KOMODO....

[Christoffer Glans]

It's a frikkin ultra-compact cinematography camera using CFast.
It doesn't have built in EVF also.

It isn't even out yet and there are already perceived problems.
Of reality not bowing down to imagination. Maybe it's 6x7 format. For $200. Oh no. It's crap.

Alexa Mini is larger, also doesn't have dual slots and no one is crying about it.
On high budget productions.





Because disks are cheaper. And you can put them in RAID arrays.

Disk backups are done regardles of the amount of available camera cards.

If you just buy a bunch of media for a new, more affordable cinema grade camera, you cry on forums why cards with giggawatts for 96K raw are not 12.99$ to shoot a bunch of 10 minute takes of people on the street walking in slowmo underexposed.




Still photographers don't shoot 100-300 MB/s motion imagery with terabytes per day.

Seriously, you need to chill out. What are you on about? I said I'm fine without dual slots, but I've worked on enough sets over the course of many years to know that backups and reliability is a headache every time. Dual card slots for CFast media which is way cheaper than Red's own proprietary media is a pretty good idea. I can live without it, but to dismiss its use as you do is just irrational. It's obvious how such a feature would help on set, especially sets or shoots which do not have easy DIT setups for backups, such as deep in a forest, street, car rigs or whatever, not to forget documentaries where material can be crucial long before any backup station. Saying a specific tech solution is a good idea is not "crying on forums", seriously what are you talking about?

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Seriously, you need to chill out.

Chilling already on a coffee right now, after working day on Sunday with 2 TB of material from two cameras, "only" S35, shot on 10 cards over a single card slot. With no auto focus.
Checking out the imagination>expectation>disappointment drama online.

Dual card slots for CFast media which is way cheaper than Red's own proprietary media is a pretty good idea.

It's a pretty good idea if you don't have "minimum camera size possible" priority and can imagine whatever you like.

Saying a specific tech solution is a good idea is not "crying on forums", seriously what are you talking about?

That was a figure of speech referring to general mentality, not you personally with this feature suggestion.

Of course it *would* be useful to have for *some* people. Have they considered the option that their own priorities do not necessarily match priorities of the product designers ?

 

[Remsy Atassi]

Dual cards at these data rates are basically impossible. It’s a fine feature but it’s only a hot swap on cinema cameras, most struggle to keep up with one recording path let alone two. I’m not really sure what vast set experience you’re drawing on there.

And I know it goes without saying but a Red camera won’t do anything to improve your life. The camera isn’t even announced yet. BMD or a mirrorless will do the job in the meantime, just make interesting pictures and don’t make excuses.

 

[David Rasberry]

One can always backup the onboard Cfast with an external recorder if it is that important to you.

 

[andrewhake]

"Not having something" camera remark in 2019 is a byproduct of consumeristic pathology, a mass psychosis of technological insatiability, spoiled by rapid developments in technology in the last decade and propagated further by wishful thinking blogobabble. When folks with excessive imagination and zero professional experience gained some basic gear conception online and spoiled by continuous advancements by others let the unleashed imagination and sense of entitlement copulate, proudly announcing its offspring to the world, perceived as achievement.

Well said.

 

[Christophe Deshoux]

Do we have a release / availability date for Komodo?

 

[Christoffer Glans]

One can always backup the onboard Cfast with an external recorder if it is that important to you.

Sure, but the idea was that if you do run n gun stuff out in some desolate location, with a small setup and packing light equipment without any computer or DIT setup at all. Having instant backups on flashcards and not regular HDD drives will give you a good backup option. Any extra equipment means less freedom for some types of shoots.

But, I also don't think that an external recorder can record how the internal records. So no R3D's on the CFast of an external recorder. I'm talking about instant backups to the second card internally. Just like in still photography, it's a mirrored card. I don't think it's gonna cap performance if the transfer is direct to the two cards at once. Key thing is that I've met enough still photographers who's never going back to single card operation. I don't mind there just being one slot on the komodo, but no one can deny the practicality of having dual slots. I'm not sure many realize how instantly much safer the operation becomes with it. Not all productions will feature a crew and a DIT and not all productions can strap gear on top of gear on the camera. Just the fact that plenty of people hold their breath when shooting with their Red until the first backup is made shows how unnecessary the stress is if we had the option of an instant backup safety net.

 

[Julian Ogans]

Do we have a release / availability date for Komodo?

Unfortunately, no we do not.

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

While we all do have high expectations...I think maybe it's time we get them back in check. Personally I think it's going to deliver on image quality. There is no doubt about that. RED know how to make beautiful images. My worries are that it may not deliver on current advanced tech (AF, IBIS etc...) and I still have doubt on the frame rates at 6K. But only time will tell. (hopefully sooner than later).
I am also puzzled on why they are still trying to integrate it with Hydrogen?...I mean no offense but that device is terrible.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I am also puzzled on why they are still trying to integrate it with Hydrogen?...I mean no offense but that device is terrible.

Agree, but if it can be used as a touch-monitor, its gonna redeem its price as a monitor instead. If it can be used as a wireless monitor even better. Mine is just a paper-weight since it's no way near what can be done with an iPhone 11 pro.

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

I am also puzzled on why they are still trying to integrate it with Hydrogen?...I mean no offense but that device is terrible.

This is probably pretty far fetched, but I f they have many thousands of unsold hydrogen phones lying around in boxes, then perhaps it makes financial sense to build a brand new camera system (Komodo) that will utilize a Hydrogen as control panel/monitor/streaming connection/proxy recorder, as they’ll may be able to sell those phones for $1000+ per unit instead of paying for recycling them... this could potentially be worth millions of dollars and thus be the reason for Komodo to come alive... this scenario would make me like my TI Hydrogen and the whole Hydrogen project a lot more, as I’m pretty sure I’ll love the Komodo

 

[Daniel Kelly Brown]

My two cents on this new amazing looking camera-

For me the main benefit to this camera will be for gimbal/drone use. Therefore its my feeling that every aspect of its design should be beneficial for mounting to gimbals. This means the following, it needs a control port to hook up rt motion latitude type focus zoom systems. It also needs the ability to wire the monitor/hydrogen atop the gimbal.

So in conclusion please put a control port on this thing! Also while your at it can you ensure that control of focus though canon autofocus motors works equally as well as it does on dsmc2 cameras?

Better yet build your own Red version of the rt motion latitude control system complete with zoom rocker and focus thumbwheel/Record button! And in a dream world make the zoomrocker and thumbwheel wireless.

Danny.

 

[Craig Lees]

Interesting thread.

I'm sure Komodo will be a great little camera.
It would be really interesting too if it were possible to bolt two or four Komodo's together with genlock sync over the ext. Port and multiplexed stereo / 4view monitoring onto hydrogen would be rad. I'm sure red could build some pretty good stereo & 4 array housings for them in these configs too, even making 180 & 270 degree lens solutions for the arrays!

Though I guess there will be some extra processing going on somewhere if the phone can't handle it?

I really like Asphalt8 on hydrogen, I play it a lot : ), I love the flying cars and drifting with depth. I also like the depth camera for photos when keeping still, get some really interesting images.

As a phone goes, it's actually ok, especially when it's the only one you've got and the battery lasts for ages on a single charge : )

When I show people it in the UK they're first words are often, "wow you've got a red phone, I didn't know that was even a thing"!

I think it would be interesting too to see a bigger Leia / Red 4v screen.

Interesting times!

Craig Lees
UK

 

[David Rasberry]

Raven does 120fps @ 4.5k in a $6k body. Why would Komodo do less? HFR at high resolution is a signature Red feature and would make Komodo very competitive indeed in that price class.
60p (59.94) scaled 4k SDI output will be essential for optimum broadcast compatibility in North America I think. It is quite common on streaming services too. I really think this is, or should be, the target maximum frame for 6k at least.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Raven does 120fps @ 4.5k in a $6k body. Why would Komodo do less? HFR at high resolution is a signature Red feature and would make Komodo very competitive indeed in that price class.
60p (59.94) scaled 4k SDI output will be essential for optimum broadcast compatibility in North America I think. It is quite common on streaming services too. I really think this is, or should be, the target maximum frame for 6k at least.

To your question, a plausible answer could be that the sensor in Raven was smaller (than s35 and we expect Komodo to be s35 or slightly larger) which made it "easier to cool" and it was a lower resolution (than 6k) so less processing power needed.

I DID say "plausible answer" because in fairness I kinda agree with you. If it doesn't go to 60fps @6K, it won't be a deal breaker FOR ME but it SHOULD be able to do that as a tool.

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

I imagine concert or sports broadcasted live in 4k 35mm with very small camera.
60p is a must, and considering Raven and Scarlet-W do it already, and they're starting to get old... I think it's pretty easy to have them shrinked and (passively) silently cooled to have the same specs.

 

[Phil Holland]

Likely possibilities for Komodo's 6K Max FPS are:
- 24fps
- 25fps
- 30fps
- 48fps
- 50fps
- 60fps
- ??fps

DSMC2 tops out at a little over 80fps at 6K FF. Komodo is obviously a less power hungry system as well as a new sensor design. Don't know if there's enough juice in the tank to get way up there for higher fps.

So much of this is dependent on the entire camera specs. For instance if the format size works well and say 5K gets you near S35 and you get 60 or so FPS, that might be gravy for some people. What if 4K is that realm? No matter what it's going to be compared against anything near this price point on the max fps side of things, but we'll have to wait and see what the "full package of features" are before anything can really be digested.

I'm way, way, way on board for pogo pin potential cableless display options. Komodo is looking like a camera that can do a lot in a tiny package and might be the quickest RED camera to pull out and grab a shot. I totally get Jarred's POV about it not being ideal for A-Cam, DSMC2 and Ranger are certainly more production friendly. But you'll be able to certainly shoot A-Cam with this if that's what you are looking to do. Different dresses for different dances.

 

[David Rasberry]

Lower voltage and thermal envelope doesn't necessarily mean less processing power compared to older gen fabrication technologies. The newest gen 10NM fab intel i7 10xx mobile chips pull only 9-13 watts for faster processing than my two year old i7 6700K class quad core which pulls 65-90 watts.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Likely possibilities for Komodo's 6K Max FPS are:
- 24fps
- 25fps
- 30fps
- 48fps
- 50fps
- 60fps
- ??fps

I think that the minimum needed for 6K is 50fps. 40fps would be ok I guess, but 50 fps is very much needed for plenty of shoots, not to mention HFR work at 48fps, which I personally I don't like, but is a thing that some people want.
Fps is also defined by the sensor readout, which is why the Pocket is 50 fps maximum at 6K. They might have been able to go higher, but the readout is a limit. So if Komodo has the same readout, it not only means limited fps, but also a hefty rolling shutter.

I totally get Jarred's POV about it not being ideal for A-Cam, DSMC2 and Ranger are certainly more production-friendly. But you'll be able to certainly shoot A-Cam with this if that's what you are looking to do. Different dresses for different dances.

I'm just hoping that Komodo isn't capped by the reason of risking the rest of Red's lineup due to it actually working as a replacement. I much rather hope they do a fully-capable camera that is limited in certain features we see on the Ranger and DSMC2 camera bodies than limited and capped in its recording capabilities and image quality. If the camera can do 6K, 50fps at some reasonable 5:1 compression with at least 14 stops of DR, that would be more than enough to be an A-cam for really high-end stuff, but not have the fully-fledged capabilities of a Ranger body.

Many shoots might want to have a smaller body for constant gimbal work or non-traditional camera work. Or they want to move fast, with lighter and smaller camera bodies, as Soderbergh seems to want it. The camera should be capable, but being capable of different things based on the camera bodies rather than a capped image experience.

 

[Russ Fill]

I do a tone of work at 4K 120fps. On and off a Gimbal, Im really wishing that the Komodo will at least be able to pull this off at a reasonable compression rate. Not sure how that will be possible in a R3D with a C Fast card thought.