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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

More new color science...

M Most said:
Are there any plans for a "RedcolorFilm" color matrix as well? The gamma curve has never been as big an issue as the color matrix in terms of a translation to a film centric pipeline.

Of course, there is also the larger quesiton of whether a film centric pipeline is something that is really needed now and into the future. Personally, I'd really like to see a faster move towards ACES rather than continual introduction of new gamma curves and color matrices, particularly given that Jim has indicated planned support for it already. The quicker there's an agreed upon universal approach the quicker the inevitable confusion begins to end. I really do appreciate the effort to provide better images along with the newer hardware, but the staggered introduction of all this stuff has led to a situation where production may be looking at something different than post, and the VFX company may be doing file transcodes that are significantly different than the grading facility is getting from the same R3D files. Having already experienced the results of this on a television series, I'm not anxious to see it continue. The introductions really need to be simultaneous on camera, Red software, and the SDK so that all of us can at least technically be on the same page.
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I think Jim is aiming for the 3rd formula that he mentioned "the feel" factor, but you made a valid point. I hope there is a standard that everybody is comfortable with. Altho other things may happen if you do this, that someone will come into the picture and say "i want that setting back, i cannot use the new software because the setting doesnt exist"
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
so where does that leave redcolor2?
just for people who want extra punch (pre post) in the colors?
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I think you will be able to use them both, currently I can process footage with both Red Gamma and Red Color settings, because one is a matrix the other a Gamma.
 
First of all I have to thank Jim and his good team for all improvements .
Is the new color since Effect the Exposure metering? & do we now can use our light meters with default ASA like traditional film exposing method?
 
Thanks Jim.

Sounds pretty good and promising.

Looking forward to test it soon with some of my old M and MX footage.
 
Elsie N said:
Since about the only thing that can totally ruin a shot it seems is being out of focus, I would have paid more attention to focus at the beginning. Anything in the works to refocus old footage?
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Wait for my new family of plugins:
ReFocus seems to be what you need.
It is in the ReShoot-Bundle together with ReCast and ReWrite.

;-)

Serious mode on//

Seems we may need a new whitebook?

1) Shoot and do a technical grade on STORM with RC2.
2) Export and edit in Avid / FC
3) Conform and export in STORM with RedLogFilm for CC

Right?

Jochen
 
M Most said:
The introductions really need to be simultaneous on camera, Red software, and the SDK so that all of us can at least technically be on the same page.
Click to expand...
I would like to see Red to do something akin to Apple publicly announcing seeding of the latest OS version to the developers. This way everybody would get Red SDK at the same time and all users would know about it as well. This would get everyone on the same page and developers and manufacturers wouldn't be able to blame Red for being late.
 
Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock said:
Wait for my new family of plugins:
ReFocus seems to be what you need.
It is in the ReShoot-Bundle together with ReCast and ReWrite.

;-)

Serious mode on//

Seems we may need a new whitebook?

1) Shoot and do a technical grade on STORM with RC2.
2) Export and edit in Avid / FC
3) Conform and export in STORM with RedLogFilm for CC

Right?

Jochen
Click to expand...

dat be funny
 
The power of RED is not just cheaper cameras but the real strenth lies in the constast powerful software update for camera and Post-production.

Kudos to Jim, Graeme, Ted and entire Red team.

My only point here is, How come a constant video update from Red which talks in details about the new updates coming every month for people around the world who uses Red Camera or handle Red footage who have no access to RedEducation which is happening in US / Europe to clearly explain the newer updates with examples if possible. Since I'm a Digital Cinema Designer, can update myself but not all camera owners, DOP, Editors, VFX Supervisor, Color Timers, Conformist, Post-production studios etc.,
 
Mike, the issue you seem to be describing isn't on Red's end, but on the producers' end, with those who might have a hard time accepting that the boat left the dock for a given episode before the new goodies arrived. Use it on the next one after that. If you shot before it, post that way.

Unless you chose to focus on cost and quality, over speed. Then squeeze more juice out of it. But if your deadlines are short and firm, then that is what is important.

I for one, do not want them to change this MO! And I hope Red will continue to plug away on their good will, hunting for mo' better stuffs. Thank-you!
 
Mikael Lubtchansky said:
Jim is this related to your July announcement of more DR and improved Colors mentionned in this thread ?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=625604&postcount=1

Thanks and looking forward to check this out !
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If it wasn't, it is now.

If we get a redlog-film'ish gamma-option on the on-set previewed RAW-view, but also the ISO/kelvin adjusted on-set preview, too - in-camera - it would be nothing less than huge.

I see that it can be confusing for some and really isn't the image they're aiming for or want to see out of their RED, but as an "effective" latitude-check it would be invaluable for quite a few productions. If you cannot see the use for it: Don't use it.

I have actually thought that there should maybe be 2 sets of firmware, one labeled "for DI use", with a lot LESS options, that forces one to use the camera "right" when it comes to latitude and exposure, and one "video" firmware, where the cam is optimized for being more of a direct-to-delivery video-cam.

OK- That's extreme, but I have seen quite a few extremely BAD results, because the DP doesn't know what to look for in the image. And hey: You shouldn't need to get a RED education to shoot, it's basically a very easy and straightforeward manual filmlike-RAWcamera where most film-knowledge applies - it just doesn't look like that on set. And that's where the exposure is done - after all...

here's what the previews of the same shot could look like (these are the same shot @ t.5,6, ND 1.2 and masterPrimes):

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=652751&postcount=31

One looks both over-and underexposed, blows pretty harshly, and indicates a pretty low latitude in the camera (redGamma), the other looks totally unproblematic for post (redlogFilm)
I would have loved to be able to see the latter on set.

On the MX, noise in the lowlights isn't really an issue anymore, but I would love such a preview to be available for both M and MX. The M is still a very capable camera in many ways.

Redcolor2 sounds very smart, too.
 
Jannard said:
Coming soon are three new settings you will want to know about.

REDcolor2- more natural color with a bit less saturation than REDcolor.
REDgamma2- more "filmic" looking instant grade. Highlights roll off more smoothly than REDgamma. This is now my default setting.
REDlogFilm- This the the REDlog replacement. It is the flattest image and holds the absolute maximum dynamic range seen by the sensor. It is a grader's dream. Info you thought wasn't there will magically appear.

The best part of shooting RAW is the ability to open old files and have them look brand new again... and better.

Legacy settings, like REDspace, REDcolor and REDgamma, are still available. But you will want to look closely at the newer ones.

Jim
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Awesome! I can't wait to see them. This sounds like exactly what I've been waiting for. :)

It would be immensely useful to be able to push a user button and show REDlog F in camera... similar to the "RAW" mode right now but significantly more useful for DPs and DITs who are used to looking at a log or log-like image for judging exposure by eye or on a waveform.
 
Brook Willard said:
Awesome! I can't wait to see them. This sounds like exactly what I've been waiting for. :)

It would be immensely useful to be able to push a user button and show REDlog F in camera... similar to the "RAW" mode right now but significantly more useful for DPs and DITs who are used to looking at a log or log-like image for judging exposure by eye or on a waveform.
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+1 :)
 
Brook Willard said:
Awesome! I can't wait to see them. This sounds like exactly what I've been waiting for. :)

It would be immensely useful to be able to push a user button and show REDlog F in camera... similar to the "RAW" mode right now but significantly more useful for DPs and DITs who are used to looking at a log or log-like image for judging exposure by eye or on a waveform.
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Brook, do you think we should start a club? -:)

Thanks for this! I've felt a bit alone on this subject....
 
Brook Willard said:
Awesome! I can't wait to see them. This sounds like exactly what I've been waiting for. :)

It would be immensely useful to be able to push a user button and show REDlog F in camera... similar to the "RAW" mode right now but significantly more useful for DPs and DITs who are used to looking at a log or log-like image for judging exposure by eye or on a waveform.
Click to expand...


Excellent suggestion and idea!!!
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Mike, the issue you seem to be describing isn't on Red's end, but on the producers' end, with those who might have a hard time accepting that the boat left the dock for a given episode before the new goodies arrived. Use it on the next one after that. If you shot before it, post that way.
Click to expand...

That statement tells me that you have very little experience in the realities of series production and post production. None of what I said has anything to do with "having a hard time accepting" anything. It has to do with the nature of series finishing, in which there is lead time at the beginning of a season that gradually collapses as the season goes on, multiple players involved in post (the dailies crew, the editorial team, the finishing facility, and the VFX facility), multiple cameras used in almost every production (just because Red is the "A" camera doesn't mean it will be the only camera, it usually isn't), and different software choices all along the line. Third party software isn't updated until two things happen: Red releases a tested, new SDK that the third parties can rely on, and those third parties integrate that into their products. At that point, the new version of the software has to be tested, bullet proofed, and distributed to users. Some third parties - Filmlight, for instance - may be fairly nimble at doing this reasonably quickly for selected customers. But there is a reason why, for instance, Monkey Extract STILL doesn't have RedGamma as a transcode gamma choice, but it provides enough value on other levels that a number of users continue to use it, thus causing incompatibilities of the sort that I mentioned. Chaos may be good for individual users, who don't have to deal with interchange between departments, production schedules that go for 7 months or longer, and post schedules that vary from 9 weeks at the beginning of a season to less than 2 at the end. But for those of us who work on these very real shows, the resulting differences in each department's approach, and the inability to reconcile them, causes difficulty in getting things done and compromises in the final product. Changing things in mid-stream only leads to even more of that, because it is difficult to impossible to determine when to make those changes due to things like late reshoots, new material shot weeks or months after material that it needs to match, and other issues.

You're talking theory based on little to no experience. I'm talking reality based on a lot of it. The attitude of "you have to keep up" is very nice in theory, but it's often unrealistic in practice.
 
It'll be interesting to compare the new RedLogFilm with Arri's LogC, which is probably partly what it's aimed at countering (perception wise, not in absolute terms).

Which makes sense, as film aficionados who have been saying how much they like Alexa's film-like image response curves are most likely just more used to dealing with log curves and hence relate better to that type of RAW image than Red's previous linear pre-curved images.

Cheers for the new toys as always Red! :D

Paul
 
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