Helium weird bokeh / clipped highlights (RED tech please look at this)

[Björn Benckert]

A few files for testing... + I believe a lot of the these artifacts are from pushing to hard from a DC2 RG4 starting point.

View attachment 89230

r3d = https://www.dropbox.com/s/qebc5j6vxudhsms/A001_C046_1019MQ.0000330F.R3D?dl=0
tif 8k as shot DC2 RG4 = https://www.dropbox.com/s/dj3336mopezwx19/OUTSIDEBARTEST_dc2_rg2_AS_SHOT.0000330.tif?dl=0
tif 8k simple CC still DC2 RG4 = https://www.dropbox.com/s/6wjau1f1vf3a2ph/OUTSIDEBARTEST_dc2_rg2_CC.0000330.tif?dl=0
tif 8k RWG L3G10 = https://www.dropbox.com/s/jpsrw1hrhx9p42q/OUTSIDEBARTEST_WGR_L3G10.0000330.tif?dl=0

View attachment 89231

r3d = https://www.dropbox.com/s/moz8xyzk3dcvylo/A001_C034_1019ZQ.0000103F.R3D?dl=0
tif 8k as shot DC2 RG4 = https://www.dropbox.com/s/ifzs369c36aadt6/A001_C034_1019ZQ_DCRG2_AS_SHOT.0000103.tif?dl=0
tif 8k simple CC still DC2 RG4 =https://www.dropbox.com/s/vheiaiglk5d49ef/A001_C034_1019ZQ_DCRG2_CC.0000103.tif?dl=0
tif 8k RWG L3G10 = https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2jnvwl456j9vm1/A001_C034_1019ZQ_WGR_P3G10.0000103.tif?dl=0

Here two extremes iso 250 and 6800

PastedGraphic-9 by Björn Benckert, on Flickr



PastedGraphic-8 by Björn Benckert, on Flickr

 

[Tim Daust]

wow those lights by her mouth/nose were doing the artifacts pretty badly before, I dont see it above at all now.

 

[Tim Daust]

r3d = https://www.dropbox.com/s/7wpfgrjd06xtc28/A001_C003_101855.0000662F.R3D?dl=0
tif 8k as shot = https://www.dropbox.com/s/g7s6owwpfjrh3u7/A001_C003_101855_AS_SHOT.0000662.tif?dl=0
tif 8k CC = https://www.dropbox.com/s/aspaz8mfve3o0km/A001_C003_101855_CC_.0000663.tif?dl=0
tif 8k RGW/L3G10 = https://www.dropbox.com/s/9f9mtooeaay2kmd/A001_C003_101855_RWG.0000662.tif?dl=0

 

[Derek Carlson]

Graeme, save us!

 

[Nick Morrison]

I think everyone needs to wait for the new color science...without it we're just grasping at straws.

As for the clipping, the HARD clipping is again most likely color science based.

That said, considering how good Helium is in lowlight, it wouldn't surprise me if it handles highlights differently than Dragon.

 

[Phil Holland]

Glad I was able to watch Westworld first, but....

by the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes:




A = DRAGONcolor2/REDgamma4
B = REDWideGamutRGB/Log3G10 + Graeme's incredible hard work that is coming soon.

Click for bigger.

 

[Derek Carlson]

Wow! That RWG/Log3G10 makes a big difference. The rolloff is much nicer, and the colors are spot on. I'll be dumping Dragon Color until Graeme's magic sauce becomes available.

 

[Fergus Cahill]

Thanks Phil. Night and day

 

[Tristan Houghton]

Dropped dragon colour too and now using widegamut and log3g10 with lutifyme arrilogc to rec709 version 3 and watched my footage transform in front of me. so I'm excited to see what magic your playing with Phil.

 

[paulcurtis]

If the worst we can find is clipping in bokeh highlights then i think we're all good

Colour science math can get complicated pretty fast when we're clipping beyond destination primaries, video cameras tend to saturate and reigning that in is part and parcel of all that work that goes into getting images. I've dealt with much worse from other cameras, RAW files that produce negative greens in resolve, creating strange reds and so on. One of the beauties of the Red ecosystem is that it is end to end a system tailored to these cameras.

The colours shown already in Tims low light test are really amazing. As i mentioned, i've dealt with so many really big problems under saturated lights on other systems that to see this out of camera is really encouraging.

Taking a step back - fussing about out of focus areas. Well i was watching westworld (shot on film i believe) and found the grade with salmon saturated highlights really offputting. That was on skin. Frankly in the grand scheme of things this is so minor when you look at a whole pipeline and resulting image.

Hopefully(!) my EW will arrive soon!

cheers
Paul

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I wounder why people still use DragonColor2 and RedGamma4?...

It only should be used in low saturated and low contrast shots.

Pat

 

[Björn Benckert]

I wounder why people still use DragonColor2 and RedGamma4?...

It only should be used in low saturated and low contrast shots.

Pat

I think for dragon it works well for a lot of footage, for Helium not so much. I would say all current colors science will play trix on you if you use it with helium.

 

[Chris McKechnie]

Very interesting indeed

 

[Mike Finegan]

LOL - but speed of roll off is what the issue is I guess

 

[Mike Finegan]

what is usable dynamic range on this image - face looks washed out when you preserve bokeh highlights - but might just be monitor dynamic range

 

[Graeme Nattress]

So looking at the R3D, what you're seeing are colours that cannot be properly represented under REC709 and thus go funky. To avoid this for now, best use original DragonColor or RWG/Log3G10. Testing new processing here on the R3D (thanks for the links to the R3D) shows it's all working as expected and making some nice images.

Graeme

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Why not RED just disable DragonColor2 and RedGamma4 for Helium cameras?

 

[Todd T]

So looking at the R3D, what you're seeing are colours that cannot be properly represented under REC709 and thus go funky...
Graeme

How long will take for everyone (DITs, colorists, etc) to break that habit? Everyone with Helium needs to start that conversation so that everyone is aware of this situation.

 

[Derek Carlson]

So looking at the R3D, what you're seeing are colours that cannot be properly represented under REC709 and thus go funky. To avoid this for now, best use original DragonColor or RWG/Log3G10. Testing new processing here on the R3D (thanks for the links to the R3D) shows it's all working as expected and making some nice images.

Graeme

Any good options for a Log3G10>REC 709 lut while we wait?

 

[Phil Holland]

Why not RED just disable DragonColor2 and RedGamma4 for Helium cameras?

No. That's not a good suggestion at all. This is mainly an issue of out of gamut/edge of gamut colors.

How long will take for everyone (DITs, colorists, etc) to break that habit? Everyone with Helium needs to start that conversation so that everyone is aware of this situation./QUOTE]

This isn't "just a Helium thing". Out of gamut colors are the hard stuff. Dragon and Helium are prone to this under certain conditions. This shouldn't be much of an issue for a colorist in reality.

The good news is, is Graeme has been working on something that is a bit more ideal for all shooting conditions. It's just not ready for prime time yet because the boards are still loose and need to be bolted down.