HYDROGEN preorders...

[Jerry Kundrotas]

One other extremely late night thought/early morning thought.


I'm still pushing for anodized titanium or black titanium (since we truly don't know yet), or an interesting finish of some sort. Titanium is a fascinating metal and RED could really make a bold design statement there that would truly come off as "premium" and there is a spectrum anodizing can cover. You can even do some interesting orange/blue or some controlled gradients surrounding a rainbow-ish pattern for example. With the right technique you can get a deep copper-ish rusty red color that's also pretty damn nice, deep but with a sheen about it. Sort of a candy red is possible there too. Even an "old spaceship black" is doable. Perhaps a controlled dark and light pattern. I know Jim, Jarred, and Matt love materials and exploring what can be done with them. I wouldn't mind a forged carbon fiber option, but I don't know how well that particular material would be on a mobile device that will be dropped likely 4-12 times in it's lifespan. It would be interesting to know if the kevlar back will approximately match the color scheme or not, but I could see like a two tone black kevlar w/ titanium colored to some extent working as it would mirror the screen's black void qualities on the rear. I personally just don't want it to be a shiny silver-ish metal as that will distract from the screen a bit.

I'm glad I Pre-ordered TI, and are of the few that will enjoy the extra "heft' that comes with that......... But, an all real Carbon fiber would be the ultimate in bad ass....... Maybe add some stainless trim accents.

Can't wait to get this in my hands, not going to help the tech addiction though

 

[John Chambers]

Being a smartphone (as well as a media machine!) it needs to deal with GSM, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and GPS RF, so the materials it's made from and where/how they are used will have a bearing on performance of those features.

Carbon fibre blocks radio signals but doesn't reflect them, a fully metal case would act like a Faraday cage, Kevlar - I'm not even sure about it's properties WRT RF....

You get the picture. There will be some design constraints because it's an RF-based device, but I'm sure they'll come up with a good balance between design and performance.

Bottom line for me is I'll always prefer performance over design. That's why I've never had an iPhone :wink5:

 

[Tony Vittimberga]

Being a smartphone (as well as a media machine!) it needs to deal with GSM, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and GPS RF, so the materials it's made from and where/how they are used will have a bearing on performance of those features.

Carbon fibre blocks radio signals but doesn't reflect them, a fully metal case would act like a Faraday cage, Kevlar - I'm not even sure about it's properties WRT RF....

You get the picture. There will be some design constraints because it's an RF-based device, but I'm sure they'll come up with a good balance between design and performance.

Bottom line for me is I'll always prefer performance over design. That's why I've never had an iPhone :wink5:

Nice post. There are serious functional design considerations in the material selection for any smartphone. Kevlar does not block RF, which is likely why it was selected for those back panels. The antennas will certainly be in those areas (which makes you wonder how performance will be affected when a battery or camera module is attached...)

Being a smartphone (as well as a media machine!) it needs to deal with GSM, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and GPS RF…

Add CDMA to that list, if the phone is to be Project Fi certified, as Jim has suggested.

 

[H Dewey]

Love where your head's at on this! There are some awesome things you can do with titanium.

Here's a stupid question that I feel is worth asking... WHY DOES RED DO PRE-ORDERS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Rather than just go... Here you go... they're ready!

Curious as RED has capital where pre-orders are not necessity.

I LIKE the pre-order idea but curious as to the specific rationale beyond tradition and 'RED-culture".

I suspect pre-orders are for the purpose of guaging interest.

Plus, once committed, if time isn't too stretched out, buyers are more apt to not opt out. For any already familiar with the RED ecosystem, day one purchases were no-brainers and helped create buzz. If they just showed with a new phone, albeit a fantastic one, there would have been no build-up and would have maybe flopped.

There's a lot of good stuff out there that we may have never heard of.

 

[Alok_Somani]

I'm glad I Pre-ordered TI, and are of the few that will enjoy the extra "heft' that comes with that......... But, an all real Carbon fiber would be the ultimate in bad ass....... Maybe add some stainless trim accents.

Can't wait to get this in my hands, not going to help the tech addiction though

From what I understand about the traditional setting of Carbon Fiber, it is lightweight and highly rigid, but cannot sustain significant impact. I'd be afraid of a Carbon Fiber phone chipping or shattering if it hit the floor. Carbon Fiber, I believe, is supposed to be extremely strong along the length of its weave, because the fibers have high tensile strength. However, if it takes impact or stress at a specific point, and not torsion or stress along its length, it doesn't do well in that situation.

Maybe they could work on different weave patterns and figure out how to set it differently to make it impact resistant for a phone, but otherwise, Titanium is as bad ass as it gets for these devices.

<-- Disclosure: Not a materials expert.

 

[Jerry Kundrotas]

From what I understand about the traditional setting of Carbon Fiber, it is lightweight and highly rigid, but cannot sustain significant impact. I'd be afraid of a Carbon Fiber phone chipping or shattering if it hit the floor. Carbon Fiber, I believe, is supposed to be extremely strong along the length of its weave, because the fibers have high tensile strength. However, if it takes impact or stress at a specific point, and not torsion or stress along its length, it doesn't do well in that situation.

Maybe they could work on different weave patterns and figure out how to set it differently to make it impact resistant for a phone, but otherwise, Titanium is as bad ass as it gets for these devices.

<-- Disclosure: Not a materials expert.

Yes, i will be very happy with my Titanium, but the openness to alternative materials and finishes is appreciated, and this is a prime example. It will be cool to see what the actual Titanium finish they finalized is like up close.

 

[Eric Lange]

Nice post. There are serious functional design considerations in the material selection for any smartphone. Kevlar does not block RF, which is likely why it was selected for those back panels. The antennas will certainly be in those areas (which makes you wonder how performance will be affected when a battery or camera module is attached...)



Add CDMA to that list, if the phone is to be Project Fi certified, as Jim has suggested.

Tony V you crack me up... Do you work for Google by any chance lol / ;-)

Did Jim ever say anything that had the two letters if Fi (in it) or even mention Google once?

What is this obsession with munging everything HYDROGEN into GOOGLE? (I'm joshing you a bit/shrugging shoulders)... [Now let's see what IS the appropriate emoticon to be selected... f*** it can't be bothered lol].

Cheers,

Eric

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Tic-toc how much time left on the clock? preeeeeee'orders closing soon.. ?

 

[John Chambers]

I'd like my titanium to be coloured "SR-71 Black" :thumbsup:

 

[Eric Lange]

I suspect pre-orders are for the purpose of guaging interest.

Plus, once committed, if time isn't too stretched out, buyers are more apt to not opt out. For any already familiar with the RED ecosystem, day one purchases were no-brainers and helped create buzz. If they just showed with a new phone, albeit a fantastic one, there would have been no build-up and would have maybe flopped.

There's a lot of good stuff out there that we may have never heard of.

COPY that, very good point...

That's one thing I like about RED is that some of these speculative threads do develop some really good applications IMO.

It's a good Guinea pig shake out/ "sand-pit"/ think tank/ product perception tool as-well I think... and also if enough folks thing that something is a good idea then maybe that can make into a product mix...

I think the pre-order idea does make people feel more involved and of course you kinda preferentially select for folks that are much more sympathetic and aligned with REDs goals and how RED wants to serve it's "Core" user base.

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As far as "flops" and thing "tanking" goes... the one thing I really like about HYDROGEN and Jim's LEIA project and involvement ... IS , that evn if all the broadcast and commercial media applications totally failed (which I don't think they will), but suppose they did, never the less ALL the non-entertainment based applications of HYDROGEN and LEIA tech are here to stay FOREVER... (pretty much until something much better comes along and that could be a very long time indeed)... So I'm thinking Industry and industry 4.0 , Engineering, Aerospace, Manufacturing, Many many medical and imaging applications + dental + cosmetic surgery, myriads of commercial applications (like what folks have been saying) real estate, Advertising, travel, VR/ visualization technologies and education + games, and many many other applications, GPS in car navigation/displays... General telepresence... Applications and general person to person mobile communication + advanced spatial photography... + many reality capture and measurement based applications too... Not to mention habitat recording and all the different flavors of conservation out there from endangered species to World Heritage sites and other more international level projects and concerns.

AND that does not even cover the social media applications and general use of the modules for news and reporting and small form factor cinematics...

So even if a multi-POV streamed entertainment application like (battle of the bastards GOT) in h4V multistreamed from different protagonists points of view right in the action, that all that suddenly falls out of fashion... ALL the real world applications made possible by HYDROGEN and H4V and LEIA will still stand and move forward... That's NOT going to recede and will certainly find tens of thousands of different applications in daily life.

But still a kick-ass tool for active "film makers" no matter what

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[Eric Lange]

I'd like my titanium to be coloured "SR-71 Black" :thumbsup:

The interesting thing about Titanium depending on how it's finished... Or how its been treated or nearly burnt up or scorched... Is that flat on some of the surface treatments and patina can be quite "matt/dull" (as Phill puts it old space ship black) but when you turn it through an angle or like on the SR-71 underside when light hits it at a particular angle it has this really almost peculiar Prussian blue (almost) deep optical effect... I LOVE optically active surfaces... Other surface treatments create different effects but always liked that super deep type Prussian blue to black effect depending on what a surface or facet angle might be... I have a Pinterest pages that collect all those kinds of design samples and surface effects. [I'm not spilling the beans on what our color schemes may be for some fun hardware we have on the drawing board right now... + having to learn more about CF as a structural material so that changes the look and design of things into an even cooler realm)... Fun stuff

I always remembered too the titanium jewelry technique that makes the rainbow colors too...

Titanium otherwise is a dull and odd locking metal when cut/machined... So the surface finishes are a must, but the fact that the metal is so strong compared to its weight. Where normally steel alloys are too heavy and aluminum alloys like T4 (treatment) on 6061 or something is lighter but no where near as strong as titanium.

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It's interesting at the Smithsonian they have the Horton Ho/Goete GO (sp) Ho 229 WWII experimental aircraft built by the Horton brothers that had twin jet engine and delta swept back flying wing (decades ahead of its time/desperate measures) BUT the thing that's fun is that it's wings were made of PLYWOOD and the engines were in the body of the aircraft so the adhesive and wood laminations are VERY radar absorbing... First JET powered stealth aircraft in the world! So I was thinking about the adhesives/resins used in Carbon fiber would indeed bee quite radar absorbing as well and maybe not so easy for a "Smart Phone" lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229

 

[John Chambers]

Yes, titanium can be quite a 'boring' looking metal in the raw, but I expect it's going to be far from boring looking once we're holding it in our hands.

 

[Adam Montville]

Tony V you crack me up... Do you work for Google by any chance lol / ;-)

Did Jim ever say anything that had the two letters if Fi (in it) or even mention Google once?

What is this obsession with munging everything HYDROGEN into GOOGLE? (I'm joshing you a bit/shrugging shoulders)... [Now let's see what IS the appropriate emoticon to be selected... f*** it can't be bothered lol].

Cheers,

Eric

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Tic-toc how much time left on the clock? preeeeeee'orders closing soon.. ?

He never said anything besides "Yes".

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...January-22nd&p=1785709&viewfull=1#post1785709

 

[Bruce Buck]

One thing to consider, Red has always had more costly option on every release since the epic that just had a different shell and no extra functionality. Then it was the epic M, later carbon, then the forged weapon and the stormtrooper helium. All sold for a bit extra with no real benefits at the time of purchase. But for each and every one of them it later turned out to be beneficial when upgrading. just my guess, Ti hydrogen buyers will get something extra, more than a more bulletproof housing. Possibly a discount or first in line when modules are released.

Bought five all together 2 Ti and 3 Al.

Another thing that they seem to do is reward those who take the leap of faith, without knowing all the details or how it will all shake out. One benefit already mentioned was for those who ordered day one...

 

[H Dewey]

Another thing that they seem to do is reward those who take the leap of faith, without knowing all the details or how it will all shake out. One benefit already mentioned was for those who ordered day one...

Had forgotten the wording on that limited to day one orders.

Not sure if that means an earlier shipment or if it has something like a JJ etched into the screen in a corner. But whatever, I'm sure it will be special so I will only use those on shoots I am personally responsible for.

 

[John Chambers]

I kind of took that to mean all pre-orders, as it has been in this document all the time: http://downloads.red.com/hydrogen.pdf

i.e. "today" meaning any day you pre-ordered one...

 

[Eric Lange]

He never said anything besides "Yes".

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...January-22nd&p=1785709&viewfull=1#post1785709

Interesting ... Not sure on the scope of what the Fi program would exclude ?

Hmmmm Interesting ... very interesting ...

 

[Eric Lange]

Another thing that they seem to do is reward those who take the leap of faith, without knowing all the details or how it will all shake out. One benefit already mentioned was for those who ordered day one...

WOW!

... cool.

 

[Tony Vittimberga]

Interesting ... Not sure on the scope of what the Fi program would exclude ?

Hmmmm Interesting ... very interesting ...

Now you’re cracking me up, Eric

 

[Phil Holland]

Love where your head's at on this! There are some awesome things you can do with titanium.

Here's a stupid question that I feel is worth asking... WHY DOES RED DO PRE-ORDERS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Rather than just go... Here you go... they're ready!

Curious as RED has capital where pre-orders are not necessity.

I LIKE the pre-order idea but curious as to the specific rationale beyond tradition and 'RED-culture".

Not a stupid question, but also not likely a clear answer to be had. Bare in mind there's other companies that do pre-orders as well, but in the case of RED I can see lots of advantages to pre-orders.

For instance, in the case of the RED Hydrogen One this first batch is "Jim's first batch" and by pre-ordering you've given RED a clear idea of what the first run should be numbers-wise. Funding-wise, Jim could put the cash up for whatever amount of phones, but there needs to be a specific quantity ordered of course and there's no reason to overshoot that by a few hundred or thousand if you can avoid it.

Outside of that. RED's a private company and one thing they've always done was treat early adopters well, which is why pre-orders people will get whatever the "special surprise" is. This is an important thing actually as the success of many of RED's project hinges on the decision to jump in early and ideally doing good work with those products. This is a much bigger deal when you take into account the expense involved with digital cinema cameras, a whole line of accessories, and camera models that stretch across several market segments. RED for instance isn't going to blindly pre-fab 1,000 of camera X if they don't have those cameras moving. That's a significant amount of labor, expense, and all that.

There's another reality of going the other way, if Hydrogen One didn't receive some momentum driving pre-orders I imagine there was a plug to be pulled or perhaps something that would need to be re-examined. However, we're not in that scenario as there's been clear interest and now working phones in the hands of Jim and Jarred.

The key words of gauging interest and also the question "how much interest?", this helps in areas all across the board. Right down the manufacturing level.

 

[Eric Lange]

One thing to consider, Red has always had more costly option on every release since the epic that just had a different shell and no extra functionality. Then it was the epic M, later carbon, then the forged weapon and the stormtrooper helium. All sold for a bit extra with no real benefits at the time of purchase. But for each and every one of them it later turned out to be beneficial when upgrading. just my guess, Ti hydrogen buyers will get something extra, more than a more bulletproof housing. Possibly a discount or first in line when modules are released.

Bought five all together 2 Ti and 3 Al.

Bjorn ' s got me thinking about an additional 3 aluminums too...


5 stereo cameras is a good magic number for 360 inward human head and shoulders/ figure or seated figure recording ... The 3d mosaicking of the separate fragments into one whole is better with nice overlap between 3d fragments from different shots.

Although for more general use that is not dynamic the wave the thing around like a reverse flashlight that sucks 3d data and color can also work... (within sensible limits)...

@Bjorn what are you fixin to do with 5 units? (If that is too much of a foreword question? ) (blink blink ).