KOMODO....

[Bastien Tribalat]

No question Komodo can be an “A Camera”. Same way a 5D MKII and a DVX-100 can still be an “A Camera”...if so desired.

The GH2 was a pretty sweet little “A Camera” for a lot of people as well.

With that said, Crossing fingers for a full-frame 4K 120fps Komodo.

Well.... We already know it's not full frame. It's s35 or maybe slitghly larger like Gemini is (the lense used by Steven Soderbergh leads me to believe it's closer to the size of the Gemini sensor as this specific line of lenses is made for slightly larger than s35 but not "Full Frame"... Anyways we'l see).

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

If I remember correctly, it was said that the original sensor developed for the Hydrogen cine module was 5K+ and supposed to be on par with Raven/Scarlet, and only rivaled by its bigger siblings Epic/Gemini/Monstro etc.
This sensor has undoubtedly developed even further and is probably what’s in the Komodo. This has me wondering why Komodo is not regarded as A-Cam material.. Something as good or better than Scarlet W should definitely be good enough for most productions - except maybe the really higher end stuff

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

If I remember correctly, it was said that the original sensor developed for the Hydrogen cine module was 5K+ and supposed to be on par with Raven/Scarlet, and only rivaled by its bigger siblings Epic/Gemini/Monstro etc.
This sensor has undoubtedly developed even further and is probably what’s in the Komodo. This has me wondering why Komodo is not regarded as A-Cam material.. Something as good or better than Scarlet W should definitely be good enough for most productions - except maybe the really higher end stuff

TO ME, the whole "it's not an A-Cam" thing is hinting at drone/gimbal work. Like others have said on this very forum, Arri had the same marketing messages about the Alexa Mini when they released it. It didn't stop anyone from using it as an A-Cam and now the Alex LF marketing campain kinda dropped the gimbal/drone message for a more "compact versatile tool". At least to me.

 

[Aaron Lochert]

TO ME, the whole "it's not an A-Cam" thing is hinting at drone/gimbal work. Like others have said on this very forum, Arri had the same marketing messages about the Alexa Mini when they released it. It didn't stop anyone from using it as an A-Cam and now the Alex LF marketing campain kinda dropped the gimbal/drone message for a more "compact versatile tool". At least to me.

+1.

The language about A-Cam comes from the Hollywood style of doing things. That workflow is typically better suited with those kinds of camera bodies, e.g. Ranger, Alexa, DXL2, etc. I'm confident the image quality will be plenty good enough for "A-Cam" pictures; we've been in this territory for years. But Komodo is not a Ranger, I think that's all RED is saying.

 

[David Rasberry]

If we look at Komodo in the context of Ranger, are we seeing a general move away from the modular DSMC concept to more self contained and potentially more economical to produce camera systems?
How does the price of a Ranger compare with a comparable DSMC brain fitted out with modules to match the functionality?
Komodo is reducing system costs with open market media support, economical battery solution, and the minimum necessary interfaces to support common third party options.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

If we look at Komodo in the context of Ranger, are we seeing a general move away from the modular DSMC concept to more self contained and potentially more economical to produce camera systems?
How does the price of a Ranger compare with a comparable DSMC brain fitted out with modules to match the functionality?
Komodo is reducing system costs with open market media support, economical battery solution, and the minimum necessary interfaces to support common third party options.

A RANGER is slightly cheaper than buying the corresponding brain and modules separatly. RANGER GEMINI for example costs $24,950 and DSMC2 GEMINI brain + Production Kit cost around $26,000.

I was asking kinda the same question you do a while back in this thread because I have the same feeling and the general consensus seems to be that no, they are not moving away from the DSMC concept. So my guess is they will be slowly phasing out a big part of the DSMC2 line to make room for an upcoming DSMC3. But then again, DSMC2, especially MONSTRO and GEMINI, are very popular products and it's hard to imagine RED moving away from the modular camera philosophy.

The thing is the sort of "target audience". I'm sure we can all agree/understand that the advantage of the modular systems is that it can be smaller and cheaper to buy since you can build the cameras up for your actual needs. For example, if you're a one man shooter of commercials but want to use a RED, you may not need a module with SDI outs and stuff.
BUT the downside is that when you start to add modules and accessories to make the cameras usable in some sort of traditional cinema shooting envirronement it starts to look like a big mess (or, as some of us french like to say : it's making the cameras look life bazookas) of cables and stuff so then a RANGER body seems more logical.
Another point : as Jarred hinted somewhere in this thread, the Canon RF mount (or any mirrorless camera mount in that case) has the huge advantage to be adaptable to almost everything (especially PL) while not having to play (and mess ? ) the flange distance while changing mounts. Will DSMC3 also come standard with the Canon RF Mount ?

In conclusion : I have no clue at all :smiley:

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Has there been any indication that Komodo will have a control port?

The Small HD Cine 7 with just introduced RED Camera Control is being marketed as compatible with DSMC2.
Could be a valuable part of a Komodo kit.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Has there been any indication that Komodo will have a control port?

The Small HD Cine 7 with just introduced RED Camera Control is being marketed as compatible with DSMC2.
Could be a valuable part of a Komodo kit.

As of right now, here the only ports that we know of :
- SDI Out
- Lemo Power Connector
- Headphone Jack
- 3.5mm Mic Input
- EXT Port...

So maybe the EXT port would be the droid you're looking for ?

 

[David Rasberry]

A RANGER is slightly cheaper than buying the corresponding brain and modules separatly. RANGER GEMINI for example costs $24,950 and DSMC2 GEMINI brain + Production Kit cost around $26,000.

I was asking kinda the same question you do a while back in this thread because I have the same feeling and the general consensus seems to be that no, they are not moving away from the DSMC concept. So my guess is they will be slowly phasing out a big part of the DSMC2 line to make room for an upcoming DSMC3. But then again, DSMC2, especially MONSTRO and GEMINI, are very popular products and it's hard to imagine RED moving away from the modular camera philosophy.

The thing is the sort of "target audience". I'm sure we can all agree/understand that the advantage of the modular systems is that it can be smaller and cheaper to buy since you can build the cameras up for your actual needs. For example, if you're a one man shooter of commercials but want to use a RED, you may not need a module with SDI outs and stuff.
BUT the downside is that when you start to add modules and accessories to make the cameras usable in some sort of traditional cinema shooting envirronement it starts to look like a big mess (or, as some of us french like to say : it's making the cameras look life bazookas) of cables and stuff so then a RANGER body seems more logical.
Another point : as Jarred hinted somewhere in this thread, the Canon RF mount (or any mirrorless camera mount in that case) has the huge advantage to be adaptable to almost everything (especially PL) while not having to play (and mess ? ) the flange distance while changing mounts. Will DSMC3 also come standard with the Canon RF Mount ?

In conclusion : I have no clue at all :smiley:

Not suggesting that Red has any intentions of abandoning DSMC modular systems. Seems like they are expanding options to explore new market potentials that DSMC is overkill for. Speaking strictly about how cameras are rigged and accessorized, not about IQ or performance.

 

[Uday Bhaskar Karra]

Does it have a Single card or Dual card slots?
If it doesn’t have two slots... i can imagine, how Komodo reviews are going to be on youtube.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Does it have a Single card or Dual card slots?
If it doesn’t have two slots... i can imagine, how Komodo reviews are going to be on youtube.

I totally know what you mean and in a way I kinda agree with those reviews... But to my knowledge, Alexas also have the one slot and I don't see them reviewers whining about it

 

[Uday Bhaskar Karra]

I totally know what you mean and in a way I kinda agree with those reviews... But to my knowledge, Alexas also have the one slot and I don't see them reviewers whining about it

There is so much negative propaganda going on about RED on internet... i don’t know if someone started a #HateRED campaign or something like that...

Not having a secondary slot will add extra fuel to that campaign. Also the pricing of Komodo would put that into high end Mirrorless segment and there would be direct comparisons.

RED may have done their market research already and they may have plan to handle this...

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

There is so much negative propaganda going on about RED on internet... i don’t know if someone started a #HateRED campaign or something like that...

Not having a secondary slot will add extra fuel to that campaign. Also the pricing of Komodo would put that into high end Mirrorless segment and there would be direct comparisons.

RED may have done their market research already and they may have plan to handle this...

Well, when you shoot on analog film you don't have to rolls of film at the same time and everyone's OK with that right ? :lol:

 

[David Rasberry]

There is so much negative propaganda going on about RED on internet... i don’t know if someone started a #HateRED campaign or something like that...

Not having a secondary slot will add extra fuel to that campaign. Also the pricing of Komodo would put that into high end Mirrorless segment and there would be direct comparisons.

RED may have done their market research already and they may have plan to handle this...

The major difference between Komodo and mirrorless still/video hybrid cameras, BM aside, will be in camera raw recording vs high compression video codecs.

 

[Zack Birlew]

I've said it before, the price is the only issue for me at the moment. I've been eyeing a Hydrogen One just to see what is offered for Hydrogen owners but knowing that it will still probably be a (only guessing) $5,000 investment after discount is a sizable boulder in the way of that idea. Sure, it'll be 6K and a compact DSMC-style camera but what does it do to differentiate itself from the competition? That's the question and, secondly, how does Hydrogen fit into it? Is H4V functionality involved? That could be an interesting prospect in and of itself if people weren't sold on the phone camera limited H4V format. I do like that more inputs are included without having to purchase a module to plug something in but, having said that, I do like the idea of the Pro I/O module for more advanced plugs and features but 4K HDMI output has to be minimum going forward, even just for the sake of zooming in on the LCD for focus as you can only zoom in so far on a 1080P signal and it's a nightmare for wide angle shots. On that point, having used my RED One MX extensively along with our new Blackmagic Pocket 4K, I was sorely missing the 10x focus zoom of my Canon 5D Mark II and the (I think 7x?) focus zoom on my Sony A7S when both the RED One and Pocket 4K only had 2x zoom. If it's not too late, I hope RED can start adding more built in focus zoom options as third-party external LCD's don't often have the best focus zoom features themselves.

 

[joshua csehak]

The major difference between Komodo and mirrorless still/video hybrid cameras, BM aside, will be in camera raw recording vs high compression video codecs.

I think the major difference will be the color science. Raw is wonderful and all, and definitely a HUGE feather in Red's cap, but Red looks so good in-camera that I know half the time my clients are just using the ProRes proxies. The S1H is the first camera I've seen that approaches it, though just from looking at sample footage (haven't been able to do my own testing yet), I'm not sure it's quite there – I think Panasonic might've made some concessions to get the Varicam in that small box. I'm optimistic that Red won't have to make the same concessions, and if I can get the same wonderful skin tones and overall fantastic color as my big rig but at $5,999/$4,999 for hydrogen owners (can't see how the price could possibly be anything else), it'll absolutely kill.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Not having a secondary slot will add extra fuel to that campaign.

"Not having something" camera remark in 2019 is a byproduct of consumeristic pathology, a mass psychosis of technological insatiability, spoiled by rapid developments in technology in the last decade and propagated further by wishful thinking blogobabble. When folks with excessive imagination and zero professional experience gained some basic gear conception online and spoiled by continuous advancements by others let the unleashed imagination and sense of entitlement copulate, proudly announcing its offspring to the world, perceived as achievement.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

"Not having something" camera remark in 2019 is a byproduct of consumeristic pathology, a mass psychosis of technological insatiability, spoiled by rapid developments in technology in the last decade and propagated further by wishful thinking blogobabble. When folks with excessive imagination and zero professional experience gained some basic gear conception online and spoiled by continuous advancements by others let the unleashed imagination and sense of entitlement copulate, proudly announcing its offspring to the world, perceived as achievement.

Yet, dual slots have tremendous impact on the safety of the material. You don't need to back up the material and you don't need to be worried that you lost material to camera failure or media failure. Why would you need to do on-set HDD backups if you just buy a bunch of media and just keep shooting? It's a powerful feature, especially for single shooters.

I don't think it's vital, I much rather prefer a focus on image quality up to 50 fps. But dual-slots is a very powerful feature that a lot of professional still photographers both want and love.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Yet, dual slots have tremendous impact on the safety of the material. You don't need to back up the material and you don't need to be worried that you lost material to camera failure or media failure.

It's a frikkin ultra-compact cinematography camera using CFast.
It doesn't have built in EVF also.

It isn't even out yet and there are already perceived problems.
Of reality not bowing down to imagination. Maybe it's 6x7 format. For $200. With PDAF. Oh no. It's crap.

Alexa Mini is larger, costs about ten times as much, also doesn't have dual slots and no one is crying about it.
On high budget productions.


I'm going to coin a new term and abbreviation here:

CED

Consumer Expectation Disorder



As everything gets better, something is always missed regardless and dissatisfaction remains.

Why would you need to do on-set HDD backups if you just buy a bunch of media and just keep shooting?

Because disks are cheaper. And you can put them in RAID arrays.

Disk backups are done regardles of the amount of available camera cards.

If you just buy a bunch of media for a new, more affordable cinema grade camera you suddenly have acccess to, you tend to cry on forums why cards with giggawatts for 96K raw are not 12.99$ to shoot a bunch of 10 minute takes of random people on the street walking in slowmo underexposed.

Generalization and a figure of speech - but the point is clear.

But dual-slots is a very powerful feature that a lot of professional still photographers both want and love.

Still photographers don't shoot 100-300 MB/s motion imagery with terabytes per day.

 

[Nick Gardner]

^^^^^ That guy has a point.