Panasonic GH5 gets a kick in the pants, firmware update coming. And YI 4k+ 4kp60.

[Satsuki Murashige]

Not worth it Ben, let it go. It's the Internet.

 

[Ben Scott]

See, good advice on Reduser

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Wayne, chill please, you create issues out of nothing and the vibe is contagious as you may see.

Nice work guys, hats off.
Camera seems pretty capable.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Frankly, this is bollocks. You have zero idea of the strength and depth of relationships I have formed from Reduser. I've both given and received work here. Bought and sold many thousands of pounds worth of equipment and given advice when I can and received advice that completely changed the way I move my career. It's like a comfy home and if you don't like it you know where the door is.

Ben and I have been sharing advice on vintage glass for years at this point...

 

[Wayne Morellini]

In the years I've been here you have told the forum about a million ideas that you came up with first. And yet I don't hear your name in connection with any of these products once they have gone to production. It's all very well complaining about stuff in theory without going out there and getting your hands dirty and making this stuff happen.

What people find odd is that you are picking on a super cheap consumer level camera with the most advanced features ever seen in something at that price point and using it as the example of something that should have been a lot more when it has blown its competition out of the water in terms of features and image quality. Even though you have never touched one.

Ben, I can't even do millions of ideas. Unfortunately I have gotten my hands dirty and made plenty happen for zero recognition. But you haven't got your hands dirty with working out.

Frankly, this is bollocks. You have zero idea of the strength and depth of relationships I have formed from Reduser. I've both given and received work here. Bought and sold many thousands of pounds worth of equipment and given advice when I can and received advice that completely changed the way I move my career. It's like a comfy home and if you don't like it you know where the door is.

It is not about you Ben, I'm talking about the community in general, not a handful of relationships. I have them too, but that does not speak for the postings on the forum in general towards lots of people. It is a matter of accessing what is said. I can reason till the cows come home out of love, but that doesn't mean what I reply to is worth dignifying (which is my fault, reasoning, loving and dignifying). I normally spend heaps of time changing, considering, and rewriting my posts to make them more accurate and more subtle. Typos ate more difficult to see on this screen, unless noticed while making I better, I don't hit it right. It would be helpful to same in return.

Not worth it Ben, let it go. It's the Internet.

See, good advice on Reduser

You should be telling me it is only the internet, and not worth it. It is why so few truely creative or engineers come to professional forums. You can only really reason with people willing to see reason.

Wayne, chill please, you create issues out of nothing and the vibe is contagious as you may see.

As you can see, they have created issues about a little true reasoning in negative vibe, instead of chilling, which I have addressed. The problem is usually faulty reasoning, they bring the vibe.

Now, take a step back, there has been a major down turn in discussion after the pre scarlet fixed announcement, when it was going to be a camcorder, before that a pocket camera I believe. Actually, before that I was privately advocating a pocket camera to Jim, my directors viewfinder concept. When the latter pre annoncemenrs came up the forum started getting filled with a different crowd, that liked to argue with advancement but had trouble arguing out of a ... bag. They even made a separate forum to get them off to. Since the death of the fixed, it has slowly gotten better. So 100%, it was way better many years ago. Certain people as helpful, well that was a lot more normal, and communications a number of factors easier. Instead of seeing the possible as possible, they tend to argue like it's impossible. Problem with normalised culture, they imagine something different as wrong rather than progressive. Go to a pub out in the middle of somewhere and explain creativity to the hard working mill workers, and why you have to spend more and more split hairs, and ask for an investment, and see the reaction. It doesnt mean you were at all wrong, despite what they say. So, as you go up the pay grade and deal with advanced matters you find things are different.

Now, except for the 6k sensor and 400mb/s iframe, it is the spec the gh4 could have been. But people outside of industry don't know the games played: offer cheaper to make, and sell less features today to enhance profit elsewhere. So asking for some mild feature improvements that make it more usable for more people (not just the ones objecting) that will allow note flexibility in look, is in no way bad, and no reason to argue insistently against such. If you want somebody that will not respect the truth and reason, someone else might be better.

If they could only increase the iframe to 600mb/s 10 bit 4kp50, it would be good.

Now, just wait till the Yi 4k+ 4kp50 comes out, to compare to something. It is not the h3 chip, but the h2. A 4/3rds sensor and a mount is not that much. Always compare pricing performance to what can actually be done. If the Pansonic was made the way it could be, most of BM's and craft, lines would be toast, as the big manufacturers are set up for low cost volume that they are not. I always want to see and care about what is right, why do you think I bother to design, but for others.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Good bye guys, thanks for ruining reasoning and another of my threads. Now let me get back to watching House on Netflixs, you should try it, you might understand me better (and what I'm not being like).

 

[Hal Long]

Wow. This thread is a sinkhole. Let me jump in...

The GH5 isn't a Raven, Helium, LT, Amira or studio cinema-grade camera, but what its specs offer should prove to be a potent camera for filmmakers of ALL levels.

GH cameras have opened doors and supported many filmmakers. Why argue over what the camera isn't? Because what it is represents a first in class small camera body with 422 10-bit internal and very high resolution to boot. I've used GH cameras on projects as A-Cam, B-Cam, C, D, E and F cams on dozens of projects for broadcast (HD - 4K), web or industrials and no one has ever said it didn't work. As a C cam for inserts and additional coverage alongside LT's or a couple Dragons? Great. You just saved $600/dy in rentals. Need a light gimbal camera that handles motion very well? Done. As an A-cam for a web promo? Go for it. As a potent, budget Green/Blue Screen cam? No worries. Shooting BTS and want a compact camera with XLR audio ins and 10-bit? Woohoo.

If you know how to light, expose or key you can get great results in so many workflows.

I own three GH4's because they're so versatile. Every show I shoot has a limit on the number of full size camera bodies. It can be none or five, but eventually it's capped. I have no hesitation grabbing a GH to fill the gap. No problems on single and multi-cam TV shows, commercials and industrials.

The GH5 will, no doubt, better than the GH4 and I expect to own at least one by the end of spring. Luke Neumann's work with the GH5 show that it should do the job just fine.

Will it be perfect? No, but it'll be damned good for the price and may be the best in class for some small piece of the future. Does it need to be more? I don't think so.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

If they could only increase the iframe to 600mb/s 10 bit 4kp50, it would be good.

They could increase the bitrate to 600Mb/s but then most folks would not like the cost of storage able to record it.
Because many of those SD cards claiming 90MB/s are not really able to get that fast even even if strapped to a rocket in the gravitational sling-shot around Jupiter.

I recall Sony 4K branded 94MB/s UHS-1 U3 SD-XC G4sjxt&FX100Turbo16V where one worked nicely with 100Mb/s (12.5 MB/s) 4K XAVC-S and two did not, all bought at Sony certified dealer.

If they gave 10 bit 4K 50p folks would get pissed because it's not 4K 60p or 6K 50p or 6K 100p.
You get the picture.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Hrvoje, I think about the answers before I post. Let them eat 400mb/s ifrane cake if they want to, it is NP no objection to not have it. They can eat 20mb/s a second infrane cake if it was an optiin, and if they want. When I was interested in the BM, I was determined to use a lower prores node for certain things, an upper one for others and sometimes raw. Believe me, if you are employed for the day to film activities at a school, or a staff presentation training video, you don't need much more.

I hope you realise, there are a lot faster than 95MB/s card from memory, for years, and if you devide 600mb/s by 8 you get less than 80MB/s. If your serious about quality you will want the option.

Now Luke did a lit better job than the camera. I could see the tricks he was using to keep the sky good. Just part of knowing what he is doing. It still is not near what would be better. Being a lot less than EPIC etc, it can still afford to offer some things.

The practical picture is people do film these sorts of rates, even on iPhone. 4kp50 converts easily between a handoff HDTV format and 24/48fps at 180 degree shutter. If it is so close p60 won't work reliably then p50 is a good compromise, and it is unfortunate that 60p wouldn't work, but st least it would work for somebody.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Hal, well I'm trying to chase them out of my sink hole. It's usually the exact same handful of people that come along and disrupt and argue wrongly against any point just for the sake of it, every thread. But in this case, it is only one maybe more of those people here. I don't think Ben is involved in that sort of thing, but I get problems remembering people.

I'm rather happy to answer, but not at all to stone walls, generous answers attract little in return, they just screw up 90%+ of my personal threads, and I'm talking about the exact same people. Only times threads go well is when they are having time off. I post sometimes thinking I hope such and such aren't around, because they have some 'ideas' that just doesn't suit.

If you have the enhancements I say, you can use certain 3D filming technology, you can film action as good and as defect reduced in 60p as you can in 30p with better motion, and better post with more range of look. But people want to argue against even incrementally good things that provided better coverage of function. We havebthst in politics here now, it is all stingy meaness and progression is framed as mean policies (meaness as in stinginess, which just wastes a whole heap of increased productivity bynthose effected, very against right and left wingnism). Note, I never said tlit was as good as new Reds, or that the improvements would make it so, so what is the issue a going against such.

Now, your point about lighting etc, is my point, with a better internal camera setup you get a wider range of flexibility in post, which suites live action, and you don't have to try so hard to get the image to look a certain way, saving time and money. My other point was that 12 stop is nothing special in concumer tech these days. That many things in the industry are direct moves to hold back what we can do easily. I forget what what his name said, he wanted over 20 stops, to get better work out of a camera. He was right, but I know 16.5 stops can give you a natural look naturally. Using a hdr multislope filming (and other techniques) is old technology, even in consumer tech. So, does it take tens of thousands to get the same stops as a sub $100 pocket camera, no, but it is a good compromise to have a sensor that has it (HDR is often not as good as having native 16.5 stops like I guess the Helium has).

The performance of the camera stuck out at me, but this is YouTube, which doesn't tell ell the whole story. So, I could notice a lot of upsetting stuff in it. Not Luke, but the camera, that could have rendered the story better for HIM. He did a fine job, but I have seen better out of a older BM, 10 bits in a 12 bit HDR era is not something that is paeticulary good. It seemed to render the sky better than other 12 stop Sony sensor cameras I have seen, but that is likely Luke holding it under control. I rejected buying a 4/3rds action camera because of the range rendering, low datarate and probably p30 (but might have been waiting for one with the sane sensor at $599 or $699 RAW.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Now, the other issue, is that you will normally for and at least a few people that will think such and such camera is good enough, even if the camera is a super vhs in this day and age, and that you don't really need more. It doesn't mean that is what everybody thinks, otherwise Red would be dead and people would have bought gh3 or gh4 instead of their cameras in one possible outcome. But of course, closer to what we see, and easier to use, and less issues, is better. This stupid long argument is better left to somebody that thinks they need to raise it to 30k instead of 8k for 8k filming in the coming 8k area with 30 bits 4:4:4 60 stop 600fps instead of 4:2:2 24 stop 24 bit 120fps etc even cinema might use in ten years time. Time may come when their wishes might be normal, but there aren't much real use. So anybody arguing against it being just a little closer to a pro camera usng consumer tech...

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

I hope you realise, there are a lot faster than 95MB/s card from memory, for years, and if you devide 600mb/s by 8 you get less than 80MB/s. If your serious about quality you will want the option.

Sure there are:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...a46b_128gb_xtreme_pro_cfast2_0_515r_240w.html

If you want the option you have to pay for the option.
And many don't want to.

Folks have issues with these for a $5000 camera body.
Simple logic brings the conclusion that once used in a $2000 camera smaller group would just appreciate higher bitrates while angry mob starting riots.

Pleasing the crowd is a Sisyphus job and product design gets a cold reality check once it exits the warm domain of idealistic thought.

 

[David Peterson]

Out of the box the camera will shoot 5148x3888(this is the full sensor) at 30FPS(locked can't set it to 24P) in H.265.

That is what 6K photo is doing it is in fact recording video and saves the video. EDIT(no record time limit)

What they are calling 6K anamopric that comes later will be the full sensor and be able to shoot at the normal 24p that we are looking for and again will shoot the whole sensor.

So this is and will grow as a 5K camera. You can shoot open gate and crop later and or reframe. Also it's crop is 2.0X much better than the GH4, it uses the full sensor always. So using a speedbooster ultra will take it to 1.47X crop. This camera is simply going to dominate the indie market. The DR is really closer to 13 stops, but for someone that knows what they are doing 13 stops should be plenty. It's more impotant to how it handles the roll off etc it looks great.

Dual SD card slots and wifi control and monitoring built in and wireless timecode sync...it's got a ton going for it.

WHAAAATT??? :-o

Wireless time code sync? What, where? More info please!

 

[David Peterson]

Sure there are:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...a46b_128gb_xtreme_pro_cfast2_0_515r_240w.html

If you want the option you have to pay for the option.
And many don't want to.

Folks have issues with these for a $5000 camera body.
Simple logic brings the conclusion that once used in a $2000 camera smaller group would just appreciate higher bitrates while angry mob starting riots.

Pleasing the crowd is a Sisyphus job and product design gets a cold reality check once it exits the warm domain of idealistic thought.

"Cannon Cameras"!! haha

That B&H link amuses me

 

[Ash Worth]

Luke, great work. Looking forward to seeing your anamorphic work. The SLR magics would be x2 for this camera? The 35mm is a 70mm etc?

 

[Luke Neumann]

Luke, great work. Looking forward to seeing your anamorphic work. The SLR magics would be x2 for this camera? The 35mm is a 70mm etc?

Thanks man

I believe so, yeah.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Man guys, you got to get out of here, I'm having fun on other threads (this thread was meant to be serious).

Anyway, here $299 4kp60 yi 4k+ camera using older h2 chip. They have limited recording to 120mb/s inter unfortunately. But again, this level of technology is cheeap..

https://www.cnet.com/au/products/yi-4k-plus-action-camera/preview/

Here is zcam, supposed to becoming out with a raw 4/3 12 stop sensor for less than $700 or 600. I don't expect tjemnto have the volume cost savings of Pabsonic, or even Yi 4k+, but indicates what canbe done been better at the price. The raw version has not materialised, maybe NAB.

http://z-cam.com/tech-specs/

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Luke. I'm interested, people talk about using adaptors and s35, but unless it is for fullframe 35, or bigger, for artistic shots, I'm not really interested. But I am interested in a compact super fast multi focal m, or lens set, with pleasent bokeh for most other things. Do you know of any?

It would be ideal if there was such a auto/manual multi focal for 4/3rds cameras that had attachable ENG like controls. Maybe I should approach one of the specialist lens makers, as a product. Does any body know of cheap lens makers that can make descent lenses?