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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Heard a rumor that DSMC3 has no advanced playback due to request of the unions?

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Michael Desiderio

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Heard this rumor that RED has opted not to add playback loop, reverse, in and out, clip location flagging etc in an appeasement to the ICG because it was stepping on the toes of VTR

which of course is a union position that doesn’t exist on any of my commercial product shoots and makes reviewing of shots very difficult

if true please just add like a “union mode” firmware option that disables playback controls so nobody accidentally breaks union rules
 
That is a bit ridiculous and appears to be a rumor. Jarred implied that they’ve been working on it during Scott Valium’s Raptor Livestream with Jarred a few months back.

“Our playback situation is abysmal on Raptor and Komodo…. Playback is way behind”

”we are so behind on the looping and playback on V-Raptor. Trust me I yell at them all the time (laughs)”

watch the livestream for better context. Hopefully it shows up in the next big firmware build.
 
Drew Baird said:
That is a bit ridiculous and appears to be a rumor. Jarred implied that they’ve been working on it during Scott Valium’s Raptor Livestream with Jarred a few months back.

“Our playback situation is abysmal on Raptor and Komodo…. Playback is way behind”

”we are so behind on the looping and playback on V-Raptor. Trust me I yell at them all the time (laughs)”

watch the livestream for better context. Hopefully it shows up in the next big firmware build.
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Well I’m hopeful that is the case, but it could also be covering up for the political decision. The fact that it’s literally been years since Komodo came out and there has been no official statements that I can find tells me something is rotten.
 
Michael Desiderio said:
Well I’m hopeful that is the case, but it could also be covering up for the political decision. The fact that it’s literally been years since Komodo came out and there has been no official statements that I can find tells me something is rotten.
Click to expand...

Raptor and Komodo is as I understand complete rewrites, where as DSMC2 GUI is built on what Epic MX had. Such rewrites usually takes time, and a lot of time some features get lost in the process. But yes the playback menu of DSMC2 was crazy good compared to most others. So hopefully they make it like that but better. I doubt they care about the video assist Union guy... Or who says he can't deal with it all via a OSX device.
 
Im not sure Im understand this correctly.
I can playback very easily on my app when reviewing clips..
Im guessing you mean on the side of the camera ??? I know its limited but very easy to slide my finger to find the interested part of the clip.
 
Still not having an option to loop a playback, no 2x and 4x to show slow motion back at live speed and no reverse is very annoying.
I have to explain to clients and agencies all the time that I now have a fancy new 8k camera but they can’t see the take as intended unless we offload to a computer, move to a different screen and loose 20 minutes.
Of course in an ideal world we always have a DIT on set with his full setup… but without a DIT it’s a big step backwards.
If anyone has a decent workaround setup please share. I have not had time to test various Atomos or Videoassist recorders to see if I can alt least get one to auto-record so the clip duration is identical and I do not have to press record on multiple devices.
 
Martin Konrad said:
Still not having an option to loop a playback, no 2x and 4x to show slow motion back at live speed and no reverse is very annoying.
I have to explain to clients and agencies all the time that I now have a fancy new 8k camera but they can’t see the take as intended unless we offload to a computer, move to a different screen and loose 20 minutes.
Of course in an ideal world we always have a DIT on set with his full setup… but without a DIT it’s a big step backwards.
If anyone has a decent workaround setup please share. I have not had time to test various Atomos or Videoassist recorders to see if I can alt least get one to auto-record so the clip duration is identical and I do not have to press record on multiple devices.
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Patience, when DSMC1 was released it did not have a playback menu and no sound recording, it was features that came in a later firmware release... ;)
 
Björn Benckert said:
Patience, when DSMC1 was released it did not have a playback menu and no sound recording, it was features that came in a later firmware release... ;)
Click to expand...

it’s been over 18 months since release, these features were part of both dsmc1 and dsmc2. Komodo has been out even longer and has not received any update regarding these features. This could be implemented in app and not even require a camera firmware. My only logical conclusion at this point is that they intentionally hamstrung the cameras for various reasons.
 
Michael Desiderio said:
My only logical conclusion at this point is that they intentionally hamstrung the cameras for various reasons.
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Out a shear curiosity, have you emailed RED support with these feature requests?

I've mentioned it once not too long ago as a request.
 
Phil Holland said:
Out a shear curiosity, have you emailed RED support with these feature requests?

I've mentioned it once not too long ago as a request.
Click to expand...

I and many have. official response i got is lack of camera memory available to implement the features

some of these features don’t even require the camera and can be done in app

And the camera has enough free memory to prerecord thousands of frames @8k…maybe it’s technically a different memory system for the cache though.

but I’m having a hard time believing they can’t even add a reverse playback or loop button…
 
Michael Desiderio said:
I and many have. official response i got is lack of camera memory available to implement the features

some of these features don’t even require the camera and can be done in app

And the camera has enough free memory to prerecord thousands of frames @8k…maybe it’s technically a different memory system for the cache though.

but I’m having a hard time believing they can’t even add a reverse playback or loop button…
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Interesting. There are indeed finite resources in every camera and there are feature roadmaps none of us ever know about. Like the eND being implemented and added for instance.

Everything that runs in the camera via the app requires the camera to do it. i.e. It's all RCP2 no matter what is driving it. The physical camera hardware needs to do it and know how to do it if it can do it.

It could be a matter of the hardware not being able, but if they are being fairly transparent that adding this feature into the firmware, code, and RCP2 support that does make sense, despite it not being the answer we would want.

The nature of REDCODE RAW as well as ProRes playing in reverse, X-speed, and whatever. Those are also two different worlds in terms of how that would need to be implemented. A decoding limitation is possible there too I guess.

The most I can say is those features would be nice to implement if possible.
 
Phil Holland said:
Everything that runs in the camera via the app requires the camera to do it. i.e. It's all RCP2 no matter what is driving it. The physical camera hardware needs to do it and know how to do it if it can do it.
Click to expand...

I think we need an engineer to come explain to us why the app isn’t able to call the play command when the clip ends, so it can just play again. Because when a clip reaches the last frame on playback, you just press the play button and it replays.
 
"Advanced playback controls" have been added in the new 1.6.1 Beta Firmware.

https://www.red.com/download/v-raptor-firmware-beta

SIGNIFICANT CHANGES SINCE RAPTOR 1.5.4
  • Added Face Detection Beta for Auto Focus
  • Added In-camera Online Firmware Upgrade method
  • Added Advanced Playback Controls
  • Added RED Connect SMPTE 2110 support
  • Added RED Connect Return Feed support
  • Added RED Connect NMOS support
  • Added multiple Calibration management
  • Added ISO Display Mode Gain (dB)
  • Added Remote Shutdown command
  • Added UDP discovery
  • Added Web UI for S3 credentials
  • Added clipname to HANC data during playback
  • Added DSMC3 RED Touch 7" 5.5.0beta firmware
  • Added DSMC3 RED Touch 7" GIO Scope Interface (5.50beta)
  • Added ability to disable DSMC3 RED Touch 7" Page System (5.5.0beta)
  • Added edit list functionality to DSMC3 RED Touch 7" (5.5.0beta)
  • Optimized RCP outgoing messages
  • Improved PTP locking
  • Improved playback transition on DSMC3 RED Touch 7" (5.5.0beta)
 
I’m very curious about these “Advanced Playback Controls”. I’ve updated to the beta and the controls are EXACTLY the same as they were before. Nothing advanced about them. That goes for both the app and the camera itself. I looked around the menu and didn’t see anything suggesting I could enable the new controls with a toggle. Has anyone had success here?

On the plus side though, the playback page loads much more smoothly than it did before.
 
If you updated camera fw and app you should see new loop feature and the option to playback off speed clips at either the recorded rate or at project frame rate…
 
Thanks for chiming in Mikael. I do see those now. I think I was looking for a ‘Play in Reverse’ button (which is a feature I would use often in SPFX scenarios) or playback speed controls. The loop and rec rate/proj rate are nice additions though.
 
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