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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

First Look - Schneider Xenon FF-Prime Lenses

Christophe Deshoux said:
Hello everyone !

To those who we loved (and still love) the Red Pro Primes lenses... and now those who have the Schneider Xenon:
For film-feature (with Red Epic X): what is the choice?
(lease, do not talk about the differences in weight or beyond the limits to 5.5k ...)
I imagine that these two generations are not comparable (chroma aberration, colors homogeneity, etc ...).
The Xenon might be more comparable with Zeiss CP2? ... (Which for me, lacks cinematic character, clean, standard, good for video, clip, commercial ... but not for a short or long-feature)
Prices fall (when a Dragon pass over us ...) and I see no equivalent to RPP ... but maybe I'm wrong, that I underestimate the Xenon! ... (Despite the very explicit tests made by Phil)
Click to expand...

Got your email Christophe, sorry for the belated reply.

Optically speaking if we aren't taking coverage into account the Red Pro Primes are superior (resolving power and contrast) to the CP.2s and Xenons and they are also a hair faster. RPPs are pretty nice lenses and I personally enjoy their look. RPPs also have some really neat flares in my opinion if that's something important to you. They are however larger and heavier than the CP.2s, CN-Es, and Xenon Primes if that's something important for you to take into account.

You mentioned in your email character. For me the RPPs and Xenons maintain a consistent character and general look. I don't necessarily feel the same way about the CP.2s or CN-E primes, though they are all coated to match just fine. This more or less comes from the actual lens design behind each CP.2 and CN-E.

Which has a more cinematic character? Hmmm. I personally think you can shoot cinema style/quality images with all of these options. I know what I'd favor and use given the choices you have available.

For me, if it was a feature film and weight isn't a factor and you're shooting 5.5K I think for most situations I'd choose the Red Pro Primes actually. And they can be had at a steal these days.

Xenons I very much like and they are indeed a stellar value. They give you that 6K FF and beyond coverage. More or less they are "value standard speeds", which to me is something desirable.

I do actually like a few of the CP.2 and CN-E Primes as well. There's also a few in those sets I'm not totally in love with. They doesn't mean you shouldn't consider them though.
'
 
Phil thank you for your reply.
I actually think my choice will be on the RPP.
My only anxiety concerns the optical and mechanical condition, given their seniority (which often comes from the rental).
But Red has confirmed that they will continue to maintain the RPP.
With RPP, I have a complete set.
With Xenon, New, Europe, Marcotec offers 3 lens for € 9,000 ($ 11,800).
But only three focal lengths. 25 and 100 available in Europe by 1 or 2 months. but if I add these three, my budget will be far exceeded.


What remains difficult in my choice is to evaluate the difference when you say the Xenon are all classic style, modern.
For Xenon, which could be an argument for some, could be for me what I do not want: the modernity of a very clean, perfect image.


A contact told me that the RPP are very close to recent Cooke premiums and even higher the proportion / deformation of the frame sides. (for example)
If it's right, and since I do not have the money to invest in a set of Cooke, so I will not hesitate long.

I thought Schneider, with his series Xenon wants to compete, outperform CP Zeiss.
So is that the RPP are so far? ... That's my impression of the day.
But I have not tried the Xenon and the tests currently available are not obvious and not many. And then I have a production that is fast approaching.

In recent years the examples of productions that exploited the RPP, abound.
But for the Xenon, it's a little early. Not much for now. It's pretty logical.


If anyone has pictures of a recent production, do not hesitate.


For RPP, we always put the 18mm away from the set. Is it so bad?

(sorry for my bad english...)

Ch.
 
Phil Holland said:
Got your email Christophe, sorry for the belated reply.

Optically speaking if we aren't taking coverage into account the Red Pro Primes are superior (resolving power and contrast) to the CP.2s and Xenons and they are also a hair faster. RPPs are pretty nice lenses and I personally enjoy their look. RPPs also have some really neat flares in my opinion if that's something important to you. They are however larger and heavier than the CP.2s, CN-Es, and Xenon Primes if that's something important for you to take into account.

You mentioned in your email character. For me the RPPs and Xenons maintain a consistent character and general look. I don't necessarily feel the same way about the CP.2s or CN-E primes, though they are all coated to match just fine. This more or less comes from the actual lens design behind each CP.2 and CN-E.

Which has a more cinematic character? Hmmm. I personally think you can shoot cinema style/quality images with all of these options. I know what I'd favor and use given the choices you have available.

For me, if it was a feature film and weight isn't a factor and you're shooting 5.5K I think for most situations I'd choose the Red Pro Primes actually. And they can be had at a steal these days.

Xenons I very much like and they are indeed a stellar value. They give you that 6K FF and beyond coverage. More or less they are "value standard speeds", which to me is something desirable.

I do actually like a few of the CP.2 and CN-E Primes as well. There's also a few in those sets I'm not totally in love with. They doesn't mean you shouldn't consider them though.
'
Click to expand...

Hi Phil, you mention the resolving power of the RPPs is superior to the xenons and CP2s. Can you comment on the resolving power of the CN-Es? In the salt tests the canons lp/mm don't look great on paper, but I've had some pretty wicked sharp stills on a 5d3. Could it be because they did the measurements at WFO and everything equalizes at t2?

Sorry to jump in, I'm trying to decide on the best "budget" cine lens set myself.
 
Anyone get their 100mm from Filmtools yet? They aren't answering my email (yeah, I know I should just call... been busy).
 
I have actually not gotten either of my second delivery (the wide or the telephoto).. I did e-mail them because I also needed a new lens cap as one was lost on a shoot and they didn't respond. I need to call them as well but I too can't find the time to do so.
 
Tim Morten said:
Anyone get their 100mm from Filmtools yet? They aren't answering my email (yeah, I know I should just call... been busy).
Click to expand...


I was at Film Tools about 4 weeks ago and they said that they were being purchased and repurposing the store to no longer sell cameras, matte boxes, but only consumables. They had nothing on clearance and said the buyer was going to absorb the inventory of items they no longer were going to carry. I dearly loved their Black Friday sale and hope they are still there and have the same offer structure.

Thank you very much

Fury
 
any knowledge on how that would effect pre-orders on these lenses?
 
I have emailed them few weeks ago about the pending remaining lenses form the two set we purchased, so two 25mm & two 100mm, no response as of yet, truly unprofessional!!

I am not worry as Schneider is one of my corporate Sponsors and I am getting the rest of the lenses to the set already sponsored, but the purchase was made with an additional $500 discount which I promised to the buyer of the lenses sold... So I do fill the responsibility and I am not pleased at all with Filmtools as of now.

However on the good side, since Schneider is one of my sponsors, I am pretty confident that my buyer will be satisfied one way or the other.

But I do fill very sorry for every one else that purchased Thru Filmtools following the offer that Phil proposed us here on Reduser... No fault of Phil in no way of course in case isn't clear!!

BTW, the representative that we purchased the lenses thru, is also NO longer working at Filmtools.
 
Christophe Deshoux said:
What remains difficult in my choice is to evaluate the difference when you say the Xenon are all classic style, modern.
For Xenon, which could be an argument for some, could be for me what I do not want: the modernity of a very clean, perfect image.
Click to expand...

The Xenons don't have that "clinical" look of say Ultras or Masters, nor do they create crispy contrasty images like either of those Zeiss series do. In that way you should be happy.

The Red Pro Primes do have character, but they are impressive performers in other avenues.


Philip Lanyon said:
Hi Phil, you mention the resolving power of the RPPs is superior to the xenons and CP2s. Can you comment on the resolving power of the CN-Es? In the salt tests the canons lp/mm don't look great on paper, but I've had some pretty wicked sharp stills on a 5d3. Could it be because they did the measurements at WFO and everything equalizes at t2?

Sorry to jump in, I'm trying to decide on the best "budget" cine lens set myself.
Click to expand...

The CN-E, CP.2, and Xenons are all in the same general wheelhouse in terms of resolving power. Which is also one of the reasons they are all part of the same general pricing tier. For the SALT III Test we often tested WFO and stopped down to T2.8. However, I've had much more experience since that test and have done some real world shooting. The CN-Es are indeed nice and you can get some great images off of them. Same for the CP.2 and Xenons. It's more about getting familiar with how to extract the best nectar out of them.

Projecting and measuring the line pairs certainly tells you the technical hard answer, which is very useful. Shooting various things like faces, foliage, architecture, etc. under various lighting conditions gives you a fuller picture. All three of those series are very good for the price and ideal for those interesting in Dragon 6K FF shooting. I have my reservations about a few focal lengths in each of the series, but that doesn't stop them from making compelling images if used effectively.

For me Red Pro Primes at the prices they are going for are a freaking great deal especially for what the lenses are and what they can do.


Louis Maddalena said:
any knowledge on how that would effect pre-orders on these lenses?
Click to expand...

I've heard some chatter about a few things. I'll know more in September and get back to you guys. Hopefully whatever is going on doesn't turn into a wall to getting people the lenses.
 
For me the choice of RPP now seem clearly evident.
I do not doubt the qualities of Xenon, but I do not think they are what I want.
The value of RPP decline, and it's obviously unfortunate, but it allows me to have them.
Thank you for your comments.
 
Update...or shall I say Downdate...

There have not been many 100mm Xenons shipped, to date and I, therefore, feel very fortunate to have one.

There is more slippage, as regards the 25mm, however. The end Sept/beginning Oct. shipping date has been pushed back, but no new date for shipping available that I can find. Maybe by year end...then ? the 18mm

Than k you very much

Fury
 
Hi, this winter I would like to buy my first RED camera. Epic or Scarlet. And of course with that comes the choice of some lens/lenses. My budget won't be unlimited. So for kick off I would like to buy just one lens. So I want to ask you: What is the best versatile lens from Schneider Xenon FF-Primes? 35mm, 50mm or 75mm? Thanks for your valuable advice.
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
I have emailed them few weeks ago about the pending remaining lenses form the two set we purchased, so two 25mm & two 100mm, no response as of yet, truly unprofessional!!

I am not worry as Schneider is one of my corporate Sponsors and I am getting the rest of the lenses to the set already sponsored, but the purchase was made with an additional $500 discount which I promised to the buyer of the lenses sold... So I do fill the responsibility and I am not pleased at all with Filmtools as of now.

However on the good side, since Schneider is one of my sponsors, I am pretty confident that my buyer will be satisfied one way or the other.

But I do fill very sorry for every one else that purchased Thru Filmtools following the offer that Phil proposed us here on Reduser... No fault of Phil in no way of course in case isn't clear!!

BTW, the representative that we purchased the lenses thru, is also NO longer working at Filmtools.
Click to expand...

I stopped in there Wednesday when I was in Burbank and asked about the lenses. The guy that helped me looked up my order and told me what place in line I was and hopefully the 100mm should be in very soon. It looked like they were still dealing with reorganizing, so your email might have gone to an email address that's no longer being checked.
 
Matthew J said:
I stopped in there Wednesday when I was in Burbank and asked about the lenses. The guy that helped me looked up my order and told me what place in line I was and hopefully the 100mm should be in very soon. It looked like they were still dealing with reorganizing, so your email might have gone to an email address that's no longer being checked.
Click to expand...

That is goo news Matthew.

I'll touch basis with them again, as I know from Germany that there has been an other shipment this week, hopefully some will go to the US and Filmtools, I just want to make sure to make it right to the buyer to the set I sold him... I surely won't want to have to sale him mine... Which coincidentally his name is also Matthew... :)
 
Also B&H will ship our 100mm now, so I guess there´s some stock right now inside the store.
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
That is goo news Matthew.

I'll touch basis with them again, as I know from Germany that there has been an other shipment this week, hopefully some will go to the US and Filmtools, I just want to make sure to make it right to the buyer to the set I sold him... I surely won't want to have to sale him mine... Which coincidentally his name is also Matthew... :)
Click to expand...

Yes, that is very ironic his name is Matthew....very strange that he might actually be me! I had them note to call me when it comes in so they should contact me directly, but let me know if they do contact you just in case.
 
Karel,

I guess it really depends on what you plan on shooting, but if I were you I would start with the 35mm. If you buy a scarlet/epic and shoot 4k, the lens is actually more like a 50mm because of the camera (or higher I think...it's on the forums somewhere here, so look it up to be sure)...and 50mm is a good length to have. It's also a widest lens of the bunch thats currently released, and I like wide lenses =)
 
Rome Will said:
Karel,

I guess it really depends on what you plan on shooting, but if I were you I would start with the 35mm. If you buy a scarlet/epic and shoot 4k, the lens is actually more like a 50mm because of the camera (or higher I think...it's on the forums somewhere here, so look it up to be sure)...and 50mm is a good length to have. It's also a widest lens of the bunch thats currently released, and I like wide lenses =)
Click to expand...

Thank you for your advice. I guess you're right. It's the best to have the widest lens for the start. I'll try to find the forum that you suggested and find what's what with the lenses and resolutions. Thanks
 
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