Lose the "Visual Verbosity" please

[Mike Yonts]

I love the physical appearance of my Red gear, but my clients never look at it that closely. Usually they can't take their eyes off the monitor.

 

[harry stuckey]

Also having the word PRO blasted all over everything is a terrible idea. Any professional already knows this. It's like putting the words "Luxury Sedan" on a Rolls Royce. It's redundant and actually a turn off to a real professional. We know this and this is in my view yet another excess of Marketing departments the world over.
And this idea that Red's marketing cannot be brought into question because it's founder made great designs is a weak argument. Red Camera Company's ground breaking work is in cutting edge camera design - not marketing. I think they have done a wonderful job in certain marketing decisions, in particular, dropping the annoying middlemen from sales (middlemen are generally useless anyways especially in the age of the internet) This was an excellent marketing idea. So cudos for decisions such as these. But their "graphic arts" department need to have someone put the brakes on them. You must understand that a person in charge of graphics doesn't feel they are doing a good days work unless they plaster something onto something else. but sometimes some things like rosettes and adapters , simply do not call for or need graphics.

 

[Julio Quintana]

Geez, Harry. I also don't love all the military branding on my Epic, but I use cameras to create images, not to decorate my living room. It's not my company and the markings don't affect the camera's performance at all, so I take a deep breath and don't stress about it. You should try it.

 

[harry stuckey]

I don't expect there to be any changes, Red is already too big and there seems to be a culture of unquestioning acceptance by the loyal minions of everything they do, lest they be accused of "having a bad attitude"

This culture of unquestioning acceptance of "the big boys" (across all spectrums of life) which while being a regrettable human characteristic, is nonetheless very present here on this forum and I would imagine also in the marketing department itself (who will not likely take very kindly this fact that someone is pointing out that their "designs" are deemed obnoxious by a majority of their customers.)

So I am going to shift gears on this thread and ask representatives if they can instead simply identify the type of paint or pigment used - so people like myself can research what the proper solvents are to remove these unprofessional "Gamer" style detractions to what is otherwise and extremely well designed piece of professional equipment.

I don't want or need the word PRO to be written all over my camera in multiple places. Any reasonably intelligent professional (marketing or otherwise) will tell you that if it has to plaster the word PRO over the product it's probably NOT professional. This is basic marketing 101.

This is the same reason why well endowed men don't feel it necessary to brag about how big their members are. you just whip it out and it is obvious.

marketing 101
seduction 101

(also basic human sensibilities 101)

This is basic stuff. (I can't believe that the word pro would have gotten past mr. Jannard. But it is definitely a marketing MISTAKE, plain and simple.

 

[harry stuckey]

Jeeze Julio, I think you're missing the point. The point I am raising is that RED CAMERA COMPANY may actually WANT TO HEAR SUCH FEEDBACK, duh.
You and others are assuming that they DO NOT want to get valuable feedback on their products. Why in the world you would want to thwart the possibilities that Red Camera Company might possibly deem this to be valuable and actionable advice is bewildering but like I said, this is a common human instinct to not "rock the boat."

My point is that this thread, quite the contrary to "Rocking the Boat" may in fact turn out to be a VERY WELCOME improvement and may be adopted in future products. I am just trying to help Red improve their products. How this positive suggestion (which most people agree with BTW) becomes the target of animosity among others is just bewildering, but is clearly an American characteristic - Kill the messenger - That's the American way. But this assumption that Mr. Jannard would be entirely against what I am suggesting is (until he actually weighs in on this suggestion) is as conjectural as this accusation that i am "way out of bounds" by having the audacity to present what appears to be a very popular sentiment. What if Mr. Jannard actually agrees with my points here?

But I don't know that nor do you, and this is the purpose of D I S C U S S I O N. (discussion is healthy - it's how things get improved) don't be afraid of discussion.

 

[Logan Smith]

we wouldn't be having this discussion unless I brought it up so be grateful anderson and don't tell me how to communicate.

Yikes, this thread escalated quickly. I'm on the side of people who don't like Red's branding either but we don't need to read a whole essay about it, professor, or get so worked up.

 

[harry stuckey]

If you don't like reading essays, logan, why are you doing it then? In other words, unless someone is holding a gun to your head forcing you to read this dialogue - go read something else, problem solved.

it's a free world Logan (not really but)

 

[paul schefz]

so i guess it comes down to: i don't like it but i like rocking the boat even less?
i don't get worked up about this either but i am always amazed by the follow the leader mentality here...
is there really anyone here who actually does not feel somewhat funny when talking about a bomb squad rep? and that is in conversation with a fellow red user/owner? how do you even say that with a straight face to someone on the "outside"?
i guess it comes down to the majority maybe not liking it but not caring about it enough to NOT buy the product....and a small (active) minority maybe attracted by just that "club" theme....
i guess i would prefer red to focus on getting the product out....right...then to rework their marketing...

 

[Nick Gardner]

identify the type of paint or pigment used - so people like myself can research what the proper solvents are to remove these unprofessional "Gamer" style detractions

I don't have any of the stuff you mention as most if not all of my AKS are not Red, but I would assume they are laser etched. If they are, then this is a good fix -

http://www.cheaperthandirt.net/prod...dium=organic&gclid=COzn6tmEwLwCFQvxOgodK2kAEg

If they are infact painted on, mineral spirits should take the paint off and not harm the anodizing on the aluminum. If the part it's self is painted (black crinkle finish or other paint) I don't think you are getting the graphics off without marring the finish. The birchwood casey superb lack pens are great fort touching up lens barrels and the like.

Nick

 

[D Anderson]

we wouldn't be having this discussion unless I brought it up so be grateful anderson and don't tell me how to communicate.

This thread will end up locked/and or deleted and Jarred will think it is only the nuts who think the markings are unprofessional and juvenile. Lets keep the tone respectful so hopefully RED don't cup their ears : you never know, they might include our thoughts in the product.

is there really anyone here who actually does not feel somewhat funny when talking about a bomb squad rep? and that is in conversation with a fellow red user/owner? how do you even say that with a straight face to someone on the "outside"?

And as the poster above pointed out - yes, I would never speak of Bomb Squad in public. This forum is the only place I feel it can be mentioned without a little embarrassment.

 

[Louis Maddalena]

I don't see a reason to be embarrassed to talk about your BS Rep. They are great people and they have a relatively more interesting name than customer service.

 

[paul schefz]

BS Rep.

no comment

 

[harry stuckey]

Thanks for your input Paul. (it represents "courage" in a world where the lemmings would never dream of being so audacious as to actually disagree with the BOSS. (For what reason I do not know because there is most certainly nothing in it for them by living this lemming like "follow the leader" way of "thinking" - no benefits whatsoever) And like I have said a thousand times, THE BOSS HATES LEMMINGS and ONLY VALUES THOSE WHO PRESENT VALUABLE CRITIQUES AND RECOMMENDATIONS - (Most people in positions of power ignore or are repulsed by the attitudes of the D. Andersons of the world who operate under a false idea that everything must be candy coated "lest we offend anyone." This is not unique to this forum, but is a characteristic now of all Americans who are being programmed by the very most shallow and meaningless cliches such as "Don't be confrontational" and "Dont be Judgmental" And about a thousand more ready made cliches of the modern cliche based NON CONFRONTATIONAL losers of the world.

I'm not into candy coating, I call it like it is - the marketing messages emblazoned on every component right down to every rosette adaptor is downright ugly, is unprofessional and should be eliminated. When the predictable chorus of the lemmings feel it necessary pipe up and do what they always do, (kiss up and be lickspittles to those they perceive as the power that be) This is what causes the more thorough explication - which to some dullards comes across as "too confrontational" (hence the cliche based thinking)

I'm pretty busy guy, I don't have the time really for these long protracted explanations, I'm not doing this entirely for my own benefit, but to help a company that I very much respect.

I would much prefer to just tell the truth and have it be done with it - Just lose the marketing messages on the products - simple.

But nothing is ever this easy, so it always entails running the gauntlet of the timid obsequious lickspittles to get any results around here or anywhere where more than two people are involved in the decision process.

 

[BigLu]

Hi Luis
kindly go jump in a lake, not here to answer any of your questions.
Stick to the issue dufus. Stay on topic and leave your pissing contest in Camirillo where it belongs.
(I've been shooting since 1979 and just sold my Arri BL1 and Red One a few years back)
not here to impress you dude.

Let me get this straight.
So you have no current financial investment in RED gear? But you used to.
You've been shooting for over 30 but have nothing to show for it? Im sure you do just cant find anything on you on IMDB, music videos, commercial work or television.

Found your activism and investigate journalism work which is cool just trying to understand whats up.
Your a musician and have some nice art work.
Yet your attacking the City of Camarillo.

You dont have to impress me, I was being genuine.
I just wanted to understand.

Thats all.
Im looking for some kind of credibility, and im sure youve got it somewhere.


EDIT.
I stand corrected.
Someone named Elizabeth Stuckey owns some very nice gear.

 

[harry stuckey]

Dude, (biglu) that lake is waiting.
can you actually be accurate and correct once. who said I didn't have any investments in Red Epic? I was an early Red One owner and moved up to the Epic. Alright, so get it right.
As for my filming work I do not keep a reel because I am not at interested in doing commercial or other work for other people. I am only interested in my projects.
I have shot so much stuff over the years and never once even watched any of it. I shot 50 cent's first music video next the 3rd avenue bridge in harlem around 1998 maybe. (Grand master flash was the paymaster and when they hired myself and my cinema crane rental business I demanded cash for the job because it was a rap video and when I arrived on the set I asked flash who the artist was and he said "50 cent" and I responded "you mean fifty centS with an s?" he said no, "fifty cent" And I thought to myself, well that's grammatically incorrect. ha ha.
My crane company has been a longstanding fixture on the new york film scene and I have worked with my voxfilm production company which has been in existence since 1987. Shooting countless music videos and concerts, and independent films and commercials. None of which I care about or even have seen and certainly most I cannot even remember when asked by a person such as yourself whose claims of "genuinely" (new word) I doubt. I was the resident artist at Unitel/Editel for a spell and produced a television show called "Manhattan Bridge" which aired on both NBC and fox affiliated but was cancelled due to an incident where I included a scene with a girl removing her top and this breast exposure was grounds for the biggest douchbag on the planet (bill brandt of WPIX tv to kill my show in the new york market) I cannot even remember the countless artists and films I have worked on and to assemble them all for your pleasure is not an exciting prospect because I see nothing in it for me. I would ordinarily demand that your show me your stuff, but honestly dude I don't really care, and it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. For the purposes of this thread, it matters little if I am Haxell Wexler or your local janitor, the points I raise remain the same. Now if you will excuse me, oh genuine one, I have to get back to designing a lens rehousing for my Old Cooke Speed Panchros which I have had since the old days shooting on my Arri Bl1 and which now impart the most lovely effects of removing the digital-ness of modern cameras such as the red.

And I believe that lake is waiting.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Red is already too big and there seems to be a culture of unquestioning acceptance by the loyal minions of everything they do, lest they be accused of "having a bad attitude"

I don't suggest generalization of this sort.

The point I am raising is that RED CAMERA COMPANY may actually WANT TO HEAR SUCH FEEDBACK, duh.

Not in a negatively polarized wrapper.

It seems a number of of redusers want a Less is More design style.

Harry, if we could apply that philosophy to this thread it would be good too.

we wouldn't be having this discussion unless I brought it up so be grateful anderson and don't tell me how to communicate.

You have misinterpreted his post. He was expressing understanding of your impressions and politely letting you know you are overdoing it. Your point was clear in the first post.

But I don't know that nor do you, and this is the purpose of D I S C U S S I O N. (discussion is healthy - it's how things get improved) don't be afraid of discussion.

For discussion to be healthy tensions are better left avoided.

I suggest a diferrent approach.

 

[harry stuckey]

hrvoje, have you heard of the word "chronology" or the idea of "cause and effect" check it out. If you do you will find that my terse responses ONLY OCCURRED (A F T E R) someone deviated from the subject of this thread and brought it into the realm of personal attacks or general overall wimpish lickspiddlry - then of course I reciprocate with a bit of spleen of my own - tit for tat my brother. Check the chronology of the comments if you doubt it. If someone responds to my thoughtful suggestions with anything other than an equally thoughtful approach I will typically call that person out on his clumsiness. And this idea of negatively polarized wrappers as you suggest is way overblown. Sorry dude, not into couching criticisms of bad ideas in cotton candy niceties. I started the thread out on a very thoughtful and quite obviously popular issue, once the minions (who are present across all spectrums of life not just this forum) started piping up with their diversionary personal comments they entered the wrong arena, because I do this every day of my life (and have no mercy on foolishness or the fools who spout it out.) And again, remember this, A billionaire will always appreciate the no holes barred approach over the timid lickspiddlry which gets no one anywhere. You do things your ways - and I'll do things my way, that is the true red spirit anyways. I mean thank god Mr. Jannard wasn't so timid at confronting those who came before him, otherwise you would still be shooting on those interlaced donkeys called Betacams, (only they would call them super duper ultra betacams by now. Fortunately Mr. Jannard changed all that, and he didn't do it by observing the niceties of industry or anyone else.

Have fun with your "positivity" I deplore it, and attack every person who's cliche ridden lips such cliches emanate from. You're an adult - deal with it, it's only words. (or does it offend your precious and tender and positive sensibilities?)

 

[harry stuckey]

Now can we get back onto the original topic and ditch these dumb comments about "process" or "being positive" or "not being too negative" and refocus on the bad marketing decision which probably needs to be addressed. PLease stop talking about me, if you need to attack my style I will give you an email address and you can vent your spleen about my negativity there, but this topic is not about positivity or negativity or process, it is about an issue that is on a lot of people's minds and needs to be addressed. STOP TALKING ABOUT ME, I DOI NOT CARE ABOUT ANYONES OPINIONS ABOUT POSITIVITY, IN FACT A HATE PEOPLE WHO TALK ABOUT POSITIVITY THEY ARE THE WORLD DUMBEST USELESS LOSERS.

I understand some of you may think I am being negative, I just want to make this point very clear, don't waste your time, I do not care in the slightest what you think. In fact please think of me as the GOD OF NEGATIVITY, OK. I'll be happy with that. This is not a bad attitude, this is the normal operating procedure of any aware and awake person who is not gripped in these awful cliches about "judgementalism" or positivity, or "loving yourself for what you are," etc etc... >>>I HATE THESE PEOPLE<<< OK. lets just get that straight. So you telling me to be more positive or less negative - you're definitely talking to the wrong person. Ive been publishing the worlds most aggressive and honest news for since 1996 here's a sample - - http://www.voxnews.com/index.php/vox-radio/item/86-black-friday-massacre

enjoy the negativity my brothers and sisters

 

[D Fuller]

Why should Red go to the market with an aesthetic that follows someone else's? Red's market position has always been about being the insurgent. The "anti Sony" if you will. It seems to me that their design aesthetic suits that position. And when you consider Jim Jannard's history, starting in the BMX bike world, and much of the company's customer base: extreme skiers, skaters, snowboarders and cinematographers who shoot them, then these design choices don't seem off the mark.

 

[BigLu]

My mistake.
The AMAZING designs and works of Harry.
http://www.harrystuckey.com

Sweet work "dude".