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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- DSMC FAN 2.0 Upgrade Kit

yes I just realized that they won't ship dragan logo fans now, waiting for sensor to be installed, it's the same fan, just a different logo
 
Today I did a shot with my Scarlet and Epic.
The Scarlet has only the bottom original fan.
The Epic has the bottom original fan and the top fan. I set them both to quiet record. They both reached the top temperature around 70, give and take a degree or 2.
The Epic kept between 5 and 10% slower fan speed compared to the Scarlet. The Scarlet would stay around 40%. The Epic would stay in the low 30's.
It was in a stage, nice air-conditioning...
 
Jacek did reply. You have to make a kind of high pitched whiny noise for a while to get him to respond. My observations are that you have to remove two parts to make the Optitek and the front fan work together. The first is easy. it is the the locking mechanism that helps you secure the lens. It is easy to remove and put where you want. The second part is the outer gear ring. Jacek says that that is "bonded" on. It can be removed by taking out the three screws and disassembling the Optitek. It will make changing the aperture on G lenses a bit more tricky though nothing insurmountable. However, after some testing and further reports from other user members I would recommend that you only buy and install the top fan. Don't worry about the front fan. The top fan seems to provide most of the benefit and is very quiet. Further, there is a report that the front fan makes its own distinctive sound - Patrick Tresch put up a sample on Red User. It is not just the volume of the sound that matters, it is where it is located on the audio spectrum and I certainly would not want that sound coming from my camera. So I would from my own experience say that the top fan is a terrific improvement and that at this stage I wont be installing the new front fan. Cheers
 
thanks for the updates (especially Daniel and Rob) - these infos are helping a lot!

so I guess I'll go the top-fan only route until I have a chance to actually test out the front-fan inc. installation directly at/with RED (still no info on a possible test-unit at RED Germany/Berlin...). I wouldn't mind changing the mount (from OptiTek to e.g. PosiLock or RED) if the benefits of the front-fan (together with the top-fan) outwight the benefits of the mount. - which seems not very likely with the info available now.
 
Hi Peter. There is a kind of logic that suggests that since Red is offering two fans then putting in both will lead to the best results. However, I don't think that this is the case. It appears that they might be performing different functions. If you want an overall improvement in efficiency and the quietest camera then putting in the top fan may in fact be the best solution. It appears from other posts that I have read that the front fan is a real champion at cooling the camera in very hot conditions but that it might not be the quietest solution. However, I agree with you that if the front fan gave a noticeable improvement in making the camera quieter then I would happily sacrifice the Optitek despite its evident virtues. I guess another factor is that you can't really lose anything initially purchasing and trying only the top fan.
 
Paul Hazlett said:
yes I just realized that they won't ship dragan logo fans now, waiting for sensor to be installed, it's the same fan, just a different logo
Click to expand...

Kind of strange that RED don't notify "Dragon Fans" orders only will ship when Dragon is done! People want the Fan not the sticker on it.

My 2 cents.

Pat
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Kind of strange that RED don't notify "Dragon Fans" orders only will ship when Dragon is done! People want the Fan not the sticker on it.

My 2 cents.

Pat
Click to expand...

RED does specify this very clearly:

"Each bottom fan system is specific to each corresponding camera model and is distinguished by a SCARLET, EPIC, or DRAGON coin and grill."
So if you order "Dragon" fan without having a Dragon camera - don't act surprised if it does not ship until you have Dragon camera....
You can go now and buy the appropriate fan for the camera you actually have. Once you send your camera in for the Dragon upgrade - the logo is swapped to Dragon at no extra charge - whether this is the new front fan, or the old one...

:sifone: Peter

PS: If people want the fan (and not the logo on it) - they should just order what they have now - i.e. "normal" Epic or Scarlet (difference being the color to match the body). This is the same issue as people already putting DRAGON into their signatures and on their websites, marketing materials, etc. I guess they are also driving Toyota's with a sticker "I have a Porsche on order"....

:mad2:
 
Hello Peter,

Do you remember those time where Dragon where upgraded? This was the same time some Fan where ready for preorder. And some people thought it will be a simultaneous process.

Well it was not...

So people didn't get notice at that preorder time that the Dragon could have some delay and they should reconsider their "Dragon" fan order. So just some words to explain how things went. There are still some people waiting for a fan that is not available until 3 to 6 months even if it is allready available in the "Epic" version.

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:


Pat



Peter Majtan said:
RED does specify this very clearly:

"Each bottom fan system is specific to each corresponding camera model and is distinguished by a SCARLET, EPIC, or DRAGON coin and grill."
So if you order "Dragon" fan without having a Dragon camera - don't act surprised if it does not ship until you have Dragon camera....
You can go now and buy the appropriate fan for the camera you actually have. Once you send your camera in for the Dragon upgrade - the logo is swapped to Dragon at no extra charge - whether this is the new front fan, or the old one...

:sifone: Peter

PS: If people want the fan (and not the logo on it) - they should just order what they have now - i.e. "normal" Epic or Scarlet (difference being the color to match the body). This is the same issue as people already putting DRAGON into their signatures and on their websites, marketing materials, etc. I guess they are also driving Toyota's with a sticker "I have a Porsche on order"....

:mad2:
Click to expand...
 
Just got the top and frontbfan installled and so far i have been underwhelmed. Further testing is in order, but initial results indicate at a given fan % the camera is noiser than before, (well, there are two fans, well three vs 1) but when you lower % to what seem like similar noise levels (32% seems to be the new 38%) you get same record time as you did with old settings before hitting a certain fan setting.
I may re seat front one see if that is somehow less than ideal. I have yet to explore new settings "quiet record" etc.
what are other's thoughts?
 
@Nate,

The new fans at 100% are able to push & suck considerably more air than the original fan @ 100%.

At the same % levels - you would therefore be moving more air (and therefore a lower camera temperature) with the new fans.

AJ
 
Yes, but if same levels are now a bit noisier, and you then run them lower for less noise and get same record time as you did with higher setting on old fan the net result is same record time till hit a temp, same noise level, just s lower % number. Again, i have to test more but that is what initial tests indicated
 
Nate Clapp said:
Yes, but if same levels are now a bit noisier, and you then run them lower for less noise and get same record time as you did with higher setting on old fan the net result is same record time till hit a temp, same noise level, just s lower % number. Again, i have to test more but that is what initial tests indicated
Click to expand...

Just replied to another thread about this. New fans + new algorithms = we have to rethink how we are used to working with our fan settings.


First thing. If you are running in "Manual" mode the new fans are louder and when pushed to max they are certainly louder. That's because they are moving considerably more air.


Okay. Stop using "Manual" and give "Adaptive" a try in your fan settings.


I have mine set to 70°, which I have confirmed with Red that is same and fine for daily operation. Get your camera up to that temperature and black shade then try shooting.
In standard conditions the fans are exceptionally quiet while rolling. If things heat up a bit you hear the fans slightly increase and then slow back down once temperature is regulated. Operating your camera with way will make the camera warm to the touch, but it's within spec and that's the important bit here. When it gets too hot, it starts to regulate. That's the whole thing really.

Additionally, there's another interesting thing I have observed, and that involves the DSMC Top Plate 2.0. It has proper holes with circular foam rings to mate with the top fans. As the camera heats up you'll notice the new Top Plate also getting rather warm. It's actually serving somewhat as a heat sync if you think about it. It's been hinted at, although no official word, that this is another "feature" from this whole combo.


I have been shooting for weeks this way and I'm very, very impressed by the improvement.
 
Ah, that is beginning to make some sense. I was a bit leery of 70c setting. My 5 minutes with adaptive I didn't like it as i seemed to loose control of the fan which of course worries me. also I wanted to do apples to apples test first, having in the past used manual, so that is what I tested. I will give adaptive more of a try.
Thanks
 
Brent has also previously posted that if your front fan seems overly noisy to contact support. I'd check this by using adaptive mode - note the noise level once warmed up in adaptive. Red have assured me that like-for-like the front fan should be quieter in this scenario.
 
Just tried adaptive set for 68c and left it for couple hours. Much better performance, sound is quite acceptable for most circumstances and I would say that along with new fans deliver the performance I was looking for. Thanks everyone.
 
Can someone explain to me why Phil's name isn't in yellow? He's probably knowledgeable enough to be in Red lettering, but that requires a paycheck and a totally subjective approach, so yellow seems to be his best color, IMO.
 
Nate Clapp said:
Just tried adaptive set for 68c and left it for couple hours. Much better performance, sound is quite acceptable for most circumstances and I would say that along with new fans deliver the performance I was looking for. Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...


You'r right in wanting to compare apple to apple and use the original VS the new front fan and hear if at a given max temp in adaptive (or not) it's louder or not.

Compairing, is the only way to go to do things right.

My test showed the new bottom fan was louder even in the lower end of the fan speed.

So I'm back with the original fan until RED confirms mine is faulty. (wich I don't suspect).

Yes you can push more air through your heat sink with the new bottom fan (it's also rated the double Ampers consumption) but speed like 100% is not likeley to happen while shooting. And a loud cooling down during breaks is not the way I shoot.

I used mine original fan and the FanPlate in the Rainforest and Mozambique with great success (adaptive mode set to 70).

The top fan is probably RED's most welcomed solution of both fans they made to cool the camera.

We need to shoot a cool AND QUIET camera.

Pat
 
@Patrick,

"My test showed the new bottom fan was louder even in the lower end of the fan speed."

I don't this is comparing like for like.

What is important here is 'Fan Sound Level' vs 'Camera Steady State Temperature'.

From what I am reading - the new RED Bottom fan is superior in this metric.

If you could present both fans plots, and provide details of where the sound levels are being measured, that would be of interest (to me).

AJ
 
Hello Antony,

Here is my test in the same room temp and camera temp conditions for each sound recording.

Now RED asked me to send in the new Bottom fan as it could be faulty... I'll send in after my shoot in Peru within 3-4 weeks to see if it's mine wich is faulty. In the meantime, I use the original one.

The same temp conditions where used for the different setups starting @ 1'16''.

http://vimeo.com/70377910

Have a nice week.

Patrick
 
Thanks for the audio track Patrick:
+) The bearing sound of the FanPlate has a higher pitch grind sounds / louder than the bearing sound of the Red Orignal fan
+) There sound of the air going over the blades seems quieter (and slightly lower frequency) for the new Red Fan compared to the Red Original fan in Adaptive mode
+) There is a strange electronic sound on your camera with the new Red Fan - almost like an amplifier is struggling with an inductive load. Glad that Red have suggested an send-in investigation for you.

AJ
 
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