KOMODO....

[James Winegar]

Hey Jarred what’s the latest state of manufacturing in China for Komodo in relation to the Coronavirus? Has Komodo already been sourced to different manufacturers outside China or is RED still waiting for the dust to settle? Looked like Coronavirus was on the decline two weeks ago but is back to growing again. Terrible thing for those affected and rough to see how it is affecting the world markets. Apple today projects earnings for iPhone to be down this quarter due to the virus. The health of anyone potentially affected is the most important consideration, just hope they are able to quickly contain and develop a fast acting cure.

 

[Paramon Ivanovich]

Komodo is not designed to be A level camera on high end productions

Mr Soderbergh would disagree

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Mr Soderbergh would disagree

"not design to be this or that" doesn't mean you can't do said "this" or "that".
Arri designed the Alexa Mini as a gimbal and drone version of the Alexa. All of its original promotion material focused on that and on the "not the A-Cam of a shoot" thing but we all know how things went for that.

Plus : Mister Soderbergh also shot a full length movie on an iPhone 7 so maybe there's more to how HE wants to work than how the gear IS INTENDED TO ? ;-)

 

[David Rasberry]

I question if many would buy a dedicated RED monitor for the pogo interface when you can buy a decent Android or iPhone for less than half the price of the small RED. That is what the pogo interface is designed for.
It is not the same signal interface as a DSMC so would need a dedicated RED monitor model of its own anyway, not interchangeable with DSMC.
The phone potentially brings a lot more to the table. Proxy recording, live streaming to a cloud service for instant dailies,

 

[Robert Parkin]

Yeah.. if you own both you probably will choose a DSMC2 for your A cam on larger shoots if you need Aux power outputs, lens motors, multiple monitors, etc. etc. etc. because to build Komodo up to do all that your size for size getting to be the same ballpark. And remember framerates... if you need high framerates you will pick up a DSMC2. And at least with Monstro and in some cases Gemini you are gonna have more latitude.

But.. many people don't need all that for run and gun or discreet or pop off shots, and obviously what the camera was designed for ( Gimbals and Crash rigs , Drones etc ) komodo is gonna win. And for those that want smallest package possible and do most everything themselves it will most definitely will be an A cam. I am seeing people do that a lot already.. Even some that have ALL of our cameras lined up to chose from.

I gotta say things changed for me personally when we turned that little tiny top screen on as a preview monitor last week.. I thought it would be completely useless to use as a monitor but I was wrong. I mean you of course want a proper monitor for focus until we get at least focus confirmation working but shooting like that with nothing else but a lens is so powerful and o so small with such a big image.

Yeah... I know It's my baby. And I'd be proud of it even if it was an ugly duckling and of course I am going to say good things about it.... but I gotta say... this camera really feels special.

I think this is an easily overlooked point from Jarred, rather than relying on autofocus, using PDAF for focus confirmation could be a game changer for pulling focus depending on the implementation. ie. on a very small monitor like the built in. Very excited for this feature!

Any word on start up times yet?

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

I question if many would buy a dedicated RED monitor for the pogo interface when you can buy a decent Android or iPhone for less than half the price of the small RED. That is what the pogo interface is designed for.
It is not the same signal interface as a DSMC so would need a dedicated RED monitor model of its own anyway, not interchangeable with DSMC.
The phone potentially brings a lot more to the table. Proxy recording, live streaming to a cloud service for instant dailies,

Those contacts could also be used, in theory, for monitor manufacturers like SmallHD to use with their own product provided they (or RED) make an adapter (isn't it how it works for the SmallHD something something screen to control a DSMC2 camera right now ?)

 

[M Harvey]

"not design to be this or that" doesn't mean you can't do said "this" or "that".
Arri designed the Alexa Mini as a gimbal and drone version of the Alexa. All of its original promotion material focused on that and on the "not the A-Cam of a shoot" thing but we all know how things went for that.

Plus : Mister Soderbergh also shot a full length movie on an iPhone 7 so maybe there's more to how HE wants to work than how the gear IS INTENDED TO ? ;-)

I guess the question we're discussing isn't really "is Komodo an A-cam?", but "what is an A-cam in 2020?" Since its inception, RED has been one of the central players in changing the definition of what a professional camera can be, and we've since seen theatrical features shot primarily on the 5D mkII, iPhone, etc. Do you consider an A-cam anything more than the label for the camera shooting the primary angle of your coverage?

Does it need to be designed such that it's well suited to the division of labor you'd find in a Hollywood camera team (e.g. operator and AC have their own interfaces)? With so many companies inventing clever options to rig and power and monitor cameras, leveraging technologies like 3D printing and mobile screens and processors, it's so much easier than its ever been to overcome the challenges of a particular camera...

 

[Carlos_Crespo]

Sounds like DSMC3.

Not necessarily.. Even assuming DSMC3 will potentially be smaller than DSMC2 it still won't have the small footprint and low power consumption of a Komodo. DSMC is designed amongst other things for HFR and that always requires a strong processing engine. Therefore it requires more Voltage and it'll be more Power hungry etc...

Komodo is in terms of size and handling in a perfect sweet spot for taking it anywhere and doing anything anytime. Having a tad more fps in some situations, while still not 'rivaling' DSMC2, is a bless.

 

[Carlos_Crespo]

I question if many would buy a dedicated RED monitor for the pogo interface when you can buy a decent Android or iPhone for less than half the price of the small RED. That is what the pogo interface is designed for.
It is not the same signal interface as a DSMC so would need a dedicated RED monitor model of its own anyway, not interchangeable with DSMC.
The phone potentially brings a lot more to the table. Proxy recording, live streaming to a cloud service for instant dailies,

I sure will use my iPhone 11Pro. However, that solution is not cable free and in harsh environments I really prefer a CABLE FREE monitoring solution. Furthermore, the battery of Smartphones drain very quickly when used in cold weather situations. Last time in Antarctica I was flying a Mavic Pro with my iPhone and the battery life was a nightmare. Although I could imaging the pogo interface will charge the Smartphone battery simultaneously..
Yea I know, it's not compatible with DSMC that has been confirmed by Jarred long time ago. If it happens, it would be a total new solution...

 

[Mike P.]

I said it in another thread, but I wouldn't be surprised if Komodo does to RED's line-up, what the Minis did the Alexa line-up; the only time people rent the bigger/older versions is when the Minis are all rented out (presuming you don't need VV, 8k, and/or HFR, obviously).

I just don't see many people choosing to use the bigger, more cumbersome cameras over Komodo's global shutter and substantially better battery life, especially if they're owner/ops (of course, presuming there are no obvious short-comings, like only 12stops of DR or 12:1 compression ratio).

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

I guess the question we're discussing isn't really "is Komodo an A-cam?", but "what is an A-cam in 2020?" Since its inception, RED has been one of the central players in changing the definition of what a professional camera can be, and we've since seen theatrical features shot primarily on the 5D mkII, iPhone, etc. Do you consider an A-cam anything more than the label for the camera shooting the primary angle of your coverage?

Does it need to be designed such that it's well suited to the division of labor you'd find in a Hollywood camera team (e.g. operator and AC have their own interfaces)? With so many companies inventing clever options to rig and power and monitor cameras, leveraging technologies like 3D printing and mobile screens and processors, it's so much easier than its ever been to overcome the challenges of a particular camera...

I think an A-Cam is, as you said, the primary camera you're shooting with but I also think that due to specs of each and every cameras, not all of them are made to be that A-cam because, and you also said it, a professional TV or Movie industry as standards that the gear is supposed to meet. BUT, anything can be an A-cam. I think my point is just to understand that even if anything can be, not everything is made with the intention to be the A-Cam.

But at this point it's more of point of view thing ? I don't know.
I guess the only sure thing is that if you buy something like a DJI drone camera, if you can't use it like a Ranger Monstro you can't blame DJO for that

 

[M Harvey]

I think my point is just to understand that even if anything can be, not everything is made with the intention to be the A-Cam.

You're 100% right-- and I've essentially agreed with you in earlier posts. Your comments just made me muse on that fact a bit more broadly-- when so many categories are challenged by the technology, and when ways of working change partially in response to that (for better and worse: you might light entirely off location power with LEDs, and you might also wind up with a gimbal-toting grip instead of a proper steadicam op...), what do we want to hold onto from the traditional way of thinking about an "A-cam"? I agree with a lot of the comments here about the possibilities for Komodo, just thinking about where it leads us. (Other than never again using tripods, as the images in this thread seem to suggest!)

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

You're 100% right-- and I've essentially agreed with you in earlier posts. Your comments just made me muse on that fact a bit more broadly-- when so many categories are challenged by the technology, and when ways of working change partially in response to that (for better and worse: you might light entirely off location power with LEDs, and you might also wind up with a gimbal-toting grip instead of a proper steadicam op...), what do we want to hold onto from the traditional way of thinking about an "A-cam"? I agree with a lot of the comments here about the possibilities for Komodo, just thinking about where it leads us. (Other than never again using tripods, as the images in this thread seem to suggest!)

Woooow wow wow calm down ! I WANT TO KEEP USING A TRIPOD !
(even IF the global shutter and size of the camera got me thinking about my shot planning on a short film and I may or may not want to do a hell of a lot more handeld stuff)

I get your point. And it is an interesting conversation. Coming from the post-production side of things (well, I graduated from a cinema school and so on but editing is what pays my bills) and watching and reading what's happening in our industry(ies) I think one thing that needs to stay grounded for sure is the quality of the sources. You will always see people who whant to shoot with an iPhone or whatever and output a "pedestrain" h264 but his should not become a norm. And I hope at some point, someone other that Arri will release a 65mm sensor because I looooooooooooooooooooove that !
(nothing against the Alexa65, just that the more the merrier)

 

[Björn Benckert]

Woooow wow wow calm down ! I WANT TO KEEP USING A TRIPOD !
(even IF the global shutter and size of the camera got me thinking about my shot planning on a short film and I may or may not want to do a hell of a lot more handeld stuff)

I get your point. And it is an interesting conversation. Coming from the post-production side of things (well, I graduated from a cinema school and so on but editing is what pays my bills) and watching and reading what's happening in our industry(ies) I think one thing that needs to stay grounded for sure is the quality of the sources. You will always see people who whant to shoot with an iPhone or whatever and output a "pedestrain" h264 but his should not become a norm. And I hope at some point, someone other that Arri will release a 65mm sensor because I looooooooooooooooooooove that !
(nothing against the Alexa65, just that the more the merrier)

Curious to hear what is it you love with a 65mm sensor?

 

[gabrielB]

Probably the large formats characteristics: DOF, noise performance, those healthy big pixels soaking up light, etc.

I think it's safe to assume RED is probably working on larger format sensors/capture as well. Digital still has ways to go to match the experience of something both captured and projected in 15 perf true IMAX film.

 

[Jarred Land]

It's clear that Komodo started as a completion to the DMSC2 line. But gradually, it has evolved into its own position. Hence, I'm still hoping that Jarred lets the camera grow to its own full camera line putting it next to DSMC2 and Ranger. Not just being a 'utilitarian add on' camera.

Meaning, will Komodo get:
1. RED specific accessories like a foldable display that's attached cable free to the pins, rotatable and tiltable EVF also cable free connected through the top pins etc...
2. a little more fps without hurting the investment of DSMC2 owners (4K 75p)...

I know it's all a gamble between price range of Komodo and functions you can get realistically for that price. What about a fix entry price for those DSMC owners who want to buy several Komodo's to be used in Multicam or just because they don't need extra functions. And than, for the indy filmmaker for instance who will most likely buy only one Komodo offering the possibility to access through payed licenses more functions (like 4K75p, Canon's DPAF, etc...)?

Komodo's spec is actually not defined by a price point. Our implementation of a global shutter is what is defining the FPS this first time and Komodo is not artificially "neutered" to avoid cannibalizing it's bigger brothers. We like disruption and sometimes that includes disrupting ourselves.

Price point did need to be low purely because we needed Komodo to be able to be blown up in use... and when it did get destroyed not cause financial tears. Zack Snyder blew up 2 custom Monstros on his film and even though it was planned expected, it was still a sad day and we had a little funeral and had a little cry. We blew 2 Komodos up last night separately on 2 different productions and everyone cheered.

The price point is much lower for Komodo because we are not inventing everything on the camera this time around like we always do and we are leveraging a global supply chain instead of just trying to make them all in Southern California.

 

[Darius Lyles]

Jarred will Komodo have IPP2 built in?

 

[Carlos Garcia-Diaz]

Jarred will Komodo have IPP2 built in?

Feature No. 1 for me: image IQ. Everything else, while nice, is secondary. Well, having a release date/price/actual features offered would also be nice, but nothing precedes IQ. And that is why I tend to stay ashy from some Sony cameras (great features/ergonomics but that plasticky/sony videos look, looking at you FS7/FS9). Not a fan (and I have an F3, which an anazing HD camera, beautiful footage out of that old workhouse). But I digress.

 

[Curren Sheldon]

Feature No. 1 for me: image IQ. Everything else, while nice, is secondary. Well, having a release date/price/actual features offered would also be nice, but nothing precedes IQ. And that is why I tend to stay ashy from some Sony cameras (great features/ergonomics but that plasticky/sony videos look, looking at you FS7/FS9). Not a fan (and I have an F3, which an anazing HD camera, beautiful footage out of that old workhouse). But I digress.

Exactly. Sony from 2014-2018 (not so much the last couple of years) packed all sorts of specs and features into their cameras at great price points but the image still sucked in comparison to anything Canon or Panasonic were putting out with inferior specs but similar price points. So, yes: IQ is #1.

With that said, Red has my favorite IQ I've ever used, so I'm not worried about that.

 

[Gregory Karydis]

Komodo's spec is actually not defined by a price point. Our implementation of a global shutter is what is defining the FPS this first time and Komodo is not artificially "neutered" to avoid cannibalizing it's bigger brothers. We like disruption and sometimes that includes disrupting ourselves.

Price point did need to be low purely because we needed Komodo to be able to be blown up in use... and when it did get destroyed not cause financial tears. Zack Snyder blew up 2 custom Monstros on his film and even though it was planned expected, it was still a sad day and we had a little funeral and had a little cry. We blew 2 Komodos up last night separately on 2 different productions and everyone cheered...

That brings up the next obvious question...
How secure is that CFast card (and the footage) in there?
And when you say "blown up", do you mean to pieces, or just in close proximity?

That opens up a world of possibilities for extremely risky takes!
Which is something I will try to avoid with my Stormtrooper, but the regular production baby dragons will be fair game!