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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Lose the "Visual Verbosity" please

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Harry - if you actually knew anything about marketing, you'd know that product design is actually part of it.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
harry stuckey said:
really hrvoje, please explain the exact mechanism that you feel that a third party pointing out an issue and while doing so also is engaged in a somewhat negative back and forth with some cliche based lemmings would have any effect on the decision making process of a large company a thousand miles away from this argument? I'd really like to know this logical flow to your thinking here.

No problem.
This should be sufficient.



The exact mechanism consists of:

-The issue pointed out
-The impression of the person pointing the issue


Workings of a mechanism (typically):

If the person presents valid arguments with a respectable approach, it allows others who disagree to re-think, and it allows others who agree to join the conversation and give proper feedback, with higher potential for the notion being considered (as it has been the case many times on this forum).


Potential side-effect of the current mechanism:

If the whole experience leaves a bitter taste, the chances of consideration are reduced and every other time the same notion gets mentioned it is likely to trigger a negative emotion from the past experience.


Location of the mechanism:

Red's forum with direct insight to user experience, miles don't exist in www and data is click away.


Potential improvements to the mechanism:

Avoiding using caps, using paragraphs, avoiding provocations or responding to them.






Wrong analogy.

You are not informing Red about accidental crap, you are presenting the notion to Red that their choice has flaws and you are doing it disrespectfully.
Reactions you minded from others, which got you upset, are a reflection of your type of approach.




That was a generalization. An incorrect one.
Hence the incorrect expectation based on it.
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Hrvoje Simic said:
I agree, It would be better if there weren't so many groupthinkers and pleasers who aim to please rather than be honest. As for this accusation that I was being disrespectful to Red Camera Company, Please point out where this occurred. in fact I was responding to disrespect and outright stupidity of some persons on this forum but never once was disrespectful towards red, In fact I repeatedly extolled it's virtues using words such as "AMAZING COMPANY" awesome technical achievements" etc etc. so please don't put words in my mouth that were not there. I did make comments regarding marketing decisions, but people in these positions sometimes need to be shaken up a bit.

And furthermore, they may have a very solid financial reason for this need to mark everything. Maybe it is an important part of their revenue stream and they feel that they simply must heavily brand these things to stand out or something, but I have been straining my mind to try to comprehend if this could possibly be the reason (and if it was I would accept it) but in all of my thought process I really cannot find a concrete marketing reason necessitating such obnoxious marketing messages on the units themselves.

The accessories will go only on red cameras which already have a huge logo, twenty or more additional logos, is UNPROFESSIONAL and violates the rules of class, in fact it is the equivalent of my CAPS which you hate so much.
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sorry i am in the wrong forum, I thought this was a feedback forum called complaints, I had no idea it was a forum for timid "positive" cheerleaders who don't like change and repeat over and over and agree with each other to "never change." ha ha. have fun cheerleading. and agreeing with each other. (actually that is not fair, most actually agree with my position on this matter, just the clique of cheerleaders and back patters disagree and are offended but this is not unusual, I always butt heads with those with this mentality (or lack thereof)
 
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get a brain josh - you sound dumb
(I dont drink alcohol)
I prefer LSD actually ... dufus
 
harry stuckey said:
sorry i am in the wrong forum, I thought this was a feedback forum called complaints, I had no idea it was a forum for timid "positive" cheerleaders who don't like change and repeat over and over and agree with each other to "never change." ha ha. have fun cheerleading. and agreeing with each other. (actually that is not fair, most actually agree with my position on thsi matter, just the clique of cheerleaders and back patters disagree and are offended but this is not unusual, I always butt heads with those with this mentality (or lack thereof)
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You're delusional. Just because a few people disagree with you doesn't mean there's a widespread conspiracy of fanboys trying to censor you. Be an adult and agree to disagree or stop rambling.

Go to bed.
 
4chan called . . . they're missing an dude named "harry"
 
Logan Smith said:
You're delusional. Just because a few people disagree with you doesn't mean there's a widespread conspiracy of fanboys trying to censor you. Be an adult and agree to disagree or stop rambling.

Go to bed.
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yea i think that is precisely what i said in the quote that you posted of mine, i said that it is NOT a conspiracy, just as few fanboys. my god man did you not read the quote. holy shit, some of the people on this forum are dumb. the stupidity and inaccuracies are ridiculous. the comprehension is next to nill. learn how to read please, especially if you are going to quote me, read the quote dummy.
 
I'll miss you "harry" . . . off to the troll burial ground with you
 
Joe D'Arcy said:
I think what you are missing Harry is how marketing actually works. Jim Jannard and his Red Team are some of the most effective marketers in the world. How many businesses do you know that are this effective without spending any money on advertising. Up until recently the sole marketing of Red was this forum, NAB, a lot of attitude and what you call 'visual verbosity'.
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i remember a fold out ad in a september vogue which i am sure was not cheap....but that is besides the point...
a movie camera is kind of a niche product, so marketing really isn't a big part of the business plan (other then trade shows, demos, and some press in the right places)
i am pretty sure that the details we are "discussing" here actually might have brought people to the brand who might not have considered buying something like this before....so i guess the marketing did/does work.....which is probably also why the exact same aspect of this product makes other people.....cringe....but selling cameras helps keep costs down, so who is complaining...
some people get their cars and put extra logos on their wheels and rears, other pay extra to have all branding removed....
i would really prefer not to have RED on the side of my camera and on the back of my touch screen....i would actually pay extra for it and NO i will not spray paint it or use duct tape or a sharpie....

but this is really a pointless discussion and name calling does not help anyone to make a point...
 
paulherrin said:
i've never heard of anyone having a TSA problem because of these labels.
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I have personally had a few laughs with TSA over some of the RED equipment. And I do mean laughs at "the bomb," even some joking back and forth about getting to bring a bomb on the plane. The first time I flew with the RED One in my carry-on, it made two trips in and out of the X-ray before the TSA agent finally looks at me and says, "WTF is that?". The best part was when another TSA agent came over to see what was going on and he started geeking out over seeing a RED camera. For all the fears and anxiety people put themselves through and stupidly silly concerns over what something is named, at the end of the day the TSA people are just people and they're not automatically stupid or overreactive.
 
I have a suggestion , why don't you josh and you logan get together and you can thoroughly bore each other to death with your predictable fanboy groupthink twaddle.

this way i don't have listen to your nonsense
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I have personally had a few laughs with TSA over some of the RED equipment. And I do mean laughs at "the bomb," even some joking back and forth about getting to bring a bomb on the plane. The first time I flew with the RED One in my carry-on, it made two trips in and out of the X-ray before the TSA agent finally looks at me and says, "WTF is that?". The best part was when another TSA agent came over to see what was going on and he started geeking out over seeing a RED camera. For all the fears and anxiety people put themselves through and stupidly silly concerns over what something is named, at the end of the day the TSA people are just people and they're not automatically stupid or overreactive.
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I have no problems whatsoever with Reds internal choice of terms like bomb squad, in fact I rather like it actually. just don't want to read about it on the actual camera unit itself. (which if the visual clutter gets any worse will start to show up there too. : )
 
harry stuckey said:
then you woke up and changed the sheets ... fanboy
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Yes, everyone who disagrees with you is a fanboy/lemming/retard. Your sweeping and unfounded generalizations have been noted.

What a great "discussion" this has been. Or, more accurately, what a great one-way, butthurt, rambling, spittle-fueled, unconstructive shout-fest this thread has been. Thank you for this amazing contribution to the Red community. I'm sure Jannard and the Red community at large is just reeling over the amazingly thoughtful, reasonable and succinct takedown of his marketing strategy that you authored in this fantastic thread.

You definitely didn't sound like a total nut-bag. I definitely didn't hear this song playing in my head every time I read your posts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9dde_mh9Ww
 
Phil Holland said:
It's an interesting one and I get the aesthetic issue. Initially I was like "these guys are nuts with all these marks".

After a few years now working with the DSMC AKS on set under various conditions it's pretty clear to me they do it so we can see them easier in dim lighting conditions.
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Bingo. I wouldn't trade the marks for anything and I wish all the other aks out there on the market would have more marks on them. Perhaps it's not necessary to actually label each hole with the screw size all the time, but I love all the marks when I'm stuck in a tight spot, in the dark, when it's cold outside and I'm standing on my head with a pen-light in my teeth trying to put something together.

As for the military persona and tactical branding, I don't find it to be over the top or a mis-match for the camera system. With support systems like the Gunner and using the NATO/ Picatinny style rail systems, we're open to using all sorts of attachments that exist on the market, outside the scope of camera aks. In retrospect, this is a totally obvious implementation and I can't believe it hasn't happened until RED did it. OTOH, no one in the industry ever looked that direction before RED did and with that, the move was a stroke of genius. Unfortunately, the bulk of the camera industry still seems oblivious to what is possible here and for some reason it's just not catching on the way I (or perhaps RED) initially envisioned it. I think the current attitude towards firearms and the accompanying tactical accessories probably has a lot to do with the industry being slow on the pick-up here.


I've seen a couple folks "black out" their Epics though. Looks cool, lacks that one specific bit of functionality.
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I've seen it too. I guess they only use their cameras in well-lit and comfortable environments.
 
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