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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- DSMC FAN 2.0 Upgrade Kit

I think James Hunter is right here. I think I can hear that whine on Phils tests too, but it kinda blends into the room somehow. This is also how I percieve the differnece between the fans, when only using my ears, from a distance. But Phil, you say you had a 416 virtually touching the camera body, pointing straight at the fan? My mic, which is a cardoid Røde M3, is more than a feet away, and my sounds are much more loud. My camera was sitting on a hard surface, which of course could amplify the sounds, as the mic was pointing 45 degrees down onto the fan and table surface.

I've contacted Bomb Squad with my audio file. See what happens. But I have a feeling of what they're going to answer....
 
Phil, do you remember what the Fan Percentage was at, when you did the 70 deg Adaptive test?
 
Mine whines no matter what percentage and our audio guy said he preferred the old fan... Bomb squad is having me send mine in
 
I wonder why Phil is the only one getting different results... might be a difference in the quality of different fans? Some are better than others?
 
Phil Holland said:
...
- Once within temperature range the fans "normalize" and keeps the temperature within your preference. I use 70°C with Adaptive.
...
Click to expand...
I think the 70C adaptive is the "hot tip", thanks Phil. For camera/wildlife photography I am also using the new power reduction modes which greatly extending my battery life(the 70c adaptive with 10 second power saving mode extends my shoot time in wild life photography at least 50%). Only thing I do need to do differently is get the new tactical top plate, the default plate seems to blow air a bit onto my touch screen which triggers false hand touches.
 
The proximity of a hard (ie reflective) could constructively interfere with HF signal giving position dependent peaks and troughs of +-6dB.

An interesting test would be to touch all of the surfaces of the epic to see if It is vibrating (sound could be from the outer camera surface).

AJ
 
Interesting thought about the hard surface thing.

About touching the camera. I tried that. I tried squeezing some parts of the cam. Especiialy the grill. But no difference. I am pretty sure of, that the whine comes from the fan rotation itself. Either the engine or some kind of grinding.
 
I have been using the two top and bottom and there is a very, very, minimal electronic whine but not even remotely audible on a normal audio track. I've been shooting in adaptive set to 64 and have shot multiple multi hour shoots with no issues whatsoever. When I blasted the fan for fun on my last shoot people were surprised "oh yeah I thought Reds were supposed to be super loud?".

I'd say don't worry about testing the fan sound and frequency on it's own pointing a mic at them which hopefully you would never do in a real world production environment go out and shoot something real world with proper sound and I'm certain all involved will appreciate the new fans. I know some are questioning this but without a doubt these blow away the old fans(hehehe) and are a no brainier if you are ever going to record sound in an enclosed environment. Had massive room noise on another shoot and I was helping them remove the noise and I couldn't even find a hint of the fan noise in there... just a whole lot of AC. Adaptive is where it's at, set fan settings are not as handy as they were before, they well... suck(in comparison to adaptive), unless well you need them to suck as you are in death valley or something.

Perhaps using the Iphone voice memos or something universal everyone has and hold it at a certain distance in a quiet room so we can get to a common ground and see what is or is not normal... though there are many factors to take into account, ambient temperature, run time, camera and fan settings, cleanliness of iphone mics, Iphone5,4,4s,3s... etc but I would rather do that than have to send my fans in only to find out there is nothing wrong with them.

Happy filming! Stay passionate!
 
Thomas Koba said:
I think James Hunter is right here. I think I can hear that whine on Phils tests too, but it kinda blends into the room somehow. This is also how I percieve the differnece between the fans, when only using my ears, from a distance. But Phil, you say you had a 416 virtually touching the camera body, pointing straight at the fan? My mic, which is a cardoid Røde M3, is more than a feet away, and my sounds are much more loud. My camera was sitting on a hard surface, which of course could amplify the sounds, as the mic was pointing 45 degrees down onto the fan and table surface.
Click to expand...

My setup was the camera on an OConnor 1030D w/30L sticks in the middle of a large room with a bit of reverb (not shielded or anything). I put the MKH-416 literally an inch away from the fans/brain and you can here me tap the body with the mic gently even. One thing I can say is I can set my recorder up to make any thing that emits sound become something closer to a thunderous roar. I set the mic to what I'd say a normal voice range would be for talking dialogue and placed it at various distances and directions from the camera ranging from 1 inch to 5 feet without changing the mix.


Thomas Koba said:
Phil, do you remember what the Fan Percentage was at, when you did the 70 deg Adaptive test?
Click to expand...

The fan percentage isn't part of the Adaptive algorithm, but they are low. Real low.


Medavoym said:
I wonder why Phil is the only one getting different results... might be a difference in the quality of different fans? Some are better than others?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say I'm getting different results. Other cameras I've used that have the fans on them are getting similar results. If you're hearing something funky though, contact your Bomb Squad Rep.


PatrickFaith said:
I think the 70C adaptive is the "hot tip", thanks Phil. For camera/wildlife photography I am also using the new power reduction modes which greatly extending my battery life(the 70c adaptive with 10 second power saving mode extends my shoot time in wild life photography at least 50%). Only thing I do need to do differently is get the new tactical top plate, the default plate seems to blow air a bit onto my touch screen which triggers false hand touches.
Click to expand...

Yep. Running a bit warm seems to really make a lot of difference. Somewhere between 65-70C works great for nearly everything. The new DSMC Top Plate 2.0 does indeed have fancy machined vents with foam for the fans that are a bit aerodynamic on the outtake via a center cone design, which I also thinks minimize the potential air flow noise. That would be a real subtle thing, but they did it.


Jan Reichle said:
Just got my new fans (top and bottom) and have set it to adaptive 68 deg. So much quieter than Manual 40% run and 80% standby that I used to set the camera to. Very happy so far!
Click to expand...

Good to hear. After using the old fan settings for so long, the new algorithms are pretty much a night and day difference.
 
Ok, so I don't know what to think. I've had my own experience, my first impression was "something must be wrong this particular fan that I have" then I hear the first fan test (I can't remember who posted it) and I say "wow, that's how my fan sounds, unless they put out a batch of defective fans (which I doubted) I guess that's how it's supposed to sound, so I like a few others opt for the original bottom fan and (new) top fan combo, run manual fan mode @ 36% rec 70-75 as suggested by Rob Castiglione, I'm definitely not comfortable running my camera in adaptive at 70 especially not for long periods. Then Phil posts his test (thanks by the way) so I think, "hey, maybe I should put my new bottom fan back in.." before I do I decide to test and this is what I get.

https://vimeo.com/73274513
password:fannoise

So, as I said in the audio clip I'm almost 9ft away from the camera. The new fan isn't actually louder (thought it's not a whole lot quieter either) but as many have said it's just a different sound of which the original bottom fan is my preference as it sounds more like room tone, the new fan sound is a deliberate "whine" that I can see being a pain to take out. Also one other interesting note is that the new fan combo ran only 2-3% lower than with the original bottom fan, which I though was interesting. Again, i'm not sure what to think and really don't want to go thru the trouble to fill out a ticket only to find out that there's nothing wrong with the fan, that it's operating correctly :001_huh:.
 
Has anyone found a solution to getting the Allstar baseplate attached while the new front fan is on, or do you have to switch back to the old fan while using it?
 
Bah. Been meaning to spring for these new fans but all this discussion is making me nervous about doing so. Why can't it all just... work? With no disagreement at all, and instead a unified 'thumbs up' for the new fans? It'd make the decision so much easier.

Sure, the noise can be taken out in Pro Tools but that's work - which I have done and its a pain to do when it can be avoided at acquisition. There are so many other things to 'fix in post'.
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
Bah. Been meaning to spring for these new fans but all this discussion is making me nervous about doing so. Why can't it all just... work? With no disagreement at all, and instead a unified 'thumbs up' for the new fans? It'd make the decision so much easier.

Sure, the noise can be taken out in Pro Tools but that's work - which I have done and its a pain to do when it can be avoided at acquisition. There are so many other things to 'fix in post'.
Click to expand...


Everyone seems to agree that the new top fans are great. At a minimum, get those.
 
Will all NEW Epic Dragons ship with this updated cooling system?

Will upgrading to the Dragon sensor include new fans?

Jarred Land said:
The DSMC FAN 2.0 Upgrade Kit provides you with user replaceable top and bottom fan systems to provide a quieter more robust cooling system for your Scarlet, Epic or Dragon camera.
Click to expand...
 
Will Keir said:
Will all NEW Epic Dragons ship with this updated cooling system?

Will upgrading to the Dragon sensor include new fans?
Click to expand...

This has been answered a few times. The DSMC Fan 2.0 are an optional accessory and aren't part of the Dragon upgrade.

*edit* One thing I should add. Whatever fan system is in your Epic or Scarlet when sent in for the Dragon upgrade the front "logo button" get's replaced with a new Dragon one. This is in addition to the Side SSD Module getting Dragon laser engraved as well as the sensor upgrade, IROLPF, and a couple other things.
 
I've been on the fence about this upgrade for some time, but I think I'll just have RED upgrade my top plate and fans while the brain is in for the Dragon Upgrayedd*

*Which he spells thusly, with two D's, as he says, "for a double dose of this pimping".
 
Thanks Phil for saving me the digging.

Phil Holland said:
This has been answered a few times. The DSMC Fan 2.0 are an optional accessory and aren't part of the Dragon upgrade.
Click to expand...
 
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