KOMODO....

[andrewhake]

I think in some ways the move from here for RED is three fold, at least this is sort of what I'd like to see happen:
1. Ranger Style - All in Oner Production Camera.
2. DSMC3 - Modular Cameras you can build out the way you feel necessary.
3. Compact Cinema - Komodo/Cube Style. Tiny camera capable of high image quality.

Yes pls! If I could add something to that list it would be an even more compact cameras, somewhere in between a GoPro and a Komodo that is capable shooting a really solid 4k R3D image in the smallest and simplest form factor possible. I love shooting things in nice controlled environments, but I also love placing a camera somewhere and waiting to see what happens. There have been a few interesting developments in in this area with all the mirrorless cameras and actions cams, but they seem to be forever stuck in the H264/HEVC capture world. Lots of iterations of the same idea and form factor. I would love to see some new ideas in this area. I couldn't care less about software image stabilization.

I love the notion that a camera needs to be large and complicated to capture a good image or provide a good workflow is slowly dying. In any industry involving interesting and developing technology, it is very easy for people to want to get involved to be technicians instead of artists, when in reality it has always required you to be both. It's easy for people to become more interested in the technology and discussion of it rather than what it enables.

 

[Curren Sheldon]

Depends on what those few things are.
Framerate/resolution wise, if it's like the S1H from Panasonic (but with true 6K24p thank you, and true 4K anamorphic thank you again ) but with Redcode RAW I'll be OK with that. It wouldn't be as "wow" as I hope but a great tool nonetheless.

Exactly my thought as well. There are definitely some things that may be seen as disappointments, but would still make the camera very attractive. As long as it has RedCode and at least 96-100fps in 4K (with no more than a Super35 crop), I'll be very happy. 6K is fine, but I would much rather have a very capable 4K camera for the next 3-4 years, then anything more. Just shooting raw with a Red or C200 shows how much improvement there is still to be had in the 4k realm for most cameras and manufacturers - these cameras shine in 4K (for Red, 4K+ as well) and that's what most of us need for the foreseeable future, not a rush to thin H264/5 6k and 8k (where most other manufacturers will probably go).

Though, I'm guessing Komodo will be a Super35mm sensor at 6k, making the crop at 4K the biggest potential disappointment or dealbreaker for me.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

If it's an s35mm+ (like the Gemini in sensor size) at 6K with R3D and IPP2 and 50 fps in FF mode, it will kill the competition, even if the Z Cam is full-frame both in a 6K and 8K model.

And Red has both the resources and licenses to be able to deliver such a camera, far beyond the competition. I think the only ones in the way of doing it is Red themselves. It doesn't matter anymore what the others do even up to 8K if that is what the Komodo will be. If the competition can have their sensors and tech at their low prices, then why wouldn't Red be able to after all the R&D that has gone into Red up until now, makes no sense that Red would deliver something subpar the competition.

 

[David Rasberry]

I think for 10 bit 4:2:2 broadcast compatibility Komodo needs to hit 60 fps minimum at 4k, whether that is scaled from 6k in post or raw crop to 4k in redcode. Aesthetic tastes are shifting for younger audiences raised on HFR digital media in games and video production. They seem to prefer it over the classic film aesthetic.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

I think for 10 bit 4:2:2 broadcast compatibility Komodo needs to hit 60 fps minimum at 4k, whether that is scaled from 6k in post or raw crop to 4k in redcode. Aesthetic tastes are shifting for younger audiences raised on HFR digital media in games and video production. They seem to prefer it over the classic film aesthetic.

That's interesting... And frankly frightning at the same time since I really hate HFR... But I think work is work if this is what we have to do... As long as narrative work for cinema, streaming services and so on don't go there

 

[Rakesh Malik]

I don't know if that makes sense or if even is what the path is at this point, but based on what's available now I can see it going this way. I don't think RED would drop Modularity as a concept, they are pretty much the company who made it popular in digital cinema cameras and now several other companies are tapping into the form factor and strategy.

What if Komodo is intended to be the heart of a new modular camera range, with Ranger taking up the high end?

I don't have the budget for an immediate upgrade to Ranger, but I'm going to plan on going with a Komodo + Ranger combo down the road.

 

[jordan levy]

No Komodo news at IBC, Komodo still is deep in it's public and private testing phase

to me this is a relief, RED should watch and see what's released before just getting something out prematurely only for the competition to surpass it in one quarter.
hopefully they are taking CFexpress into new consideration too.
my other hope is if you shoot 4k, there is either no crop, or no crop under S35.

 

[Mestizo Devon]

to me this is a relief, RED should watch and see what's released before just getting something out prematurely only for the competition to surpass it in one quarter.
hopefully they are taking CFexpress into new consideration too.
my other hope is if you shoot 4k, there is either no crop, or no crop under S35.

Hydrogen.....DSMC2

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

FWIW, if RED really is delaying Komodo for competitive reasons, what could they do that might change the calculus for potential buyers?

1) 6K scaled to 4K in camera at 120fps
2) 4K crop at 180fps
3) Dual ISO
4) Ready to shoot kit for under $7,500

As others have suggested, RED has developed tech to handle HFR in compressed RAW within tight TDP limits. If they are able to leverage that strength in the <$10K market segment, it could be the value add needed to overcome the price delta. Dual ISO capability ala Gemini that makes good images in low light would bring in another cohort. Personally, I always want to characterize the low end with intent - but for a lot of folks, smart DSP in camera for dark scenes is a big plus.

Cheers - #19

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

FWIW, if RED really is delaying Komodo for competitive reasons, what could they do that might change the calculus for potential buyers?

1) 6K scaled to 4K in camera at 120fps
2) 4K crop at 180fps
3) Dual ISO
4) Ready to shoot kit for under $7,500

As others have suggested, RED has developed tech to handle HFR in compressed RAW within tight TDP limits. If they are able to leverage that strength in the <$10K market segment, it could be the value add needed to overcome the price delta. Dual ISO capability ala Gemini that makes good images in low light would bring in another cohort. Personally, I always want to characterize the low end with intent - but for a lot of folks, smart DSP in camera for dark scenes is a big plus.

Cheers - #19

I think you're too ambitious.
First, I don't think they are delaying Komodo, they just won't talk about it during the IBC period. It's in the wild, in the hands of a select few, testing it, putting it thru its paces and giving feedback.

Secondly, at that "low" of a price, if it had those specs, it would kill Gemini. Or there should be a huge tradeoff somewhere.

Please note that's just an opinion and if the specs you're talking about end up being the actual specs I would be over the moon as well. I just think that won't be that.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Too ambitious, probably - but why not aim high.

With the pace of advancement in this space so accelerated, can any company afford to "protect" legacy devices?

FWIW, the question we don't know the answer to is how many units RED wants to sell...

Cheers - #19

 

[jamesbridges]

I wish they would change the recording to CFast Express...

 

[Phil Holland]

I wish they would change the recording to CFast Express...

CFexpress is apparently coming and coming on strong this month. Just to be really, really specific. Those who want CFexpress are likely looking for CFexpress Type-B to be implemented:

Prior to right this second (i.e. September 2019) the high speed CFexpress didn't exist for pretty much anybody outside of Japan apparently. Sony has announced their highe speed cards a while back to ship this summer, that hasn't happened, but I believe their high speed cards are imminent and likely to be announced on the 13th as well as their new cameras. Sandisk announced for IBC 2019, as well as Angelbird yesterday. ProGrade also will be making them.

Nobody is making Type-C yet. I'm thinking Type-A is now pretty much dead.

Though all rumor at this point, there's talk of re-purposing the CFast 2.0 form factor and advancing it to CFexpress or something else, but nothing hard yet. Some of the chaos here involves Sony's XQD and CFexpress Type-B being the same form factor and a host of issues of getting the media up to this speed and working reliably. That apparently has happened by now.

The absolute biggest surprise to me was Canon moving over to CFexpress with the 500 MK II.

As always with media at this level, what is being published on the sticker is the burst read and write speed. Motion picture people are mainly looking for the sustained read and write speeds which effects what the cameras can do as well as your offload times.

Angelbird is stating their media will be around 1GB/s sustained on their AV PRO CFX XT cards which top out at 640GB for the announced models and for the AV PRO CFX models 550 MB/s+ for up to 1TB.

To truly tap into this you'll be looking at USB 3.1 Gen 2, TB3, or USB 4 readers and have the appropriate drive speed to download to.

 

[Mike P.]

So much for being a unicorn. Tough spot; I doubt Komodo will switch to CFE, as that would likely delay it, giving all the other competing 6k raw cameras even more lead-time.

Conversely, Zcam and BMD likely don't give a crap, so I doubt RED does either... In other words, all 2019 sub~$5000 6k raw cameras will all be CFast.

 

[Savannah Miller]

Damn you're right : I see no visible cooling on this thing ! How do they do that ?!

Outside of cine cams, a lot of cameras don't seem to have visible cooling. If anything, a lot of camera companies in many ways are far more advanced than RED and Blackmagic at building cameras. It's mainly the limitations of what cameras are not willing to include (compressed raw, prores, timecode, pro features, etc.) that makes certain cameras less desirable. In many ways though, they are much further ahead.

I have my doubts that the Komodo will be able to do anything over 60fps in full frame, and I would love to see how this more "budget" sensor performs. Given all the cameras using the IMX 410 sensor and Sony semiconductor's recent releases, the gap between RED and other brands is starting to shrink to where the strengths of some of the budget cameras even showcase things that RED could improve.

Blackmagic is in a good place because they own Resolve and can choose not to support the new codecs that the competitor cine cams use, but I could see Blackmagic cams being replaced by competitors too.

 

[Phil Holland]

a lot of camera companies in many ways are far more advanced than RED and Blackmagic at building cameras

Yes and no. When it comes to particular sensors, it's all about what you are attempting to do with them or get out of them, then it's the unique methods you tap into them.

A lack of cooling isn't necessarily a sign of advancement, but more is more often a sign of compromise. Particularly when it comes to longer filming days or filming in hot temperatures. Will the camera remain powered on? Does the image quality differ at higher temperatures?

Even BMD has put a fair amount of cooling in the PCC6K because they understand how people are using the camera and also have learned a bit from past issues. As is the general path of every manufacturer.

In the case of Z Cam, beware of the Flashing Red light that's faster than 1/2 a second. As always it's very useful to test cameras out under rigorous conditions.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Seems we can now control DSMC2 cameras via the Cine7 monitor from SmallHD (source : https://www.provideocoalition.com/smallhd-launches-camera-control-for-red-dsmc2-on-cine-7-monitors/). Maybe an indication on how we will interact with the settings on Komodo as well ?

 

[Björn Benckert]

Hmm, interesting article:

https://nofilmschool.com/digital-camera-market-sales-low

A 50% fall from one year to the other for cameras and 60% for lenses. Any industry hit by such drastic numbers are in for a big change no doubt. Really nuts if you think of it, the foto/camera industry is rather old, lot of large companies built over long time that has huge momentum but has difficulty to turn quickly. It will be interesting to see who can adapt if / when this trend continues. Its a steelbath for quite a few no doubt.

My guess, prices for decent cineglass will likly fall drastically and the amount of new affordable/capable small “cine cameras” coming to market will likly be nuts.

Im sure Jarred and team is very aware. If it was difficult to create something groundbreaking back in the redone days its for sure not easier today.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I think you're too ambitious.

I don't think he is because it's the rational response to the competing specs.

So much for being a unicorn. Tough spot; I doubt Komodo will switch to CFE, as that would likely delay it, giving all the other competing 6k raw cameras even more lead-time.

Doesn't matter if it's delayed. If it ends up being the best of the mid-tier cameras it's gonna win over the competition due to both being better and having the Red brand. But competing with Z Cam and Blackmagic is tough, it can't be a half-assed attempt at a Z Cam clone, but that's not what I expect from Red.

Outside of cine cams, a lot of cameras don't seem to have visible cooling. If anything, a lot of camera companies in many ways are far more advanced than RED and Blackmagic at building cameras. It's mainly the limitations of what cameras are not willing to include (compressed raw, prores, timecode, pro features, etc.) that makes certain cameras less desirable. In many ways though, they are much further ahead.

Both the Pocket 6K and the S1H have cooling. But it's much more low-key than what the Komodo seems to do.

Yes and no. When it comes to particular sensors, it's all about what you are attempting to do with them or get out of them, then it's the unique methods you tap into them.

A lack of cooling isn't necessarily a sign of advancement, but more is more often a sign of compromise.

A lack of cooling means a good overall design, but what's even better is robust cooling. The S1H uses the Panasonic military-grade cooling, used in their military laptops, making the camera be water and dust-resistant and still be able to cool the processor/sensor.
Red has always "played" with the military-style of camera gear, so it's a bit ironic that Panasonic actually does military-grade cooling.

 

[Alain M]

We wait for Komodo then make decisions for B CAM options light weight etc... I think RED will knock it and will release a great very usable product for us...