Log Grading

[Paul Provost]

Thx 4 tip

 

[jake blackstone]

Personally I would widen them all the way, so they start behaving just like standard LGG controls. At the beginning of session you can group all shots in the timeline and apply this wide setting node to all shots. After that just remove all of them from the group. This way you wouldn't need to keep re-adjusting the range.

Please disregard this advice. I tried to follow my own advice and I failed miserably. Changing the affected areas in low and high areas causes weird interaction, where if you adjust the high area wide enough, the low control just stops working altogether. And whatever you do, do not use the "mids". I have no idea what is going on with that control. At times it just blows the image into smithereens. Right now there is no finesse to those three controls.
As of right now, I give up. Offsets and contrast with pivot control are awesome. Everything else is a disaster, unless you'd flip to the standard 3 color control. But switching back and forth is not something I plan on using. It's too bad, cause properly executed Log grading is so much better, than the standard LGG controls.

 

[Paul Provost]

having no experience on Lustre or Baselight, I have nothing to compare to. But I find it useable in the default settings to "clean up" the blackest blacks without messing up the shadows. I guess it starts to act like targeted corrections using the curves but with ring / ball control...
I continue to experiment.

 

[PatrickFaith]

Thanks Guys ... been using the info on this discussion ... and have noticed my DPX files out of adobe, which are going to grading, looking a lot "better" (i.e. gradeable, smoother, more "filmish"). What i was doing before, the grading was "icky" and i was "forced" to use openexr to send to grading instead of dpx because of image issues. So my current takeway is "log" workflow helps on dpx output, which simplifies color grading (i'm assuming it's making the bits nicer in some way so that when the grading occurs, it is not clipping the wrong bits before it goes to grading).

 

[Luis Otero]

Thanks Guys ... been using the info on this discussion ... and have noticed my DPX files out of adobe, which are going to grading, looking a lot "better" (i.e. gradeable, smoother, more "filmish"). What i was doing before, the grading was "icky" and i was "forced" to use openexr to send to grading instead of dpx because of image issues. So my current takeway is "log" workflow helps on dpx output, which simplifies color grading (i'm assuming it's making the bits nicer in some way so that when the grading occurs, it is not clipping the wrong bits before it goes to grading).

Patric,

Are you exporting DPX/EXRs for VFX purpose? Otherwise, why are you not grading the R3Ds directly?

In regards to "grade-ability", I agree with you 100%: much more control, hence more cinematic feel. Still trying to "master" this a bit better, but so far, way better results...

 

[PatrickFaith]

Patric,
Are you exporting DPX/EXRs for VFX purpose? Otherwise, why are you not grading the R3Ds directly?
In regards to "grade-ability", I agree with you 100%: much more control, hence more cinematic feel. Still trying to "master" this a bit better, but so far, way better results...

I do export EXR for vfx, but when i bring the vfx back in, it often needs layer upon layer of complex compositing so it merges "seamlessly" - I do the compositing between r3d redlogfilm and other formats in a internal AE format called 32bpc. This 32bpc looks like REDLOGFILM visually in AE but is often a 10 to 100 layer composite of the vfx(raw,zdepth,shadow)/sfx(multi-pass motion controlled)/super8 & 16mm film(3d mesh mapped)/chaotic fabrics(i.e. looks like anamorphic grain) and the r3d. All vfx/sfx workflows use clips of redlogfilm from scenes as mini LUT's - so all generated content is derived from redlogfilm color space of the scene i will end up compositing.

I have kind of given up using the color grading functions of AE and have decided to just send this complex composite as a single DPX to Davinci(this btw also allows me to have someone competent [i.e. not me] do the final color grading). I tried doing complex compositing in Davinci but I know AE perty well, and had much better luck with AE(the other high end compositing systems that the big guys use hurt my brain btw). My compositing step is also a bit mixed with "editing", so is something i have to do. arghh ... i'm sure there is a better way to do it ... but that's what is at the limit of me doing it. This is for "puddles of light" btw, everything else i do i'm either doing concept art or finance (one or two companies away from production).

 

[Marc Wielage]

Changing the affected areas in low and high areas causes weird interaction, where if you adjust the high area wide enough, the low control just stops working altogether. And whatever you do, do not use the "mids". I have no idea what is going on with that control. At times it just blows the image into smithereens. Right now there is no finesse to those three controls.

I have seen similar issues with Baselight's Log controls; one call to the local office helped me set it up to avoid that kind of interaction. A lot of the Baselight users I know use a combination of Log correction and Linear correction. In truth, it doesn't matter as long as the monitor is calibrated to the correct color space. I agree that this kind of finesse is almost impossible with just a mouse; the control surface makes it an entirely different experience.

I know of a West side colorist (a major name who has three more Ferraris than I do) who color-corrects entirely in Linear, and has done some of the biggest DI projects of the last five years. So it can be done. There's lots of different ways of crossing the finish line.

 

[M Most]

I know of a West side colorist (a major name who has three more Ferraris than I do) who color-corrects entirely in Linear, and has done some of the biggest DI projects of the last five years. So it can be done. There's lots of different ways of crossing the finish line.

If you're talking about whom I know you're talking about, he doesn't always work that way anymore, he does use LUTs where they make sense. But his technique has been honed over many years of video-style work, so he's comfortable with that and a master of it. When you're a master, you can come up with settings that are very precise and yield the results you want using a very limited set of controls (he really uses only two, lift and gain). But if those settings are even slightly tweaked, the correction falls apart, which is why that approach doesn't really work well for others. That's why he's who he is, and the rest of us are not.

 

[Marc Wielage]

LUTs are mandatory for a lot of material, but that's not necessarily using log controls on the console. My point is that there's a lot of way to pull this off.

Everybody at the same facility generally follows his lead and works in a similar way; I know people at a totally different West side facility who also use linear grading. I think often, it's the "old guard" colorists who work in linear, simply because it relates more closely to the way they worked in the 1980s and 1990s.

I've gone back and forth and tried it both ways, and there are pros and cons either way. I think linear is faster for my style of work, but I do use a LUT and a base correction to bring the file in line before I start correcting. But a lot depends with the nature of the material and how good/bad/ugly it is.

I do agree with you 100% that doing this totally with a mouse is very hard. I was floored to see the eFilm guys doing this in the early 2000s, and yet they were able to get out decent work for a long time, prior to their adapting to control surfaces.

 

[RivaiC]

One thing i dont get from log grading is the way is behaves. It really goes weird quickly. Or am i doing it the wrong way ? Especially the mids control.

Is this how log control behaves in other di system ?

R

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

Yeah, I've noticed that if I adjust my mids more than about + or - .05, they start to show banding. Past + or - .07 and it's prominent banding. Funky.

I've stuck to Log mode entirely since it was released. I may have to try adding some Linear nodes on some problem shots I've had. Had to grade some footage that was shot on a 7D in broad daylight and no ND filter; super crushed blacks in the shadows, and blown way out in the highs. First time I've had to use a reverse-S-curve to make things look normal for a start. On most shots, anything more than minor tweaks to the Log controls (no more than 1.100 on the contrast, never off more than + or - .05 on the lows, mids, and highs) made things look . . . not better. I often ended up with the broad contrast of the image looking about the same, but getting some better tonality and contrast gradation in the skin tones, while also getting some details back in the lows.

Simple corporate-type video, took me probably twice as long to grade as it should have. Hooray for non-ideal footage.

 

[jake blackstone]

One thing i dont get from log grading is the way is behaves. It really goes weird quickly. Or am i doing it the wrong way ? Especially the mids control.

Is this how log control behaves in other di system ?

R

No, it does not.
All other systems use combination of offsets control, contrast with pivot point and standard 3 way color. Resolve Log controls are NOT standard controls. It's BM's invention. As is four trackball grading. No other systems use four trackball panel.

 

[Gabriele Turchi]

i agree , i can't find the way to use it at all ,
i emailed them about it ... i suggest you guys do the same

g

 

[RivaiC]

Hi jake, I try to use it for log footage with 3d lut that normalize the value as viewing lut. I have never try it with linear footage. The result is unpredictable. Offset is exposure which do exactly what it does, contrast is pretty straight forward and also pivot. The rest i need to switch to linear and to do it.

I hope blackmagic can explain its own invention, the way it supposed to be use. I know blackmagic is looking at this thread. Lets hope if wr will have any feedback.

R