to see what happened till then. It is bad form to not inform people of date changes in advance and make people suffer. Somehow they don't get that all you need to do is specify a series of minimum "likely" release dates, where you just give a new likely not before date if there is a slip. You never break your word, and an early release is a pleasant surprise. Now, it is also bad firm to accuse companies doing actual product genuinely intended for sale of vaporware. Vaporware should be reserved for false marketing etc, products proposed but not even pushed forwards or designed. Many products fail, doesn't mean they were a vapor.

Now, the Yi 4k+ is something that should be half to a quarter the price of the GH5. The Pansonic 4k bullet pack cam came in cheap (likely Sanyo staff heritage) maybe you might see an 8k $699 camera this year.
 
Yes, circumstances like not being able to make a camera.

Honestly, if you're giving examples of a thing done right don't be looking at the Craft Camera which has already been forced to give loads of people their refunds.

vapourware

noun: vaporware

software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right.

Their last activity on social media was April /May of last year.

No sample footage.

No images of a built camera outside 3d renders.

Supposedly shipping in December...
 
Darren Orange said:
Out of the box the camera will shoot 5148x3888(this is the full sensor) at 30FPS(locked can't set it to 24P) in H.265.

That is what 6K photo is doing it is in fact recording video and saves the video. EDIT(no record time limit)

What they are calling 6K anamopric that comes later will be the full sensor and be able to shoot at the normal 24p that we are looking for and again will shoot the whole sensor.

So this is and will grow as a 5K camera. You can shoot open gate and crop later and or reframe. Also it's crop is 2.0X much better than the GH4, it uses the full sensor always. So using a speedbooster ultra will take it to 1.47X crop. This camera is simply going to dominate the indie market. The DR is really closer to 13 stops, but for someone that knows what they are doing 13 stops should be plenty. It's more impotant to how it handles the roll off etc it looks great.

Dual SD card slots and wifi control and monitoring built in and wireless timecode sync...it's got a ton going for it.
Click to expand...

In addition to the fact that my debt situation didn't allow me to stay a Red user, what you wrote here about the GH5 is what pushed me over the edge to make the switch, to know I could still make great stuff for myself and my clients. It is a little weird feeling (albeit a good one) to know that simply selling one 512GB Mini SSD for $2,000 allowed me to buy this new $2000 camera. A different world for sure.

I do want to iterate that even though I'm selling all my Red stuff (Epic-W still for sale) I REALLY REALLY appreciate Red as a company and all that they've done for me personally. No regrets at all.
 
Sorry to see you go Andy.
 
Now, L.Langer. Where did you get that definition from?

So, I could say nearly every single product from every company is vaporware by that definition, which was applied to the late Redone. Even the Gh5 would be vaporware according to that definition. IT IS NOT A VALID defamation/Liable, to use that sort of definition in general. It's not right, and this sort of trash talk can stop legitimate products from coming out by destroying them.even though they would have come out. Whoever write that definition.... As I said, it should be reserved for products that were just vapor, not dissapearing ware or unreleasedware, that had developmental and push status. I would have more respect for you guys if you waited for things to fold, or questioned "if" it was after NAB started. The guys could even be on seasonal holidays, as manufacture wise things take a dive coming Dec 25 through mid to end of January, and manufactures might use it to take annual leave. They could come back to see this, eben though things are progressing. But, it doesn't look that good without a press release. Releasing complex product is incredibly difficult.

Now, a picture of a prototype was released, and people speculated it was photoshoped, but I don't know. It is easy enough to knock up an empty case.

I see craft, if it comes, not as best value they could do, but as progression in the market. Unfortunately the module system means you have to pay x,y,z for items that should come as one module a lot cheaper, and $1795 for a 4k field camera (I would prefer $995).
 
Hmm. Unfortunately it is not really so Andy. 20 years ago things were a lot better in forums, then the legion of twits came in Over 10 years ago things were still good on professional forums like dvinfo (hint) the largest pro video forum. These days out of maybe tens of thousands that come here, most don't post, and most don't want to help of the rest, and most of the rest don't help in the way asked. I guess usenet forums were of one in a thousand post hippies 20+ years ago, with what is now one in a thousand morality, now things have tanked.

As somebody that has 90-99% impairment, I can't afford to help people anymore.
 
Andy Roberts said:
I'll still be reading and posting, if only to engage in these colorful conversations. This feels more like a forum of filmmakers, more than dedication to a particular brand. So many good things things to learn here.
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Absolutely. I offloaded my Scarlet a few years ago but still hung around because of the people on here.
 
Wayne Morellini said:
Now, L.Langer. Where did you get that definition from?

So, I could say nearly every single product from every company is vaporware by that definition, which was applied to the late Redone. Even the Gh5 would be vaporware according to that definition. IT IS NOT A VALID defamation/Liable, to use that sort of definition in general. It's not right, and this sort of trash talk can stop legitimate products from coming out by destroying them.even though they would have come out. Whoever write that definition.... As I said, it should be reserved for products that were just vapor, not dissapearing ware or unreleasedware, that had developmental and push status. I would have more respect for you guys if you waited for things to fold, or questioned "if" it was after NAB started. The guys could even be on seasonal holidays, as manufacture wise things take a dive coming Dec 25 through mid to end of January, and manufactures might use it to take annual leave. They could come back to see this, eben though things are progressing. But, it doesn't look that good without a press release. Releasing complex product is incredibly difficult.

Now, a picture of a prototype was released, and people speculated it was photoshoped, but I don't know. It is easy enough to knock up an empty case.

I see craft, if it comes, not as best value they could do, but as progression in the market. Unfortunately the module system means you have to pay x,y,z for items that should come as one module a lot cheaper, and $1795 for a 4k field camera (I would prefer $995).
Click to expand...

It's past the shipping date and there isn't even a photo of one, let alone any footage and the team behind it have gone silent. It's really not the same thing.

Also, I feel this forum is made of hundreds if not thousands of people who are helpful and part of the community.
 
Look at the number viewing and the numbers posting, and the numbers of them helpful and the number of those bothered to do the right thing..... We need one in a thousand people, not one in a thousand people on the forum.

I wrote there was a photo above. But I see not proof of vapor ware yet. Vaporware is an mere idea, a suggestion, that never goes ahead to development and production, it is ALWAYS vapor, it does not each substance to become disappearance ware, or abandon ware.

I have very little respect for what his happened, but for all we know it is fully developed with prototypes ready to start manufacture this month, or that manufacturing arrangements are holding it up, or they are desperately seeking financing to go ahead to manufacture. Or one or more of the parts suppliers are slaying them. The most otennthing I hear about complex products (not that I follow it much anymore) is delays. In software development on corporate upgrades overuns of over100 (even some1000% at times) wee common. You really need to know what you are doing to deliver on time. I know one company that after maybe 4-6 years did not ekese their credit card fulhdp60 camera with USB 3, they had an asian manufacturer that supposedly knw what they wee doing too. Just what happens, what happened with the Red scarlet fixed up till it WS abandoned before release date, what happens with a number of cameras, delays.
 
So where is even the footage from a prototype?


There are hundreds if not thousands of active and helpful people from all around the world on here. at all levels, from ASC members like Mullen, Lyons-Collister and Probst and their equivalents around the like world like Daniel Stilling etc, to pioneers in various areas like Phil Holland or Bjorn.

There's never been a point on here when someone hasn't tried to help me with a question or query, no matter how silly.
 
We have a deposit on our first RED. While I'm sure many of you who have owned these cameras and done some amazing professional work, this message is just for the cynics. A show, a really good friend of mine just finished was entirely shot on the GH4. There were Alexa and RED users (cinematographers) who were shown episodes. They couldn't tell what it was shot on. They thought it was amazing. I don't understand where the cynicism comes from. There were those who started somewhere right? Well we had junk as starting cameras not too long ago. The young ones up and coming right now have a 4k60p camera that will do 422 internally soon for less than $2000.00. I have 17-20 year olds right now that are wanting to get into the business. I'm very happy for them that now I can recommend a GH5 as their first camera. I had to wait until post college to actually start getting into semi professional work. The price was too high. This is incredibly impressive. As for RED. Most humans couldn't even look at the Epic when it was the cheapest thing out there. Now thanks to progress, we have the Raven and Scarlet-W. It's within reach for a lot more people. That's amazing. I really think it all boils down to what you are shooting. But kudos to progress on all sides.
 
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