Interchangable OLPFs

[Gavin Greenwalt]

No, that is only really true of filters in front of the lens.

I feel like what Bob is referring to is subjective. If you have a face filling the screen the pores are 10 pixels tall so you need 10 pixels equivalent of diffusion. When they're in a wide shot 10 pixels of diffusion would smear their entire face and 1 pixel of diffusion would do the same thing. It doesn't matter where in the optical pipeline the filter is if your diffusion is a constant radius.

 

[Phil Holland]

I feel like what Bob is referring to is subjective. If you have a face filling the screen the pores are 10 pixels tall so you need 10 pixels equivalent of diffusion. When they're in a wide shot 10 pixels of diffusion would smear their entire face and 1 pixel of diffusion would do the same thing. It doesn't matter where in the optical pipeline the filter is if your diffusion is a constant radius.

This isn't exactly correct, specifically when talking diffusion. More or less due to magnification and beam angle draw. It's certainly possible to have diffusion on the OLPF. However, I'd recommend for the time being using in front of the lens diffusion. There simply are more aesthetic possibilities with the many varieties available. Not to mention rear of lens techniques such as netting.

I'd love to see something for sure, but it's going to be damn difficult to land on something "everybody" will love.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

By the way just performed the self-service OLPF. Jesus mother of God that's stressful without a clean room. I was able to deal with the single speck of dust on my sensor but I have some feedback for the OLPF itself: putting the OLPF in a generic cardboard box along with everything else without any sort of protection or enclosure is a BAD IDEA. My new OLPF was COVERED in dust. I thought I got it all but there is still one littttttttle tiny speck on my blemish check that didnt' show up with a flashlight. It would have been uneventful if my new modular OLPF wasn't filthy.

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

I feel like what Bob is referring to is subjective. If you have a face filling the screen the pores are 10 pixels tall so you need 10 pixels equivalent of diffusion. When they're in a wide shot 10 pixels of diffusion would smear their entire face and 1 pixel of diffusion would do the same thing. It doesn't matter where in the optical pipeline the filter is if your diffusion is a constant radius.

Yes, in that case true, but film had a mild consistent amount of hallation at all times (plus whatever you chose to add) that was pleasing. BTW for my taste Alexa has too much and I wish I could turn it off in some situations, but I can't.

 

[George A.]

Yes, in that case true, but film had a mild consistent amount of hallation at all times (plus whatever you chose to add) that was pleasing.

EXACTLY.

We NEED a Low Con + Slight Halation OLPF. That goes without saying. Something subtle to make the camera look more like 35mm film.

What Phil is saying can be achieved with filters in front of the lens, if somebody wants more diffusion or different effects.

Rob I'm 100% with you on this one. We need the OLPF to replicate that simple, constant, baked-in halation that 35mm film has. The rest it's up to you, if you want to build on that.
After all, people have been using diffusion and a variety of filters on 35mm as well.

I truly hope RED is still developing such an OLPF. Alexa looks great IMO, but we can have a 1/8 Low Con in there, instead of 1/4.
It can't be that complicated!




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[Meryem Ersoz]

I'd love to see something for sure, but it's going to be damn difficult to land on something "everybody" will love.

So true! But that's never been a stopper for RED in the past. I think they can find a pleasing baseline. I don't think anyone expects it to be the be-all, end-all.

They would sell a ton of these.

What I would not like to see is RED not taking this on, when there is a clear demand, because it might be perceived as some kind of concession to the Alexa look. I think that is where the real resistence seems to lie, if there is any (I'm not sure where RED stands on it), and that alone isn't a good reason. Many productions have to match these cameras, and it just makes the job easier, potentially.

The whole interchangeable OLPF system makes RED look nimble and flexible and Alexa look more baked-in, in my opinion. RED should capitalize on this fact, not avoid it, and this is a perfect opportunity.

I still wonder if there is an OLPF option which can squeeze even more lowlight goodness out of the sensor - one not based on the midpoint of the old sensor tech. But a pure night shoot sensor - how far into the blacks could such a thing reach?

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I'd love to see something for sure, but it's going to be damn difficult to land on something "everybody" will love.

So true! But that's never been a stopper for RED in the past.

Hell, RED usually releases something that nobody likes and then convinces us all it's what we want. "I know everybody *says* they want ProRes proxy recording...but you're all mistaken. You just want RAW." or "Check out this sweet Magenta orb effect we invented! Exclusively on Dragon." Haha.

 

[sam karr]

What would be the best filter to mimic the alexa? Ultracon 1? Low con 1/8? Other one?

 

[Phil Holland]

FYI, I do think Red is going to explore this Interchangeable OLPF system more for sure. We've been told about some things and we've seen a couple 3rd parties already developing some interesting solutions.

What would be the best filter to mimic the alexa? Ultracon 1? Low con 1/8? Other one?

Try out Evin Grant's recommendation of the Schneider 1/16 HD Classics Soft and give that a whirl. A Classic Soft 1/8 might dance the dance too.

I'm not exactly interested in matching the Alexa when it comes to Dragon in reality.

I will say it might be fun to take a look at Tiffen's newer Pearlescent filters. I will likely snag up a few to test out before the year is out as it's on my "to do" list.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

By the way just performed the self-service OLPF. Jesus mother of God that's stressful without a clean room. I was able to deal with the single speck of dust on my sensor but I have some feedback for the OLPF itself: putting the OLPF in a generic cardboard box along with everything else without any sort of protection or enclosure is a BAD IDEA. My new OLPF was COVERED in dust. I thought I got it all but there is still one littttttttle tiny speck on my blemish check that didnt' show up with a flashlight. It would have been uneventful if my new modular OLPF wasn't filthy.

Good point,

The best way of looking at sensor dust is to use a pinhole. I know they exist in Nikon and Canon but don't know about the PL.
Dust is really hard to takle.

I don't understand why red don't give the opportunity to dragon buyers to have it sent with the Olpf of their choice. I'll use mine with The LLO. Shooting native 320 is not an option for me.

Pat

 

[Donald MJ Anderson]

or "Check out this sweet Magenta orb effect we invented! Exclusively on Dragon." Haha.

So true.

There was also mention that the Red dot pattern problem was a creative "choice" by some enthusistic redusers.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

I'm not exactly interested in matching the Alexa when it comes to Dragon in reality.

I will say it might be fun to take a look at Tiffen's newer Pearlescent filters. I will likely snag up a few to test out before the year is out as it's on my "to do" list.

That's why you are resisting the suggestion - but the industry reality is that it needs to happen with a degree of frequency, where Alexa may be the primary camera, but production runs REDs on gimbals. Or on helis, or for multi-cam setups. I think it would serve the industry.

And I think it would be a very nice out-of-the-box look which would help take weight off the camera. Great for doc shooting or fast environments.

As others have pointed out, just a filter which is more of a match to the natural halation of 35mm film, if that sounds less prickly than the "A" word....

that said, I'm very much interested in these pearlescents. They look pretty. Looking forward to these tests.

 

[Dominik Muench]

By the way just performed the self-service OLPF. Jesus mother of God that's stressful without a clean room. I was able to deal with the single speck of dust on my sensor but I have some feedback for the OLPF itself: putting the OLPF in a generic cardboard box along with everything else without any sort of protection or enclosure is a BAD IDEA. My new OLPF was COVERED in dust. I thought I got it all but there is still one littttttttle tiny speck on my blemish check that didnt' show up with a flashlight. It would have been uneventful if my new modular OLPF wasn't filthy.

I have to agree with Gavin, I had to take out the new lowlight OLPF 3 times and do sensor cleans before I had a clean image in the end, because there was so much dust hiding in the new OLPF rubber seal creases, every time I cleaned it and re-installed it, it seemed fine, but as soon as I moved the camera around a little and did a spot test I found more spots on the sensor. The actual installation took me a while too because the old rubber seal did not come out clean but broke off in quite a few bits that had to be cut out individually. I had help from the guys at the local Panavision shop and even their experienced technician said that was one nerve wrecking experience. But we managed in the end. I dont think I would swap OLPF's easily though, certainly not on location. way too close to the sensor.
Dragon and Low light OLPF is the prefect combination for me though, love the image performance.

 

[Andy White]

Slight change of subject - but wondering if anyone can help with an odd question - emailed my Bombrep, but it's the weekend and I'm still awaiting a reply (as I'm in the UK).

Basically preparing to send my Epic in for the Dragon update and was wondering if I should lock the metal case? might be a silly question, but I'm presuming the keys are not unique and that it can be opened at Red?

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

DR of low light OLPF higher than skintone?

 

[James Falco]

Slight change of subject - but wondering if anyone can help with an odd question - emailed my Bombrep, but it's the weekend and I'm still awaiting a reply (as I'm in the UK).

Basically preparing to send my Epic in for the Dragon update and was wondering if I should lock the metal case? might be a silly question, but I'm presuming the keys are not unique and that it can be opened at Red?

I didn't lock mine. Just packed the case in a padded cardboard box.

As for locking, think about. If some one wants to break it open, you could do that with a screwdriver.
Its not a vault. But if RED does not have the key, they have to break it open.
Locking it does not present any advantage when you ship it in a box.
The lock is good, when you have it in storage and you want to make sure no one takes it out to fiddle around with it when you are not looking. ; )

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Slight change of subject - but wondering if anyone can help with an odd question - emailed my Bombrep, but it's the weekend and I'm still awaiting a reply (as I'm in the UK).

Basically preparing to send my Epic in for the Dragon update and was wondering if I should lock the metal case? might be a silly question, but I'm presuming the keys are not unique and that it can be opened at Red?

I don't know about locking but do a robber insurance of the camera as nor Red nor Fedex are liable if it's stolen on the way.

Pat

 

[Jon Shaw]

Sent mine last week and didn't bother locking it, lets face it if someone steals it it aint hard to open but could be a PIA for the RED guys

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Sent mine last week and didn't bother locking it, lets face it if someone steals it it aint hard to open but could be a PIA for the RED guys

In case of theft, It would be your loss! RED is not responsible nor Fedex if stolen. It's your insurance that has to take the theft. Or are you located in Europe? As RED Europe has another policy.

Pat

 

[Andy White]

In case of theft, It would be your loss! RED is not responsible nor Fedex if stolen. It's your insurance that has to take the theft. Or are you located in Europe? As RED Europe has another policy.

Pat

What's RED Europe's policy difference in terms of theft etc?

I've had to keep hold of mine as I have a stills job that's got to be done before Xmas... so mine will be traveling to Pinewood in the New Year.