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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Greg Williams " Tell Tale " in 1080p ( MX+EPIC )

Niko Pueringer said:
I've gotta say, this looked like someone just cut together raw red footage and didn't bother even touching it with a basic color grading app. If you're going to take the time to shoot on such a nice camera, why drop the ball on the coloring end?

The highlights at 1:44 looked atrocious. The hot highlights had been pulled down to a flat gray. Throughout the rest of the film, the blacks were very washed out, and skin tones were inconsistent between shots.

I can understand a muted, hazy, desaturated visual style, but there must be an indication that you are still putting care in to an image if you are going to go that route.

Sorry about the harsh critique. Just being honest.
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I have to agree.

It seems like the shots were composed and lit nicely, but there is a definite "digital" feel - especially in the highlights in many shots.

This should have been graded by a pro - and if it was - and was a stylistic choice, well - I guess I just don't like the style!

But it seems the raw materials were there - like I said - nice lighting - ruined by the grade in my opinion.

:-(
 
Niko Pueringer said:
I've gotta say, this looked like someone just cut together raw red footage and didn't bother even touching it with a basic color grading app. If you're going to take the time to shoot on such a nice camera, why drop the ball on the coloring end?
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Dylan Macleod said:
I have to agree.

It seems like the shots were composed and lit nicely, but there is a definite "digital" feel - especially in the highlights in many shots.

This should have been graded by a pro - and if it was - and was a stylistic choice, well - I guess I just don't like the style!

But it seems the raw materials were there - like I said - nice lighting - ruined by the grade in my opinion.

:-(
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Everyone's a critic. :nonod:

If there was only some way you could find out who graded this ... you could tell him directly.

Picture+2.png


Or perhaps you already have.
 
I think that technical criticism can be valid, especially when trying to gauge how good Epic and the new sensors are. Red is trying to make a 35mm film alternative, after all, and careful examination of the image is important.

That being said, I feel like most of what I am hearing here is very nit picky. Maybe there are people here that don't like the grading, or that there wasn't enough highlight protection, etc, and that is all well and good. I think the point that is being missed is that what we are seeing here are quality images that are telling a story. To be honest, I forgot all about Red, M-X, Epic, Scarlet, and these forums about halfway through the short.

The images don't feel digital to me at all. I thought they looked very organic and natural. I can see where you are coming from with the "digital" feel, Dylan, but I only think that is because when there are mistakes with digital, you are going to get digital artifacts. When you make mistakes with film, you will have "film" artifacts. That is a given. (Observation not originally made by myself, but I will incorporate it here.)

When looking at shots without the teeny technical flaws that have been pointed out, they generate the same feeling I get when I watch a film shot on 35mm film. The only real difference I see is that I am not used to seeing footage that is that clear, nor am I used to seeing all of that detail in the low-light portions. To me, that is a plus. You can always "dumb" it down for personal aesthetic.

Sure, there can be some technical critiques made, but I think getting wrapped up in those little details can be blinding when trying to see the big picture: film is getting a run for it's money.

Great job with this little short. :}
 
Peter Matthes said:
Everyone's a critic. :nonod:

If there was only some way you could find out who graded this ... you could tell him directly.

Picture+2.png


Or perhaps you already have.
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Heh heh heh a disclaimer... I did not do the grade of this movie.. Me and Dan just helped with the conform to 4K, not sure why I received a grade credit in there. Greg is an incredibly talented photographer and developed a certain "look" for this film, and its not for everyone...
 
Why do so many members post their films without giving more details on what lenses etc they used. I am currently reviewing what lenses to get for my Red , this info would be very useful. ie Master Primes versus Nikon/Canon etc.

Paul
 
I would expect this to be shot on RED Pro Primes - right Jarred? ;-)
 
Emanuel A. said:
LOL If I'm used to make my choices based on pictures, that's what for the metaphors (and an editor) should serve, right? ;-) :beer:
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Let us handle the metaphor laden images, everyone else should serve Guiness. ;-)
 
I agree, a strange grade where shots are not matched and definitely has a "digital" feel to it. Not saying its better or worse, but it's not "filmic". The grading errors seem to be a mistake though.....
 
Guys,

each movie has a story and also a sort of idea stands behind it...

That means the story can get you or can't.

Also movie making is not about a pretty graded pictures or so...

BTW, if you expressing problems with a grade there is a plug-in from Foundry's Furnance Core pack called Match Grade:

"MatchGrade copies the colour look from a reference sequence and applies this to the source image.
This technique involves a non-linear transformation of the colour histogram and is useful for balancing and colour matching plates to the master grade."


LINK>>>
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
Also movie making is not about a pretty graded pictures or so...
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Movie making is about pretty graded images as much as anything else. If you want to tell a story without those images, write a book.

Since this is a camera and cinematography forum, we tend to focus on those images, even though cinema is comprised of many arts. For the most part I don't think that folks here who are offering very specific critisisms are passing judgement on the film as a whole. That is to say that when I comment that this one shot doesn't match, I don't condemn the entire film. That would be a little myopic and unfair to the entire team behind it.
 
Scott Crawley said:
Movie making is about pretty graded images as much as anything else. If you want to tell a story without those images, write a book.

Since this is a camera and cinematography forum, we tend to focus on those images, even though cinema is comprised of many arts. For the most part I don't think that folks here who are offering very specific critisisms are passing judgement on the film as a whole. That is to say that when I comment that this one shot doesn't match, I don't condemn the entire film. That would be a little myopic and unfair to the entire team behind it.
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I wouldn't say that you know what are you talking about...???!!!

Movie making is simply not about a color grading pictures at first, at second, etc...

Maybe this could help me to illustrate what I wanted to say:

How to turn your boring movie into a Hitchcock thriller...>>>
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
I wouldn't say that you know what are you talking about...???!!!

Movie making is simply not about a color grading pictures at first, at second, etc...
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Since grading is one of the final steps in the process, you are correct; it isn't the first or second consideration... But I never said it was.

That is a great link, but I don't see how it refutes my assertion that exposue and color... That image quality has as much to do with the film making process as any other aspects of the craft.

No worries Sanjin. You have said worse things to better Cinematographers. I'll consider the source and move on.
 
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Scott Crawley said:
Since grading is one of the final steps in the process, you are correct; it isn't the first or second consideration... But I never said it was.

That is a great link, but I don't see how it refutes my assertion that exposue and color... That image quality has as much to do with the film making process as any other aspects of the craft.

No worries Sanjin. You have said worse things to better Cinematographers. I'll consider the source and move on.
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I have a suggestion for this forum: Any posts that say "It's all about the story" should be deleted, and the poster directed to a scriptwriting forum.

I don;t remeber this forum ever being called "Radio Broadcast User" or "Actor's Workshop Exchange" or anything like that.

It is a forum about CINEMATOGRAPHY. It is among few places on the net where the issue of images are discussed in a serious manner.
 
Yes and being able to achieve an image that allows you to grade to exactly what you want is incredibly important, I see grading as part of the process of cinematography.
 
Steve G said:
So when do we get to see your film Sanjin ? Been a long, long time since you got that Red.
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I don't know now just because it needs a lot of money even for a simple short film.

The same old story, sorry but I'll do it finally even with Monstro... :nopity: :embarassed: :001_cool:

BTW, I'm financing and producing my own stuff and it's almost like a private doing thing...

Hope you would understand that...
 
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