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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How much is the Epix X->monstro upgrade?

roryhinds said:
so its still very unclear if the sensors in the camera brains will be upgradable.
Please set us straight, will we have a upgrade path with Epic that isn't just buying a new camera body.
Click to expand...

We will likely (not for sure) make a sensor upgrade path for a brain BUT. It probably is a bad idea for two reasons.

1. The electronics that goes with a given Brain will likely hold back some capability of a new sensor. It may be major or it may be minor... don't know right now, which is why we have no official position. Remember that electronics inside the Brain will also improve as time goes along. That's why we prefer the "matched set" approach of sensor and electronics inside a Brain.

2. The cost to upgrade just the sensor in an existing Brain will be relatively expensive, nearly the cost of a new brain (75-80%?). In that case, you'll end up with only one working Brain instead of two. Buying a new Brain and selling the old Brain, even at 50% of it's original cost would make better business sense. Or at least it makes more sense to me.

I'm answering you because you asked and are a good customer. But this is not an official, final position. Just thinking out loud. This is one of those "subject to change" thoughts because we really aren't prepared to tell you anything yet. There is a lot of time for us to develop a final position before anyone has to make any kind of decision.

My best.

Jim
 
Thanks Jim - Might I respectfully suggest that (obviously with a marked price difference in mind, naturally) that there be a comparable upgrade offer to the monstro brain direct from a Red One - Ie : EPICX (at such and such a price) 35FF X (at such and such a price) - etc.

The (great) offer you have made to red one customers is really that their upgrade will include all the bits n' bobs to form a complete camera - might that offer be extended (with a natural and expected price increase) to the higher DR sensors? (I fully realize this is looking a gift horse in the mouth but thought I'd put it out there anyway).

The problem that the offer has thrown up is that it is too good a deal to pass up - those of us likely to go to Monstro sensors are unable to avail of any offer without a complicated buy/then sell transaction on a sensor that will be devalued when Monstro is available. This, in a nutshell, is the dilemma.

Best.

J.
 
James T Mather said:
...This, in a nutshell, is the dilemma.

Best.

J.
Click to expand...

You must admit these are great dilemmas to have?

Hope Red appreciate the whole nature of our industry is 'get pushing and keep asking'??

Michael (delighted to be looking forward to lighter, frame faster, and better made cameras) Lindsay
 
Jannard said:
We will likely (not for sure) make a sensor upgrade path for a brain BUT. It probably is a bad idea for two reasons.

1. The electronics that goes with a given Brain will likely hold back some capability of a new sensor. It may be major or it may be minor... don't know right now, which is why we have no official position. Remember that electronics inside the Brain will also improve as time goes along. That's why we prefer the "matched set" approach of sensor and electronics inside a Brain.

2. The cost to upgrade just the sensor in an existing Brain will be relatively expensive, nearly the cost of a new brain (75-80%?). In that case, you'll end up with only one working Brain instead of two. Buying a new Brain and selling the old Brain, even at 50% of it's original cost would make better business sense. Or at least it makes more sense to me.

I'm answering you because you asked and are a good customer. But this is not an official, final position. Just thinking out loud. This is one of those "subject to change" thoughts because we really aren't prepared to tell you anything yet. There is a lot of time for us to develop a final position before anyone has to make any kind of decision.

My best.

Jim
Click to expand...

Not to be ungrateful, please dont get me wrong. But if the upgrade from Epic X towards Monstro is "complicated" then why not offer an upgrade path from the R1 to FF35 Epic just like the one you offered in Epic X?:usd:
 
Don't get me wrong - it's a high class problem and one I'm more than happy to have.

I was just hoping that there might be some way (and I'm happy to pay the difference btw) that the upgrade to Monstro might be in one step as opposed to two.

Perhaps simply not availing of the generous Epic-X offer is the way to go. Just regrettably means that all the bits n' pieces (available for free in the Epic-X deal now are no longer included - creates a bit of a Hobson's choice for the Red One owners is all). Either get an Epic-X with all the bits OR get a monstro and have to buy them. (or, thirdly, sell the brain but with Monstro out by then are people going to want to buy?).

In any event it's all a great deal. Apologies if it came off as pushy (I just have 2 cameras and upgrading both to Monstro is going to prove prohibitive). As it is, I am likely to be swapping 2 complete working cameras for two incomplete modular kits which is a bit of a drag).
 
I'm in the same dilemma and those new renders of the Epic-X certainly don't help. But then I think of how great my RED ONE is, and I look forward to another year of use before I trade it in for FULL value towards an FF35. How great is that!?

Guys, don't worry (about those free modules), be happy!

Happy Holidays!
 
Jannard said:
We will likely (not for sure) make a sensor upgrade path for a brain BUT. It probably is a bad idea for two reasons.

1. The electronics that goes with a given Brain will likely hold back some capability of a new sensor. It may be major or it may be minor... don't know right now, which is why we have no official position. Remember that electronics inside the Brain will also improve as time goes along. That's why we prefer the "matched set" approach of sensor and electronics inside a Brain.

2. The cost to upgrade just the sensor in an existing Brain will be relatively expensive, nearly the cost of a new brain (75-80%?). In that case, you'll end up with only one working Brain instead of two. Buying a new Brain and selling the old Brain, even at 50% of it's original cost would make better business sense. Or at least it makes more sense to me.

I'm answering you because you asked and are a good customer. But this is not an official, final position. Just thinking out loud. This is one of those "subject to change" thoughts because we really aren't prepared to tell you anything yet. There is a lot of time for us to develop a final position before anyone has to make any kind of decision.

My best.

Jim
Click to expand...

I appreciate the thinking out load. I can understand the difficulty in upgrading rather than replacing, and if the cost/performance ratio of electronic components improve, then upgrading should make sense economically too. Thanks for the straight talk.

The only piece of the puzzle for me now is.. why is the X offer not extended to FF35 models? I suspect its simply so you don't shoot yourself in the foot with an unrealistic price, for something down the road, not built yet, which is also fair enough.

Nearer the time, I'd definately like to exchange my R1 for something less obselete, in terms of rental potential (yes it will be, but at least you did it yourselves and I think everyone has faith :) )

Some minor details with the R1 (actually, only some accessories) , I've noticed, literally in the last month while the body has been back at Red HQ getting fixed up (a loose cable to the sensor, which Brent & co sorted out, and which nearly drove me mad for six months whilst I worried that redcode wasn't North Yorkshire compatible..which thankfully it is..)

i) the piece of plastic on the red cradle, that makes the V shape for the battery to sit in, has split (hair line) down the middle, its not been stressed, or used much. Don't know if this is different than the battery plate holes issue or not. I have faith that it will crack eventually (I have a battery belt as backup when it does), I just hope its not a common problem.

ii) Please avoid Red painted bands around the front of lenses (like the original 300mm), Red paint is expensive, and its flaking off already! (please loose unnecessary paint altogether when possible).

Its a none issue, but if I was to sell the lense it would detract from the real value, as it makes the lense look like its been treated harshly, whereas the truth is its barely been used.

iii) many of my Red bolts are going rusty, somewhat prematurely considering dry indoor storage. not really an issue, as they can all be replaced (I have loads), but if any wingnuts go the same way, at $20 each.. lets just say I have no spares in stock.. please avoid wingnuts!

These aren't complaints, just some personal feedback as you go into development round 2, and I haven't heard them already.., good luck and happy new year
 
estebanred said:
Not to be ungrateful, please dont get me wrong. But if the upgrade from Epic X towards Monstro is "complicated" then why not offer an upgrade path from the R1 to FF35 Epic just like the one you offered in Epic X?:usd:
Click to expand...

We have... full trade-in of your RED ONE towards any EPIC. What am I missing?

Jim
 
Actually, lest I whinge too much (and God Knows I hate whiners - myself included) - I am interested to know the specs on the Mysterium X select - if it has wider DR then happy days.

The EpicX deal is pretty incredible I must say. (Above and Beyond the call of duty by any stretch of corporate imagination)
 
Curran Giddens said:
I think they are worried about not getting free modules with the FF35 Epic upgrade....

:greedy:
Click to expand...

You nailed it. But when you mean they, I guess you are not.
The treat for the Epic X S35 is fantastic. The add ons are one of a kind!
Its not that we are worried, I am just trying to understand why did they choose to do that only for the S35. That's all:umm:
 
Don't get me wrong, I would love free modules with my FF35. I just can't justify asking for it on top of the generous offers that we are already given.

I'm sure if enough people kept nagging and whining about it, Jim would eventually give in. But it would be at the expense of taking some of the fun (and profit) out of it for Jim/RED. We are already getting pretty spoiled when you think about it.
 
Jannard said:
We have... full trade-in of your RED ONE towards any EPIC. What am I missing?

Jim
Click to expand...

You're missing the fact that certain people here should pipe down and simply say, "Thank you, Jim." Actually, that full trade-in value thing should be the end of it. How can anyone ask for more than that? They can sell their R1 for what they paid for it. Can I do that with my Canon 1Ds Mark II? No. Can I get a full trade in value on some washed up Sony F900? Oh, hell no.

I do understand that the Epic X thing might be some type of business strategy to keep selling Red Ones in the meantime? It makes sense, both from your point of view, and the customers'. Obviously you don't want R1 sales to suddenly halt over the next year as you build and then roll out the DSMC line. Is that a correct?

The only thing R1 owners need to keep in mind is that they should be sure to buy accessories that will work with DSMC, to the extent possible. People could lose a little dough on accessories, but then again you can always sell those on ebay or here to new R1 owners.
 
I think before one suggests others what to do one should be aware of what context surrounds them or take a bunch of things in consideration. I dont understand how can anyone come up and patronize without taking some other stuff into the equation. What its nice about these and all discussions in the forum is that there are options, options are beautiful. And for that I have thanked Jim not once, but many many times. Even more, I bought a R1.

Sorry for my rusty english. Its not my native language. I hope this is not taken the wrong way.
 
And yet again.

estebanred said:
I am just trying to understand why did they choose to do that only for the S35. That's all:umm:
Click to expand...

I am figuring out what my best options is. Taking into account my market, my business, my finances, my surroundings, my expectations, what suits me best. We are all in the same situation here. Doubts arise while I consider and examine what would be best and I share my doubts in the forum in case anyone has the same feeling or doubt or inquiry can get a clear mind, like I want to. I really like that the forum gives you this space to evolve this ideas and help each other make up their minds. :huh:
 
Where I come from, when someone offers you something essentially for free, or some kind of gift (free modules, full trade in value, etc), you say thank you and either accept or not. You never ask them for more free stuff. I learned that when I was in grade school.

BTW, Jim just posted this:

You guys crack me up. Who drew a line in the sand? Someday there will be a Monstro sensor for S35 EPIC. And it will go in the RED ONE. But this one will take some time to develop.

Please read my SS post again. The bad assumptions are starting to wear on me.

If you need the perfect camera in every way, just sit back and wait a few years. But do me a favor and stop posting stupid stuff until then...

I need a timeout.

Jim
Click to expand...

I cannot blame him. I highly suggest that people chill out on asking him for more free stuff.

The best bet, IMO, is just to wait for Epic FF35 Monstro if Monstro is what you want. That's the camera most of us want ( I know I do!) So just be patient. He's already laid out some incredibly generous offers. Just accept those and be patient.
 
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