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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

FCP7 to MC5.5 in the middle of a project

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Laura Creecy

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I dont make the rules... just try to help sort the mess. Any help from the community is much appreciated.

The feature I am on started in FCP7
-Transcodes from RCX to ProresLT 1920x1080
-Logged and sync to dual system sound in FCP7 with PuralEyes and some manual syncing
-Bins organized by scene with the new sync clips, no sequences, no multicam clips

With 3 weeks of shooting down and one week still to go, the editor that was just hired is Avid only.

My questions are:

-What is the best way to transition to MC5.5? Automatic Duck? I've watched a couple of help videos but they all start with sequences transferring. I am more worried about all the time I've spent logging and syncing to new master clips and the bins transitioning over. Will that stuff transfer? I can deal with logging again, I am more worried about the sync.
-If all the files are ProResLT, will there be any issues when it comes to online and linking back to R3D? I imagine it will be a DPX online because it is heavy in VFX.
-Should I transcode the last week also to ProResLT to keep all the media consistent? Or should I transcode the last week of production to MXF? I don't particularly want to have mixed media if I can avoid it.
-Any known hiccups in the Automatic Duck transfer I need to know about?

Any workflow issues people may have had doing this before?

OR
Do I throw up my hands and spend 2 weeks retranscoding to MXF and starting over with logging and syncing in MC5.5?
 
Thanks, I was just browsing over at Creative Cow after posting here. I'll copy any answers and problems I encounter over here as well for future reference.
 
Merged clips may be a issue metadata wise. I don't think I've seen a batch file from FCP from merged clips. Since the clip now references two sources, there may be issues downstream when handing off to sound if all file sources only reference video. Please attach a sample batch file...

Michael
 
I should also add that there were no lock-it boxes for camera, and the ACs are not great about jamming the slate all the time. TC doesn't match between sound and camera a lot of the time. About 65% of the footage has scratch track, making plural eyes easy to use for that part. I'm just looking for short cuts about having to manually sync the project again.

Is it a merged clip if in the browser, I right click to reveal in finder and it opens 2 windows, one to the sound and one to the video?
 
My computer is in pieces in my living room after coming home from set today, I'll post something when I get set up again.
 
It could be problematic since it really is a "container" clip that references two sources, similar to Avid's AutoSync. While one can generate EDL's, lists, and AAF's that properly reference the sources, ALE only references the clip you have highlighted and does not know about multiple sources. I would suspect the same from FCP. Now you can always go back and export batch files for video and sound, then resync, but I don't know how much you'd gain than starting over in MC.

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
It could be problematic since it really is a "container" clip that references two sources, similar to Avid's AutoSync. While one can generate EDL's, lists, and AAF's that properly reference the sources, ALE only references the clip you have highlighted and does not know about multiple sources. I would suspect the same from FCP. Now you can always go back and export batch files for video and sound, then resync, but I don't know how much you'd gain than starting over in MC.

Michael
Click to expand...
Michael,

If resyncing is to be done in MC, does the project still need to be designated as a "Film project" at the outset to able to adjust the audio and video alignment at increments less than one frame?

If so, do you recommend using 4-perf as the film type? And are there any drawbacks to creating a non film based project as a Film project? I ask this last ? b/c I kind of remember seeing odd timecode display above the source and record monitors (but I could be mistaken) in the last 23.976 video 4-perf Film project I've seen.

Thanks much.
 
I've been thinking more about Automatic Duck. My FCP project has a sequence right now for every scene, where every clip is on it and lined up in sync. I am just thinking if it would be a time saver to Automatic Duck the 160 sequences into MC (linked to the ProRes and Wav files) that are lined up already in sync and create new clips and log again - really only making the rework the logging.

... or start from scratch (obviously I am really trying to avoid this with 5TB of raw footage)
 
Peter -

There is no downside to creating a film project - and I always do for my video projects. 35mm 4 perf will give you the 1/4 frame resync. The only restriction it has is that subclips editing into the timeline cannot be trimmed past the subclip boundary (to protect metadata boundaries of certain logging workflows). I don't know of any timecode issues - you can display 24, 25, 29.97NDF, DF etc, as well as footage for all sources and timelines.

Michael

Michael
 
Looks like the batch export only references the video file - not the sound file it is also synced to
 

Attachments

Hey Michael -

I was hoping you could help me with a few questions - I am just relearning Avid again for the first time in 5 years.

I've done a bunch of reading up on the Red/Avid workflow now, and see the two recommended options:

1) Edit with raw R3D in AMA - recommended for shorter for projects because of drive space and play back quality issues
2) Transcoded to MXF (DNxHD36 1080p) and edit with native Avid files - recommended for features and long form because of drive space and playback quality issues

The later is essentially what I had started to do for FCP on this feature. I have 3 weeks of transcodes to 1080p ProResLT and I assume with AMA that I can import those ProRes files into MC5.5 and start to edit with them.

Having to Log and Sync again aside, I want to at least know if I can keep the media thats already been transcoded in the last 3 weeks.

My questions are:

1) What are known playback quality issues with ProResLT files - even though it is a low res file, its not native MXF so would it have the same playback issues as a R3D file?

2) If it is suggested that I keep the ProResLT files I already have because they will playback without problem, should I transcode the last week of shooting also to ProResLT? So as not to have mixed media on the timeline?

or

3) Keep the previous ProResLT files, and transcode the last week to DNxHD36 and have mixed media?

or

4) Scrap it all, and start from the beginning with DNxHD36 media for workflow with proven smooth editing and playback.

Obviously having to start over again is not ideal for production's budget, or the editor who wants to start immediately and wants everything to playback with out glitch, leaving little time for testing.

I am still leaning towards scrapping it all and starting over with DNxHD36 transcodes from RCX unless I am convinced otherwise. In my head having to take the time up front to do it right is far less stressful then having an editor yelling that something is taking too long to render or playback with dropframes because its not native media to Avid.

I won't know the spec's of the editor's system until tomorrow, so maybe playback won't be an issue.
 
Being a feature editor myself, I tend to lean towards the transcode everything up front to a low rez proxy. From that point on, everything is straightforward, tried and tested. Even with AMA to ProRes, you will still need to transcode at some point to make an AAF out for sound folks, etc. Now you are transcoding for that, but need to do it again when you make changes and happened to added another AMA direct link to the project. etc. Also, not having the direct BWF metadata to hand back to sound of needed would cause me some concern. Syncing in Avid is very easy and you're sure to have all the metadata.

So even with ProRes, I am sure you will run into a transcode - and if transcoding anyway, I would just do it right from the original sources.

My two cents.

Michael
 
Just an update - we scrapped everything FCP and started over in RCX/AVID retranscoding to DNXHD36
 
Laura Creecy said:
Just an update - we scrapped everything FCP and started over in RCX/AVID retranscoding to DNXHD36
Click to expand...

The time invested in this will be worth it in the long run.


Michael
 
AMA can work depending on the total number of sources and expected performance as I mentioned earlier. For myself, I still find transcoding to work better - especially as you start turning over AAF to sound post and as editorial continues - so AAF and Change lists needs to be transcoded each time you add a new shot etc. But AMA to under 20 hours of sources and using EDL to conform works just fine and is my tipping point. There are other consideration as well for transcode such as being on shared storage or multicam editing.

Michael
 
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