October 30th Announcement Feedback

[Tim Hole]

Can I assume that the electronic Canon mount will enable the lens build in Stabilizer to work?

You know what they say about assumptions and mothers right?

 

[Dan Raabe]

Not sure if this is the correct thread. I am a still photographer. I want a better camera with a system that is simpler and more trustworthy than the leaf system I now use. What fills the bill from Red? (a 35mm chip would be the minimum size)

 

[Steve Gibby]

I have some of the same concerns too. Mainly because Many of us in the doc word don't have time on our hands to program to go into menu's, or even switches to go from Iris to Zoom to focus. I film rather frantic events that happen quickly. Try filming a rhino capture where you need focus, iris and zoom pretty much all at once or you'll miss it.

I plan on a detachable scarlet, but was really looking to a fix for all the close up action and leave my detachable with canon tele's on it.

Would love clarification how this work. I'm sure my need are addressed, either on the side handle or something I've missed.

As you know, the core of my work is mobile documentaries in multiple genres, including the wildlife genre you work in. Frankly I don't see a field use problem with the features RED has announced for the fixed lens Scarlet - in fact I think we should reserve judgement on how useful the camera is until the specifications are all announced as finalized and we can get the camera into field testing. Then we'll know what the camera really is good at and what its limitations are.

For the type of shooting you described, and keeping in mind I shoot a ton of that same stuff, personally I would set the camera to auto iris, focus via the lens ring, and zoom with the rocker switch on the Side Grip.

Some motion media people sneer at auto-anything, but I've never been that way. I simply setup and use a camera in the most practical way to get the images I'm after. Even when using B4 2/3" camera systems for certain rapid pace genres, I would routinely use auto iris, with of course manual focus and rocker zoom. That's exactly what I'd be using with the fixed lens Scarlet most of the time for quick shooting of fleeting subject matter - auto iris, manual focus, and manual (rocker) zoom.

The X factor is RED's new auto focus system - which none of us but RED Team know much about. If the auto focus system features instantaneous acquisition and tracking of subjects, that could enable a user profile of auto iris, auto focus, and a choice of assigning manual zoom to the handle rocker switch or lens ring.

In February 2005 I produced, directed, and shot a mobile, standard definition documentary at the NFL Super Bowl XXXiX in Jacksonville. There were about 3,000 press credentials issued. I had all access. The documentary centered on all the events of the week leading up to the game, tracking celebrities all around, and then in the locker rooms, and on the field right after the game. I had a wide choice of high-end camera systems to use. What did I opt to use? A tricked out VX2100, with a Varizoom Lanc pistol grip, a zoom through wide converter, a small sungun, an L bracket with a short shotgun and a dual wireless receiver. All week long I'd be in big scrums of other camera crews - but I'd consistently get image angles the shoulder camera crews could only dream of. Many times they'd say "I wish I had your camera system today!". That VX2100 was set up how I would setup the fixed lens Scarlet for shooting subject matter like that - auto iris, sometimes auto focus and sometimes manual focus on the lens ring, and manual rocker zoom.

That documentary aired nationally and was well received. People seemed to love they way I got shots and camera angles they didn't see anyone else get. To me that was a simple example of leaving ego aside, picking the right tool for the job, and using it the right way on the job.

If RED produces the 2x extender and wide converter lenses they mentioned early on for the fixed lens Scarlet, that would also give quick ability to have a 16x zoom, or a very wide angle lens. Both of those would come in way handy for a long list of mobile EFP genres - nature, sports, wildlife, docs of various genres, and on and on. They've already confirmed an internal ND filter wheel, which is another key feature for shooting in those genres.

Obviously for other subject matter with the Scarlet where I have more time to get the images, I'll opt to go manual. For higher resolutions and frame rates I'll go to my Epic and probably shoot most functions manually, although I'll explore all features of Epic to maximize them for each shooting occasion.

You're a successful veteran and obviously have a way you like to work. To each their own. This post of mine just describes what my approach to using the fixed lens Scarlet would be in mobile non-hardlined EFP situations. I look forward to the possibilities with the fixed lens Scarlet

Have fun in Africa! I've shot there many times...and love it there.

 

[Tim Hole]

Not sure if this is the correct thread. I am a still photographer. I want a better camera with a system that is simpler and more trustworthy than the leaf system I now use. What fills the bill from Red? (a 35mm chip would be the minimum size)

What do you currently shoot with? As a comparison for stills...S35 (although not full frame) is larger than APS-C (22mm x 15mm) at 30mm x 15mm. For full frame 35mm you are looking at the FF35 Scarlet (36mm x 24mm) All will fit 35mm lens

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

(snip) RED Rocket™™ is really designed for real-time playback of full 4k footage. Since you will be staying at 2K or 1080p it is not necessary. (snip)

Todd made a lot of good points but I have to disagree with his contention that the RED Rocket™ card is of little value beyond 4K playout. Even if your target deliverable is 2K or 1080; doing a full res, full quality debayer will give you the most "meat" (subtle details, smoother curves & diagonals, depth) in your image. I base this opinion on looking at the same image processed at 1/2 res for 1080 monitoring vs full res monitored at 1080 on the eCinema DCM-23.

Be aware that for some material the 1/2 res decode can actually enhance perceived sharpness and seems to encode better for medium bit rate MPEG-2 typically used for distribution. For a theatrical distro via DCP I would expect the more nuanced image from the full res decode to be superior. As always; test, test, test.

Of course the other great thing about the RED Rocket™ is speed. I understand that time vs money is a different equation for every project and individual, but it needed to be mentioned.

Best of luck.

Cheers - #19

 

[Andy Roberts]

Any word on how much the Fixed Scarlet would weigh? Could it be used with the Steadicam Merlin which has a practical weight limit of 5-6lbs?

 

[David Rasberry]

People are latching on to specifics and not looking at the whole picture objectively.

First off, Mr. Jackson is stated to be IN the beta program, not that he IS the beta program. Jim never said that the beta program only consisted of people that had reached the levels in the industry as Mr. Jackson. They will of coarse choose a wide selection of users to test it in various scenarios.

Past that we are talking about the EPIC-X, not the 2/3". It comes at a price point and an expected level of professionalism. It is absurd to expect this to be sent to kid in wisconsin with no experience what so ever for "lowest common denominator" testing.

Some of us Scarletusers held a Skype conference a couple of days ago and one of the participants was an early RED adopter who will likely be in the Tattoo Beta program.
He made a very good point that the Epic-x beta program will help proof test and debug new hardware and software that are common to both the Epic and Scarlet programs. This is an invaluable contribution for us all as it will mean hopefully a shorter time to production release than would otherwise be the case.

 

[Steve Johnson]

Jim / Jarrad

First - thanks for the great work you guys over at RED are all doing in getting these cameras to us. All of them are game changers!

A few questions - not not if they have been answered (going through, can't find the answers!)

1. Will the Scarlet S35 (indeed all the upcoming DSMC cameras) be able to do the touch focus?

2. Is the touch-focus as simple as touch the LCD on where you want to focus and it sets the correct focus?

3. Can you continually touch the screen as your object moves and it will keep it all in focus?

If yes to all the above, I think you have defined a new job role in the industry from Focus Puller to Focus Toucher!

Thanks and keep up the great work.

Steve

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Absolutely true David.

 

[David Rasberry]

Jim / Jarrad

First - thanks for the great work you guys over at RED are all doing in getting these cameras to us. All of them are game changers!

A few questions - not not if they have been answered (going through, can't find the answers!)

1. Will the Scarlet S35 (indeed all the upcoming DSMC cameras) be able to do the touch focus?

2. Is the touch-focus as simple as touch the LCD on where you want to focus and it sets the correct focus?

3. Can you continually touch the screen as your object moves and it will keep it all in focus?

If yes to all the above, I think you have defined a new job role in the industry from Focus Puller to Focus Toucher!

Thanks and keep up the great work.

Steve

I don't know how the REDs will work, but one of the nifty features of the Lumix GH1 is the ability to tag a moving object you want to keep in focus, say an actor's face, and the camera uses that as the AF reference. Manual focus pulling not necessary.

 

[Christopher Nagel]

How to imagine scarlet's images?

How to imagine scarlet's images?

I am not sure what question I'm asking here, but I have a suspicion it's more about math than anything else.

16mm film can be exhibited via 35mm prints and the effect is "grainy" (or any number of other adjectives like "immediate", "gritty", "natural", etc.).

What math should I do to imagine what a Scarlet image will look like when printed to a 35mm exhibition print - will it look pixelated - or will it look better?

35mm@2K: 2.3 pixels per square mm
2/3 @ 2k: 37 pixels per square mm

16:1 format ratio (35:2/3)
16:1 pixel ratio (37:2.3)

So Scarlet @ 2k = std 35mm telecine quality?

Ahh, like I said, I think I'm asking how to do the math... I have a suspicion that this is not a real comparison (like comparing 1 apple to 1 orange and saying they're the same cuz they're both 1).

Chris
(ever feel like you understand how the monkey feels about that darn tin can?)

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Another thing to consider here is how many different ways that single ring could be used. What if it were tied to a rocker switch or other buttons to toggle functionality? For example, push down on one half of the rocker and the ring controls zoom, push down the other side of the rocker and it's iris, neutral position is focus. What if that is only one method and all different approaches can be user-defined?

Interesting. Maybe something like additional mini rocker or a switch on a handle (perpendicular to zoom rocker and cca 0.5" in size) near a pointing finger to switch between ring functions, say focus/iris or focus/zoom. That way left hand could always be on the lens and right always on controls. I'd put that just a tad to the left of the pointing finger.

Personally, I'd like to have my iris on a dial, zoom on a rocker and leave the ring for focus. At least for a compact 2/3" camera that would suit me just fine in most situations.

Same here.

Some motion media people sneer at auto-anything, but I've never been that way. I simply setup and use a camera in the most practical way to get the images I'm after. Even when using B4 2/3" camera systems for certain rapid pace genres, I would routinely use auto iris, with of course manual focus and rocker zoom. That's exactly what I'd be using with the fixed lens Scarlet most of the time for quick shooting of fleeting subject matter - auto iris, manual focus, and manual (rocker) zoom.

...I had a wide choice of high-end camera systems to use. What did I opt to use? A tricked out VX2100, with a Varizoom Lanc pistol grip, a zoom through wide converter, a small sungun, an L bracket with a short shotgun and a dual wireless receiver. All week long I'd be in big scrums of other camera crews - but I'd consistently get image angles the shoulder camera crews could only dream of. Many times they'd say "I wish I had your camera system today!". That VX2100 was set up just how I said above that I would setup the fixed lens Scarlet for shooting subject matter like that - auto iris, sometimes auto focus and sometimes manual focus on the lens ring, and manual rocker zoom.

Oh but noo Gibby, how dare yee, that is so not "pro".

 

[David J. Shuman]

Hello, If StarWars Episodes II & III were shot on 1080P and letterboxed for 2.35:1 for 35mm exhibition prints, then Scarlet's 2/3 3k de-Bayered 2.5k (roughly) image should be fine for theatrical quality. The new push for 4k digital projection in theatres might be an issue down the road, but the quality of these new cameras should be enough for most situations. SMPTE defines new 3-D standards as 2k for each eye, Scarlet 2/3 would be excellent for 3-D applications....

 

[Zachary Marsh]

A question that someone might be able to answer -- In terms of the new camera's, have we heard about their functionality with Vegas/FCP/Adobe? Is the workflow going to be the same?

Will we still be able to re-package red files into whatever codec for FCP? Are there still going to be proxies to bring into the timeline? Has any of that changed?

 

[I Bloom]

David you're right!!! I can't fully understand how this "Fly by Wire" works... but I really need a Zoom gear... and a focus one at the same time... waiting waiting the end of November!!!!

I imagine it's just a matter of cost, after all the lense and the camera come together, and they are the entry level DSMC. If you need more rings it's just a matter of upgrading to a non-fixed lense Scarlet.

-------

As to those upset about the exclusivity of the Tattoo program. I'd say it seems like Red doesn't have much choice in the matter. They can only create a certain number of these cameras and the cameras are for Red an investment in field knowledge about the design. So they have to get the best feedback possible, they have no choice.

Sadly alot of guys who started shooting on the camera in 2007 and have made a career out of Red One will probably still not qualify (myself included.) But keep in mind it's only ownership that is exclusive, anyone can rent a Tattoo camera and start shooting DSMC this year (hopefully), that's really how it worked in the early days of the Red One as well. However my particular dream of carrying my Epic at all times (regardless of social awkwardness) will likely have to wait. :coolgleamA:

IBloom

 

[Deanan]

I imagine it's just a matter of cost, after all the lense and the camera come together, and they are the entry level DSMC. If you need more rings it's just a matter of upgrading to a non-fixed lense Scarlet.

Exactly the point of the non-fixed.

 

[Billy Gedney]

A question that someone might be able to answer -- In terms of the new camera's, have we heard about their functionality with Vegas/FCP/Adobe? Is the workflow going to be the same?

Will we still be able to re-package red files into whatever codec for FCP? Are there still going to be proxies to bring into the timeline? Has any of that changed?

That is an interesting question... I was thinking, doesn't FCP have a max resolution just under 4k which requires editors to edit with proxies or lower resolution sources, depending on the destination? How would that change once we have the option to edit 3k files?

Billy Gedney

 

[Jarred Land]

Jim / Jarrad

First - thanks for the great work you guys over at RED are all doing in getting these cameras to us. All of them are game changers!

A few questions - not not if they have been answered (going through, can't find the answers!)

1. Will the Scarlet S35 (indeed all the upcoming DSMC cameras) be able to do the touch focus?

yes

2. Is the touch-focus as simple as touch the LCD on where you want to focus and it sets the correct focus?

yes.. and there are a few other features for racking etc. that should make you guys pretty happy.

3. Can you continually touch the screen as your object moves and it will keep it all in focus?

yes

If yes to all the above, I think you have defined a new job role in the industry from Focus Puller to Focus Toucher!

Thanks and keep up the great work.

Steve

probably a blend

 

[David Dennis]

I don't even know why people would fight over being in the program, but then again "im not beta tester material". For me it seems like a bad deal no matter how you put it. Get a camera you can't trust and on top of that you have to play nice and even pay for it.
The moment Peter Jackson recieves his Tattoo, Jim has gained an expert debugger for free. Guess who is smiling most.

Nik Skjøth

At the same time, your feedback is shaping up how the system will work in its final form. For people who have always wanted a custom camera setup, it's a dream come true.

Remember too that Jim has mentioned he will lose money on every Tattoo sold.

I have a hunch that when Peter et al receive their cameras, they'll be smiling along with Jim, and that's how things should be.

D

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Hello, If StarWars Episodes II & III were shot on 1080P and letterboxed for 2.35:1 for 35mm exhibition prints, then Scarlet's 2/3 3k de-Bayered 2.5k (roughly) image should be fine for theatrical quality. The new push for 4k digital projection in theatres might be an issue down the road, but the quality of these new cameras should be enough for most situations. SMPTE defines new 3-D standards as 2k for each eye, Scarlet 2/3 would be excellent for 3-D applications....

3k on Scarlet should look lovely (guess measured resolution out to ~2.5k). However, I have little doubt that 3k nicely downsampled will make for a sharp (but not nasty aliased edgy) 2k that just pops.

There should be visible superior resolution to that of a full 1080p, and probably more than twice the horizontal resolution of the mushy "1080p" I'm measuring on the vDSLRs that claim "full 1080p".

Me - I can't decide how many S2/3" I'll buy - but I know I want quite a few! I reckon it will be "the" camera to carry around with you everwhere like Gibby was mentioning earlier.

Graeme