October 30th Announcement Feedback

[Jesper Sichlau]

I have some of the same concerns too. Mainly because Many of us in the doc word don't have time on our hands to program to go into menu's, or even switches to go from Iris to Zoom to focus. I film rather frantic events that happen quickly. Try filming a rhino capture where you need focus, iris and zoom pretty much all at once or you'll miss it.

I'm with you on this. Also my thoughts when I read about the Focus/Iris/Zoom lens.

Also would it be possibleto program the lens to to iso-controls?

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

That would be me and that is not a bad idea..

All I know is that FIXED lens looks super PRO and like it costs $3K alone.

the refinements in industrial design are what are most impressive. Everything you guys are making is truly getting better and better and exceeding expectations...

Im super excited for EPIC, no doubt, but the fixed Scarlet seems the most incredible innovation... I also cant wait to own one or two of those too.

 

[Darrin Taylor]

First post. Totally novice questions. Be gentle.

First post. Totally novice questions. Be gentle.

I have very recently developed an interest in movie making and know next to nothing about it, if this question offends anyone in its lack of background knowledge let me apologize upfront.

1a) Will the Scarlet 2/3 be capable of making cinema quality output?
1b) Will the Scarlet S35 be capable of making cinema quality output?

Specifically I am interested in 1080p or 2k resolutions with a overall picture quality that with optimum lighting during filming and some post production will not look offensive on a big movie screen 2k digital projector or 3d 2k digital projector.

I ask this because I did some research into the GH1 and 7d and initially the quality of those cameras seemed reasonable but after watching more and more video it became clear that the limited data rates seems to make them unable to produce consistent HDTV level output.

2) If the answer to number 1 is no it won't, will it be capable of making HDTV quality output all day every day, again indoors in optimum lighting?

3) I think scarlet touch focus/touch zoom can be programmed to function without a focus puller and automate zoom, iris and focus please correct me if this is wrong. Are there any drawbacks to the touch focus, touch zoom system, can it do 3d ie synchronize 2 or more cameras so they start their profiles at the same time?

The project I am interested in is making a 3d movie with just me. I would be the camera man, I would be the only actor. The touch focus, touch zoom abilities of the Scarlet seem to be a massive boon to anyone thinking about this type of project. Being able to synchronize the zoom/focus/iris between multiple cameras would likely be interesting to others as well.

4) Am I in the right ball park on total camera budget?
I am thinking that a 3d Scarlet configuration based on the old .pdf (2 brains, 2 lenses, etc etc) is somewhere around 10-15k. Almost all my shooting will be indoors 5 to 15 feet from the actor. I would love to be able to remotely zoom/focus and would have plenty of time to figure out the right settings for each shoot, will this require expensive lenses or additional hardware that make my budget unreasonable? If the official voices need to duck this question can one of the unofficial voices set me straight if I am way off base here.

5) What is the lowest budget workflow for 1080p or 2k that doesn't sacrifice any noticeable quality at HD or 2k? I can afford to be VERY slow time wise.

I have seen some people say that if you buy a red-one you need to buy a RED Rocket™ custom computer with some software attached to use it. In my situation time is free and I have the ability to do reshoots without any big issues but money is very limited as it exceeds the <15k I am looking to spend. Can I get semi professional results with just FCP studio on my mac pro?


6) For 2k or 1080p does S35 really matter?

If the final output is going to be 2k or 1080p does shooting in 4k/Quad and down converting to 2k/1080p really add anything? If so does this require additional Hardware/software/money?


Thanks for your patience. =)

 

[Peter Osinski]

1A)yes
1B)yes
2)yes
3)sounds like something you should be able to pull off
4)you should really wait to see if they release final pricing on Nov. 30th, but for 15k you're looking at 2 fixed lens kits i would think, then lighting, tripod and anything else you need
5)
Mac:
Intel 2.0 dual core or better
ATI graphics card is ideal however I have run tests on NVIDIA in the new MBP and MacPro and it seems to work fine.
OSX 10.4 or newer.
7200 RPM Hard Drive

PC:
Intel 2.0 dual core or better
NOTE: you can use AMD processors but they need to be MODERN AMD, which would have to be a fairly recent release as I believe they are behind just a bit on Intels.
NVIDIA graphics card, this is important on the PC as ATI cards are known to cause conflicts. 8600GT or better will work.
XP with SP2
7200 RPM Hard Drive.

6) I'm just gonna go out and say that while I am not 100% sure, I would bet a lot that there is no way you can afford 2 scarlet s35 setups and everything else you need anyway for 15k, also read up on depth of field and how it changes with sensor size, that is where the difference will come in when comparing it to 2/3" stuff also scaled to 2k

 

[Felix K.]

Hey Darrin, welcome to REDUSER!

I have very recently developed an interest in movie making and know next to nothing about it, if this question offends anyone in its lack of background knowledge let me apologize upfront.

1a) Will the Scarlet 2/3 be capable of making cinema quality output?
1b) Will the Scarlet S35 be capable of making cinema quality output?

Yes to both. Picture quality will not be compromised by the technical aspects of the camera. The 2/3 sensor will not have as shallow a DoF as the S35 though.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_field

2) If the answer to number 1 is no it won't, will it be capable of making HDTV quality output all day every day, again indoors in optimum lighting?

See 1. :smile5:

3) I think scarlet touch focus/touch zoom can be programmed to function without a focus puller and automate zoom, iris and focus please correct me if this is wrong. Are there any drawbacks to the touch focus, touch zoom system, can it do 3d ie synchronize 2 or more cameras so they start their profiles at the same time?

This has to be answered by the RED guys. Lot of this information will come on the 30th of November, I guess. There is an announcement planned for that day.

4) Am I in the right ball park on total camera budget?
I am thinking that a 3d Scarlet configuration based on the old .pdf (2 brains, 2 lenses, etc etc) is somewhere around 10-15k.

Good question. The prices for the Scarlet have not been announced yet.
You'll find lot's of speculations about that in the Scarlet folder of this forum.

5) What is the lowest budget workflow for 1080p or 2k that doesn't sacrifice any noticeable quality at HD or 2k? I can afford to be VERY slow time wise. [...] Can I get semi professional results with just FCP studio on my mac pro?

Yes, this should be possible if it has a decent graphic card and enough RAM. Asking about minimal configurations here is always kind of a problem:001_smile: The professionals mostly come from a different angle where "basic" still means "economical" (e.g. timewise) and "professional" (e.g. needing industrial standard displays etc.).

6) For 2k or 1080p does S35 really matter?

If the final output is going to be 2k or 1080p does shooting in 4k/Quad and down converting to 2k/1080p really add anything? If so does this require additional Hardware/software/money?

It sure will. Oversampling is never a bad idea. Otherwise everybody would have stopped developing at 2k. If it does for your projects though can only be answered by yourself.

Thanks for your patience. =)

Again, you're welcome atriot:

 

[Dave Blackham]

The Redmote ( or multiple Redmote's) can control focus.. if you want it to.

And on the fixed 8x lens.. remember the ring on the lens is electronic. Which means you can program it to control focus. or iris. or zoom. Some people might want to touch focus or auto focus and use that ring for zoom control. Some might not. The choice is yours.

Is there some other form of assignable controls for the other lens functions to operate the lens. So if for instance the ring is set to focus, Is there/can there be a zoom demand control and iris control on the lens/camera. Im thinking for operation similar to a video camera type operation.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

When will the Canon mount be available?

 

[Todd M.]

I have very recently developed an interest in movie making and know next to nothing about it, if this question offends anyone in its lack of background knowledge let me apologize upfront.

1a) Will the Scarlet 2/3 be capable of making cinema quality output?
1b) Will the Scarlet S35 be capable of making cinema quality output?

Specifically I am interested in 1080p or 2k resolutions with a overall picture quality that with optimum lighting during filming and some post production will not look offensive on a big movie screen 2k digital projector or 3d 2k digital projector.

I ask this because I did some research into the GH1 and 7d and initially the quality of those cameras seemed reasonable but after watching more and more video it became clear that the limited data rates seems to make them unable to produce consistent HDTV level output.

2) If the answer to number 1 is no it won't, will it be capable of making HDTV quality output all day every day, again indoors in optimum lighting?

3) I think scarlet touch focus/touch zoom can be programmed to function without a focus puller and automate zoom, iris and focus please correct me if this is wrong. Are there any drawbacks to the touch focus, touch zoom system, can it do 3d ie synchronize 2 or more cameras so they start their profiles at the same time?

The project I am interested in is making a 3d movie with just me. I would be the camera man, I would be the only actor. The touch focus, touch zoom abilities of the Scarlet seem to be a massive boon to anyone thinking about this type of project. Being able to synchronize the zoom/focus/iris between multiple cameras would likely be interesting to others as well.

4) Am I in the right ball park on total camera budget?
I am thinking that a 3d Scarlet configuration based on the old .pdf (2 brains, 2 lenses, etc etc) is somewhere around 10-15k. Almost all my shooting will be indoors 5 to 15 feet from the actor. I would love to be able to remotely zoom/focus and would have plenty of time to figure out the right settings for each shoot, will this require expensive lenses or additional hardware that make my budget unreasonable? If the official voices need to duck this question can one of the unofficial voices set me straight if I am way off base here.

5) What is the lowest budget workflow for 1080p or 2k that doesn't sacrifice any noticeable quality at HD or 2k? I can afford to be VERY slow time wise.

I have seen some people say that if you buy a red-one you need to buy a RED Rocket™™ custom computer with some software attached to use it. In my situation time is free and I have the ability to do reshoots without any big issues but money is very limited as it exceeds the <15k I am looking to spend. Can I get semi professional results with just FCP studio on my mac pro?


6) For 2k or 1080p does S35 really matter?

If the final output is going to be 2k or 1080p does shooting in 4k/Quad and down converting to 2k/1080p really add anything? If so does this require additional Hardware/software/money?


Thanks for your patience. =)

Lots of questions there Darrin. I'll try to offer what I can and I'm sure others will chime in.

Question 1: As to whether the Scarlet 2/3" or S35 cameras will be "capable" of producing cinema quality output I would say: absolutely. The cameras are capable of shooting 3K and 5K respectively so there is certainly enough resolution and the 2/3" chip is roughly the same size as S16mm film; and there have been many projects shot on S16mm, scanned to 2K and printed on 35mm for distribution to theaters. If your interest is in trying to shoot a film for theaters, I would first and foremost shoot that film on a cinema camera. DSLR's that have video capabilities are not cameras designed for motion picture photography. Others may disagree, but these are my feelings on the subject.

Question 2: Not necessary because the answer is yes.

Question 3: I don't know that anyone other than someone from the RED team can answer all of those at this point. Jim and the team have promised more information on November 30th. What we do know is there is an autofocus function and we know that zooms can be programmed (to what extent remains unclear). Beyond that only time will tell.

Question 4: I would wait until more details are released before speculating as to prices. We do know that the prices for Scarlet will have gone up by the time they are officially released because RED has been busy adding a host of new features. Where they will end up is only conjecture by anyone on this board at the moment.

Question 5: That depends on what you have already. In your response you mention FCP so I'm going to assume that you have an updated version of Final Cut Studio. If so, I think an FCP/Color workflow will be your most cost effective solution. There is plenty of documentation about this workflow so I won't go into detail here, but you would have the capability to do a very nice 2K finish with these tools. RED Rocket is really designed for real-time playback of full 4k footage. Since you will be staying at 2K or 1080p it is not necessary.

Just remember that the tools are not going to make a great film for you. My personal feelings about Paranormal Activity aside, the fact is it currently stands at $86m domestic and still climbing. This film was shot on a Sony FX1 and looks like it. Did that stop the film from becoming a huge success? My point is that Scarlet will give you an image that is of an exceptionally higher quality than an old FX1 but it won't make a successful film for you. Take your time, learn the tools and continue to ask for advice. This will ensure you get the best quality you can and if you make a good film, it will find it's way into a theater.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

EDIT: Wow, a lot of people already responded in the time it took me to write this... Anyway:

1a) Will the Scarlet 2/3 be capable of making cinema quality output?

Yes.

1b) Will the Scarlet S35 be capable of making cinema quality output?

Yes.

For either camera, you will get good results as long as you light the set properly, and expose it right. Also, remember that acting and sound are at least as important in any narrative.

5) What is the lowest budget workflow for 1080p or 2k that doesn't sacrifice any noticeable quality at HD or 2k? I can afford to be VERY slow time wise.

Take the R3D files, log and transfer them into Final Cut with the ProRes settings, edit the piece. Then you can send to Color, reconform to the original files for colour correction, and output.

6) For 2k or 1080p does S35 really matter?

If the final output is going to be 2k or 1080p does shooting in 4k/Quad and down converting to 2k/1080p really add anything? If so does this require additional Hardware/software/money?

Down-sampling will generally reduce noise, make things slightly sharper if you miss the focus a little, and if you're going for the shallow DOF, blurry background look, that's easier to achieve with the s35 model. It wouldn't make a massive difference though at those resolutions if you shot it right though.

 

[Jeff Hitchcock]

I see the price for the battery module with two batteries, but no price for the individual batteries themselves. Any idea what the standard batteries will cost us? How about the XL batteries?

Also, is the Redmote included with every brain purchase, or is it something to be bought (and budgeted) separately?

Fixed Scarlet lens looks awesome, can't wait to get my hands on one.

 

[Mufu Giwa]

Jarred said in I beleive post 859 of this thread that brains come standard with pl mount and you only pay extra if you want to get the nikon, red, or canon electronic lens mounts. (subject to change of course)

There was no mention of C mounts, which would be non electronic as well, being an option. Also there has been no price listed for a b4 mount or adapter price for the epic/scarlet system, but due I would assume it would be priced similar to the current RED b4 adapter - $3500.

edit: found the quote

:confused1: Hi all
Someone please answer this question. Currently Red announce Nikon, Canon and especially "Red Electronic lens mount" while the Brains are said to come with PL Mount standard, right. Now could somebody tell me if the new "Red Electronic Lens Mount" is just a PL mount format and so compatible with any other PL lenses out there or something specially for Red electronic lenses only. Regards Giwa.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

:confused1: Hi all
Someone please answer this question. Currently Red announce Nikon, Canon and especially "Red Electronic lens mount" while the Brains are said to come with PL Mount standard, right. Now could somebody tell me if the new "Red Electronic Lens Mount" is just a PL mount format and so compatible with any other PL lenses out there or something specially for Red electronic lenses only. Regards Giwa.

I believe that the RED mount is different - but I don't think they've gone into any specific details about it.

 

[Steven Caesare]

The Redmote ( or multiple Redmote's) can control focus.. if you want it to.

And on the fixed 8x lens.. remember the ring on the lens is electronic. Which means you can program it to control focus. or iris. or zoom. Some people might want to touch focus or auto focus and use that ring for zoom control. Some might not. The choice is yours.

Thanks for confirming that.

Any comments on the reposnsiveness of the lens when using the ring to adjust focus, aperature, etc?

It takes a decent amount of torque for a motor to be able to respond in (near) real time with some load on it at high angular velocities (such as somebody racking the encoder ring quickly).

And a side note to Jim and Jarred: I know that the more recent "official" stance has been to not share toomuch while still in development, both from the standpoint of not tipping your hand to the competition, and because the thin-skinned here couldn't handle it.

However, you continue to reach out and "involve" us in some of the behind-the-scenes goodies, and I appreciate it. I get the feeling that you both enjoy sharing because you are collectively just as excited (more?) about this stuff as we are, and for those in the audience here that are of the "correct" mindset, it's a unique experience that borders on collaboration. Thanks for walking the line.

-sc

 

[Willy Faes]

Remote follow focus

Remote follow focus

The Redmote ( or multiple Redmote's) can control focus.. if you want it to.

Does this mean we can use the Redmote in the same way (or almost) we use an Impero?

 

[J. Eric Camp]

People are latching on to specifics and not looking at the whole picture objectively.

First off, Mr. Jackson is stated to be IN the beta program, not that he IS the beta program. Jim never said that the beta program only consisted of people that had reached the levels in the industry as Mr. Jackson. They will of coarse choose a wide selection of users to test it in various scenarios.

Past that we are talking about the EPIC-X, not the 2/3". It comes at a price point and an expected level of professionalism. It is absurd to expect this to be sent to kid in wisconsin with no experience what so ever for "lowest common denominator" testing.

The 2/3" will have it's day. It's just not today.

Also, I came here to ask if the AKS ports on the new system will have surpassed the 1.5 amp restrictions of the current ones? I am sure they will, I just would love to hear the answer.

(all persons depicted in this post are works of fiction. Any resemblance to any person alive, dead or fictional is purely coincidence.)

 

[Tim Hole]

Still crossing my fingers that there will be the possibility of an Overlay mode either on the EVF or the LCD for frame matching from a still image stored in the camera...either now or in the future.

Please!!!!

PS. I personally would rather five cameras beta tested by the likes of Gibby,OffHollywood,Peter or the many others on this forum who know what the hell they are talking about, than a thousand newbie/inexperienced filmmakers. Its stupid to think otherwise. You have to have the experience to know what to look out for. There is little things that might happen to most of us don't even notice or quirks that only an everyday user would understand. ITS THAT SIMPLE. Don't even know why we are discussing it.

 

[Sami S]

Yes you are right, it should ONLY be tested by professional filmmakers who can't anticipate the behavior of less sophisticated users. Right.

It does make sense. People who have the expertise with Red one won't take days getting their heads around the basics. From the sound of it these cameras will have plenty of new things even for the more sophisticated users. It could take months to establish a trusted relationship and common language that there already is with loads of people.

This practise saves time, gets the products to everyone sooner and we can always come back to the forum to voice our ideas when the cameras are in our hands. After all software can be tweaked endlessly even after release dates.

 

[Steve Gibby]

The Redmote ( or multiple Redmote's) can control focus.. if you want it to.

And on the fixed 8x lens.. remember the ring on the lens is electronic. Which means you can program it to control focus. or iris. or zoom. Some people might want to touch focus or auto focus and use that ring for zoom control. Some might not. The choice is yours.

Very cool...I see tons of practical possibilities with this :thumbsup:

I'll obviously use Epic when I need higher resolutions and/or frame rates, but the fixed lens Scarlet will go everywhere with me. It will be my guerilla, under the radar, run n' gun, and POV camera to get quick 1080p RGB or 3k Redcode Raw images.

Thanks for the features announced so far on the fixed lens Scarlet! I seriously think you guys have the flick on the production possibilities for the camera. I'll look forward to the November 30 announcement.

 

[Tim Hole]

Thanks for the features announced so far on the fixed lens Scarlet! I seriously think you guys have the flick on the production possibilities for the camera. I'll look forward to the November 30 announcement.

Hear hear...

Its exciting to know that one of the worlds most advanced and up-to-date camera systems will be within our reach soon...whether its EPIC or Fixed Scarlet it matters little - all the systems that have been outlined are so well thought out and I can feel the system is going to intuitive and a pleasure to operate. Roll on NOV 30! (funnily enough is the target date for finishing the third draft of my feature. I like how these things work out!!!)

 

[Luke Stewart]

Still crossing my fingers that there will be the possibility of an Overlay mode either on the EVF or the LCD for frame matching from a still image stored in the camera...either now or in the future.

Please!!!!

This would rock so hard.