New Canon Speed Booster

[Christoffer Glans]

Canon released its new camera and together with that an EF to RF speed booster
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1595393-REG/canon_mount_adapter_ef_eos_r.html

Wondering though, since it has a screw set to lock it into place, if it's possible to lock a mount to the Komodo in a similar way? If it has play while focusing, that's gonna be pretty bad. This is a worry for the normal adapter as well.

 

[Phil Holland]

The ears are removable, however..... The foot placement is a bigger question mark as it might not clear the bottom chin of Komodo.

I've seen the C70 in person, but not the adapter.

Whatever adapters you use if you want no play you need a rigid support via foot or other designs. For EF whoever makes the locking adapter first will be likely rewarded with sales.

For PL, well that's kinda the name of the game.

 

[Kwan Khan]

 

[Christoffer Glans]

The ears are removable, however..... The foot placement is a bigger question mark as it might not clear the bottom chin of Komodo.

I've seen the C70 in person, but not the adapter.

Whatever adapters you use if you want no play you need a rigid support via foot or other designs. For EF whoever makes the locking adapter first will be likely rewarded with sales.

For PL, well that's kinda the name of the game.

I think it's gonna work, but if not that's such a letdown. Where does the bottom chin start? If it's right at the RF mount metal I think it aligns and it will work.
But that would mean the foot can also be used for a bottom plate lock?

I seriously hope that Red or any of the other Komodo accessory developers look at this. If we have a riser or bottom plate that also has a screw lock for the adapter foot. The current risers should give room for such an improvement.

If the quality of the glass in this adapter is as good as they say, the whole downside of metabones adapters are gone and we can seriously look at getting FF images on regular s35. My CN-E series, especially the T1.2 lenses will look insane with this adapter at around an efficient T0.7. :drool:

 

[Tommaso Alvisi]

My CN-E series, especially the T1.2 lenses will look insane with this adapter at around an efficient T0.7. :drool:

With that nice play between the lens and the adapter which all the motors love and it really helps in getting those artsy image shifts when changing focus direction ;-P

I'd wait a rehouse of the optical unit + electronics in a positive lock adapter from C7...or probably Metabones will come out with a cine version of their RF to EOS SpeedBooster soon...

 

[Andy Roberts]

It is going to work.

 

[Timothy Jones]

Does this mean my canon CN-E 15.5-47 and 30-105 2.8 super 35 zoom will now be full frame 2.0 ?
If so, oh my god!

 

[Andy Roberts]

Does this mean my canon CN-E 15.5-47 and 30-105 2.8 super 35 zoom will now be full frame 2.0 ?

This speedbooster is for FULL FRAME lenses... it takes a full frame FOV and converges the light down to an S35 sensor. An S35 lens would vignette seriously with this speedbooster.

So the answer to your question is: not really. An S35 lens on an S35 Komodo sensor camera does not benefit from this adapter except for possibly 4K cropped mode or somewhere near there.

 

[Timothy Jones]

It won’t be too long until these start coming in full frame though. I bet Red already has a full frame Komodo in the works . And I bet canon will have one soon too.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

With that nice play between the lens and the adapter which all the motors love and it really helps in getting those artsy image shifts when changing focus direction ;-P

I'd wait a rehouse of the optical unit + electronics in a positive lock adapter from C7...or probably Metabones will come out with a cine version of their RF to EOS SpeedBooster soon...

Except, the foot might be used for locking it into place. I don't have much faith in Metabones, their optical quality is the main reason I never bought one. The Canon speed booster is said to have superior optical quality and since it's made by Canon, it will probably work better with their lenses. There's no point in having a better built Metabones speed booster if the optical quality isn't good enough.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

It won’t be too long until these start coming in full frame though. I bet Red already has a full frame Komodo in the works . And I bet canon will have one soon too.

It will be long before we see this. They need to solve getting a s35mm global sensor to full frame size, which is easier said than done. Then we will probably have a whole new line of DSMC3s before we see any update to Komodo. I'd say two to three years before a new Komodo.

Then, there's the actual speed boosting side of it, you get more light onto the sensor, which helps with low light scenarios.

 

[Tommaso Alvisi]

Except, the foot might be used for locking it into place. I don't have much faith in Metabones, their optical quality is the main reason I never bought one. The Canon speed booster is said to have superior optical quality and since it's made by Canon, it will probably work better with their lenses. There's no point in having a better built Metabones speed booster if the optical quality isn't good enough.

reread my post ;-P

locking the foot of the adapter is a given...as I wrote the play will be between the lens and the adapter too, unless using an EOS mount with positive lock...you'll see...first time you'll use a WFF...image shift party!

 

[Björn Benckert]

reread my post ;-P

locking the foot of the adapter is a given...as I wrote the play will be between the lens and the adapter too, unless using an EOS mount with positive lock...you'll see...first time you'll use a WFF...image shift party!

Yes to bad, that Kommodo does not have a similar lens mount system as DSMC imagine if they would have just made a distance block with pass trough electronics and then made it so we could use normal red mounts with longer screws. as the canon mount on Komodo is flimsy and then most will use it with adapters, and many with EF mounts that is quite flimsy as well. I think there will be a lot of "arty" focus things resulting from it.

Also if boosting canon EF glas most wider lenses allready suffer towards the corners, so even if you gain some speed and give your lens a shorter focal length you also introduce some stuff that is nicely avoided when using a smaller frame of the lens projection.

As I see it Speedboosing is something metbones was very good at marketing as something that made small sensors look "Larger format". But in reality you just gain some speed and shorten your focal length and its not really the optimal way to get that result. Better to use lenses made for the format that is normally both faster and sharper and has less oddities than using an adapter to covert a FF lens. Especially as it really is like Tommaso says, The Canon mounts are not really built to be used with big cinema glas motors, matte boxes etc. and especially not if adding one more layer of play in between the camera and lens.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Yes to bad, that Kommodo does not have a similar lens mount system as DSMC imagine if they would have just made a distance block with pass trough electronics and then made it so we could use normal red mounts with longer screws. as the canon mount on Komodo is flimsy and then most will use it with adapters, and many with EF mounts that is quite flimsy as well. I think there will be a lot of "arty" focus things resulting from it.

Also if boosting canon EF glas most wider lenses allready suffer towards the corners, so even if you gain some speed and give your lens a shorter focal length you also introduce some stuff that is nicely avoided when using a smaller frame of the lens projection.

As I see it Speedboosing is something metbones was very good at marketing as something that made small sensors look "Larger format". But in reality you just gain some speed and shorten your focal length and its not really the optimal way to get that result. Better to use lenses made for the format that is normally both faster and sharper and has less oddities than using an adapter to covert a FF lens. Especially as it really is like Tommaso says, The Canon mounts are not really built to be used with big cinema glas motors, matte boxes etc. and especially not if adding one more layer of play in between the camera and lens.

It is definitely a cost issue. However the nightmare of uncontrolled image shift should really make the positive locking mounts mandatory for motion cameras, especially ones labeled "pro cinema"

 

[Christoffer Glans]

reread my post ;-P

locking the foot of the adapter is a given...as I wrote the play will be between the lens and the adapter too, unless using an EOS mount with positive lock...you'll see...first time you'll use a WFF...image shift party!

I understand you base your assumption on the metabones adapter? How do you know there is such a bad play with the new Canon one that's not even out? Not saying you are wrong, I'm saying how do you know the problems when no one has worked with it yet?

 

[Christoffer Glans]

The Canon mounts are not really built to be used with big cinema glas motors, matte boxes etc. and especially not if adding one more layer of play in between the camera and lens.

The Canon speed booster is specifically made for the s35mm C70 and especially tested with the CN-Es. It's made for cinema use purpose. I looked into the metabones before, but judged it to be too optically bad in comparison to just use s35mm sensor format directly. If the optical quality is enough to be optically the same as using the same lens on a full-frame camera, then that's a win in my opinion. I've worked a lot with my camera and CN-E lenses and the play people mention about this combo does not exist in my setup. If there are problems with a speed booster and EF lenses, I just hope that are assumptions based on the inferior metabones one and not a reality for the Canon one.

 

[Björn Benckert]

The Canon speed booster is specifically made for the s35mm C70 and especially tested with the CN-Es. It's made for cinema use purpose. I looked into the metabones before, but judged it to be too optically bad in comparison to just use s35mm sensor format directly. If the optical quality is enough to be optically the same as using the same lens on a full-frame camera, then that's a win in my opinion. I've worked a lot with my camera and CN-E lenses and the play people mention about this combo does not exist in my setup. If there are problems with a speed booster and EF lenses, I just hope that are assumptions based on the inferior metabones one and not a reality for the Canon one.

I dont base my assumption on the metabones speed booster. I had one it was great for what it was, Used it between our BMPCC and FD lenses, worked great for what it was, But it adds play, as there is an extra mount involved.

Also to put it simple, a booster does not beat a well built lens. If a speed booster did, then Im sure Leica would have made Thalia´s and sold them with a speed booster and call it best possible s35 lenses they could provide. Now that is not the case, their Sumilux-C´s will always be a better option for s35. Its simply not optically optimal to boost a set of lenses with the same generic back mounted adapter as having the right set of lenses built for the format. Thats just physics / how optics work. But yes, possibly some will love the arty whatever look they can get by boosting FF lenses instead of using lenses fit for the format. But a large projection lens and a generic booster is simply not the best way to get a smaller projection, a purposely built lens is.

Then ontop of not being optically optimal you also got the fact that you are stacking mounts on each other, mounts that are flimsy. The lens mount on Komodo is, unlike a DSMC EF mount, without a positive lock mechanism. Simply the mount is quite flimsy. Then if your booster got a EF mount in front of it you are simply dubble dipping in flimsy canon mounts... Sure you can use suport and try to bolt things down etc. But its still 2 mounts in there that where built for electronically focusing still glas where flange distance is not so important. And to be honest canon did not really care much about back focus. Even they top tier still cameras have the EF mount screwed onto plastic with something that looks like wooden screws.

Its difficult enough to get good back focus with a PL mount. To get it with dual canon mounts involved that doesn't have positive lock mechanisms and also have that extra optical element in the mix... Maybe not the most reliable kind of setup, thats all I'm saying.

If I was you I would opt for a EF Revolva and get some good behind lens ND instead of boosting the CN-E´s. But sure nice to have a booster as well when shooting cropped sensor and such.

 

[Mike P.]

Does anyone know if the optic elements in RF to EF speedboosters are a different design than those of e-mount/m43 to EF?

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I dont base my assumption on the metabones speed booster. I had one it was great for what it was, Used it between our BMPCC and FD lenses, worked great for what it was, But it adds play, as there is an extra mount involved.

I was answering Tommaso.

Also to put it simple, a booster does not beat a well built lens. If a speed booster did, then Im sure Leica would have made Thalia´s and sold them with a speed booster and call it best possible s35 lenses they could provide. Now that is not the case, their Sumilux-C´s will always be a better option for s35. Its simply not optically optimal to boost a set of lenses with the same generic back mounted adapter as having the right set of lenses built for the format.

A speed booster is not made for those who can afford that level of expense. If people had unlimited budgets to build their camera gear package, they would get anything. I would get the Arri LF, Zeiss Supreme, Stabileye and anything top of the line like that. However, my business is that of maximizing output quality vs expense of gear, so what a speed booster creates is first and foremost increasing light so that low light scenarios get a boost, which most of the time in low budget situations means you actually get enough exposure. Then there's the problem on the wide side of things. Full frame is the perfect sensor size to go wide while retaining a fast aperture and getting shallower DOF. It's not just a look I like, it's also much harder to control wide shots on low budgets and if you can isolate the subject with shallower DOF in wide shots you get away with more. The only way to get to the super wide range with s35mm and fast apertures is with the high range line of lenses. Even CN-Es stop down on their 14mm making it super slow. So in order to get those super wides fast on a s35mm camera with cinema lenses that does not cost a fortune, a speed booster increases the field of view for the fast lenses you already got.

So it's a question of quality vs cost. If people had enough to get whatever they want, no one would bother getting speed boosters or mid-range lenses.

The lens mount on Komodo is, unlike a DSMC EF mount, without a positive lock mechanism. Simply the mount is quite flimsy.

Yeah, this one I'm not sure why Red didn't get a lock mechanism like the EF mount?

If I was you I would opt for a EF Revolva and get some good behind lens ND instead of boosting the CN-E´s. But sure nice to have a booster as well when shooting cropped sensor and such.

I was thinking about that, but I rather have a matte box with NDs and getting full frame for my wide lenses.

Bottom line is that we still don't know how good the optical quality is on the Canon. From what I've read, metabones doesn't even come close to its quality in that regard, so the drop in optical degradation is not there as previously. The fact that they also developed this with their own CN-E range lenses in mind makes it a perfect match if you own a set of those lenses.

But as you say and I was wondering, the play and flimsiness is a problem and I really hope it isn't bad. If it's not or barely noticeable, it might be enough for many types of shots anyway. At least having it would double the number of possible images on a set of prime lenses. Instead of me having 4 lenses between 24 - 85mm, I get wider and in between FOVs as well. It's quite an in-expensive way to boost the set you have and the camera's capabilities.

 

[Andy Roberts]

I was thinking about that, but I rather have a matte box with NDs and getting full frame for my wide lenses.

For indoor wide situations where you are starving for light already, you won't need ND. I totally agree with you Christopher... for those of us on a budget, getting wider and faster is what the speedbooster is all about.

What I wrote to someone else about EF adapters: EF with drop-in filter adapter, ideal for outdoor shooting where FOV isn't as significant, but ND is... then use speedbooster adapter for indoor where FOV is very significant (APS-C sensors kill wide angle FOV) and ND not needed... in fact the extra stop of light helps indoor light-hungry setups.