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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- DSMC FAN 2.0 Upgrade Kit

Patrick Tresch said:
What fan setting do you get in a 30 minutes long take (say at 23C°)?
How do you measure that you get 12% fan speed?

Pat
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... okay. Look at your redmote. Press button 7... voila. Or just look at your external monitor via SDI and set up for overview...

TOday it has been running at 14% during takes and 49% during preview. Hot day too. Beautiful performance. EDIT: I would just use silent rec mode again (if the room wasn't too tiny). It would start up at 14%, and slowly work it's way up to the mid to late 30%. I would set max rec mode at 45% and max standby mode at 75%. It will probbably never reach that, as its wonderful algorithms will make sure the camera is cool.

Another option would be to do what everybody else seems to be doing and use adaptive mode. Honestly, until we get to dragon I don't see any advantage in doing this. But then again, maybe your cool room will allow adaptive to run low enough to be inaudible. I wills tick with silent rec mode.
 
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I think everyone needs to wait till the fan comes out - and there is a test between the old fan and the new fan and show the noise settings. The Red One MX in my mind is the limit for noise from a camera. The Epic and Scarlet are so loud its distracting during a take and during setting up - it's a hairdryer. Its a giant complaint agaisnst the red epic and scarlet. I like that red is trying to solve the problem - and guessing by the delay on the product - they are trying to make the fan upgrade right. Anyway interested to see if there is a way to make the camera less noisy. The Canon C500 and C300 and the Sony F55 are pretty much noise-free - but then again - they are made of different materials - and use a lot less wattage than the red epic and scarlet. But I don't know what they do differently.
 
I'll have to make another audio clip with a dB meter so you guys have a flat-line as a point of reference.

Another fun test to do is having a hot camera and going to calibrated temp with the new fans. I know that's one area where the new bottom fan shows some strengths.

I've been using the new fans for a while now. Usually in the 65-70°C range depending on my whimsy. When used with these settings you should be getting similar results to this:



Phil Holland said:
Here's an MP3 file for you to download:
http://www.artbyphil.com/temp/reduser/phfx_DSMCFAN2pointOSounds.mp3

Details:
- Red Epic w/ Mysterium-X
- Fan setting = Adaptive @ 70°C
- Sennheiser MKH-416 Shotgun Mic (on boom pole)
- Zaxcom Maxx Audio Recorder/Mixer
- Increased sample by about 9.9dB to really reveal subtle sounds.
- Room size = 20x25-ish with a bit of reverb, matted floor mats on wooden panels.
- Room temperature = approximately 83-85° fahrenheit, no fans or A/C on to contaminate the sample.

There's been a lot of confusion regarding these fans, but hopefully this real world test clears up all that stuff. I've been shooting with the new fans installed and really it's a huge improvement.

As the audio sample states using the new fan algorithms and the new fans is where the increased performance is most noticeable.

Also, I should note based on my observations that on a typical shooting day the new DSMC Top Plate 2.0 acts somewhat like a heat sync and helps to dissipate/absorb heat.
Click to expand...
 
I wish I could say nice things about the new bottom fan, but I can't really. The only good thing about it is that it can move more air, but that comes at a price.

The size difference is okay, a little annoying but tolerable. However, the sound that the bottom emits is loud and annoying even at low levels.

With the bottom fan on my Epic-MX at the lowest setting there was noise, but it pretty much blended in with the room tone and you really had to stick your ear up to the camera to hear it. With this fan at the lowest setting (25%) I can easily hear the whine from 6 ft away. This is not a noise that blends in. It's very much a whine that sticks out and also changes pitch when the fan changes speed.

Maybe I am crazy, but this fan is crazy loud. Here is a recording I did about a foot away from the fan with an ipod touch. http://www.mrdop.com/memo.m4a Considering the fans on all my other computer devices and even the old Epic fan, I don't think I should be able to actually hear a pitch.
 
Matthew J said:
I wish I could say nice things about the new bottom fan, but I can't really. The only good thing about it is that it can move more air, but that comes at a price.

The size difference is okay, a little annoying but tolerable. However, the sound that the bottom emits is loud and annoying even at low levels.

With the bottom fan on my Epic-MX at the lowest setting there was noise, but it pretty much blended in with the room tone and you really had to stick your ear up to the camera to hear it. With this fan at the lowest setting (25%) I can easily hear the whine from 6 ft away. This is not a noise that blends in. It's very much a whine that sticks out and also changes pitch when the fan changes speed.

Maybe I am crazy, but this fan is crazy loud. Here is a recording I did about a foot away from the fan with an ipod touch. http://www.mrdop.com/memo.m4a Considering the fans on all my other computer devices and even the old Epic fan, I don't think I should be able to actually hear a pitch.
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Hello Matthew,

I think this topic has been covered. Few bother about the wine, good for them. For the others (like me) I decided to stick with the ORIGINAL Fan and the FanPlate wich is the best combination for a cool and silent camera. Keep your Original fan, I don't know if RED sell them separatly. Would love to change mine wich is allready 2 years old.


Patrick
 
I'm hoping RED comes up with another iteration of these fans... soon! Waiting until that happens before I spring for these.
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
I'm hoping RED comes up with another iteration of these fans... soon! Waiting until that happens before I spring for these.
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Red is, regarding the fan, relatively unpredictable. They announced the upgrade kit without having leaked any interests on that matter on RU. Not what happened with the Meizler, Prores Module, Odemax, Laser Projector. So they could announce such an upgrade anytime. But, I think, complains from high ranking clients will probably push them to do it sooner than later.

In the mean time, there are options out there that perform wery well. ;-)

Pat
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Hello Matthew,

I think this topic has been covered. Few bother about the wine, good for them. For the others (like me) I decided to stick with the ORIGINAL Fan and the FanPlate wich is the best combination for a cool and silent camera. Keep your Original fan, I don't know if RED sell them separatly. Would love to change mine wich is allready 2 years old.
Click to expand...

That's great about keeping the old bottom fan, but I had mine upgraded to Dragon so I didn't have any option for keeping the bottom fan.

Matthew
 
Isaac Marchionna said:
That's why I'm holding on to my 1.0 fan for dear life.
Click to expand...

Giving up the DRAGON, to keep a FAN.

Now that's an equation that should get RED's attention. Hoping to see an update to the fans that will lay this matter to rest. C'mon RED, you can do it!
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
Giving up the DRAGON, to keep a FAN.

Now that's an equation that should get RED's attention. Hoping to see an update to the fans that will lay this matter to rest. C'mon RED, you can do it!
Click to expand...

RED has already said you can keep your old fan if you choose. Not sure if they go ahead and change the new free fan upgrade and send you back your old version, but no one (in their right mind) is going to forgo a Dragon upgrade just to hang on to an old version of a fan.

The fan should be the least of one's worries when it comes down to noise. The Adaptive Fan settings have pretty much made that a moot topic.
 
I have the old fan right here not attached to the camera. I'm lost in a sea of confusion when it comes to this thread. The new fans with Adaptive modes is quieter than other cameras even, which is noticeable when they are next to each other.

I've been around with the camera and helped prep gigs here and there. Nobody I have stumbled across is complaining about the new fans at all. It's actually the polar opposite.
 
Phil Holland said:
I have the old fan right here not attached to the camera. I'm lost in a sea of confusion when it comes to this thread. The new fans with Adaptive modes is quieter than other cameras even, which is noticeable when they are next to each other.

I've been around with the camera and helped prep gigs here and there. Nobody I have stumbled across is complaining about the new fans at all. It's actually the polar opposite.
Click to expand...

Is your new lower fan louder or quieter than the old fan? Mine is certainly louder with a very noticeable whine in it. The noise isn't the air passing over the fan, it's the motor itself.
 
Matthew J said:
Is your new lower fan louder or quieter than the old fan? Mine is certainly louder with a very noticeable whine in it. The noise isn't the air passing over the fan, it's the motor itself.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't describe the sound as a whine. The fans do sound different. The newer bottom fan sounds somewhat like film running through a gate oddly. That's the best I can do to describe. I've already put up a recording in this thread.

The only other thing I can do is get a dB meter and literally place the shotgun mic pressed on both fans so you can hear the differences. Next time I get some free time and feel like tearing down the camera again.
 
I'm not saying I'm forgoing Dragon in favor of the old fan, but I don't want to have to run the 2.0 bottom fan, which irritated everyone who was on set with it. It may be different, but it's not better.
 
Which is the better mode for the camera Adaptive or Auto...I think someone said adaptive wasn't a good setting. Just want to be sure if Auto is best for the camera.
 
Tony Harris said:
Which is the better mode for the camera Adaptive or Auto...I think someone said adaptive wasn't a good setting. Just want to be sure if Auto is best for the camera.
Click to expand...

*tears*

Seriously though. Red ships and the firmware defaults the camera to Adaptive 65 degrees. We've used it that way under various conditions with nothing but good results.

There's different fan modes for a reason though, but if I had my way with this particular subject it would be.....

Adaptive for all.

The calibration is what's important. If you are within your Black Shade calibration it doesn't really matter what you use.
 
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