Fantastic News For Red One (Mx) Users!! Is That Real ?!!

[Jack Smith]

It's the business game and Red wont easily give up share of their pie.

 

[Mendes Nabil]

Seriously Red? It's been more than 2 weeks, what about the answer you were supposed to give us? I come from a professional shooting and, damn, don't make me repeat what we all said before, "SHOOTING WITH A 16GB CARD IS UNACCEPTABLE IN EARLY 2014", a lot of shoot were cut before the end because of this DAMN LIMITATION!

I saw on the firmware specification (the last red one build) that "other CF brand are limited to 2k", so "shooting with other Cf cards" is possible.. Damn, i feel like you don't respect us because the dragon sensor is coming and people like us, with our "OLD RED ONE MX" we are so "Kitsch and has been like we say in french"..

Really? Is that what you think about us?

Because if it's the case, it is really really sad, the Red one Mx is the camera that made who you are today, just don't forget that, and people like us are just making the story continue..

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Seriously Red? It's been more than 2 weeks, what about the answer you were supposed to give us? I come from a professional shooting and, damn, don't make me repeat what we all said before, "SHOOTING WITH A 16GB CARD IS UNACCEPTABLE IN EARLY 2014", a lot of shoot were cut before the end because of this DAMN LIMITATION!

I saw on the firmware specification (the last red one build) that "other CF brand are limited to 2k", so "shooting with other Cf cards" is possible.. Damn, i feel like you don't respect us because the dragon sensor is coming and people like us, with our "OLD RED ONE MX" we are so "Kitsch and has been like we say in french"..

Really? Is that what you think about us?

Because if it's the case, it is really really sad, the Red one Mx is the camera that made who you are today, just don't forget that, and people like us are just making the story continue..

I hear what you are saying. The thing is, the Red One is EOL. Doesn't mean I don't use it but it's not 2010. We are seeing the fourth generation of Red Cameras and I'm just not sure how much more support for accessories we will see moving forward. Even the Red SSD is undergoing an upgrade so the standard SSDs will no longer be the "new" tech.

I think there is a case to be made for allowing third party CF cards to work with Red One at whatever resolution you can reliably get them to work. If that Sandisk card is the real deal, but only can do 4K HD at RC36, I would actually think that would be a good solution for many people. But Red has always had a strict policy about media and I think overall it does mean good things for endusers because you can go into a shoot feeling confident that you have media that has been certified to work. Nothing is perfect but it's a lot closer than going with off the shelf products that may have loose specs.

I would keep a very close eye on the used market over the next few weeks. You may see Red One SSD modules for sale, and some of the standard SSDs are coming down in price in the used market. I highly recommend anyone with a Red One to go this route. You can pick up a 256GB SSD for $1500-$1700 right now. Who knows, maybe prices will fall even further. That should extend the life of your Red One considerably.

 

[Mendes Nabil]

Steve, thanks for the time you give to this thread, i really appreciate, but let's be realistic, we are not asking for a way to make our Red one fly by themselves with invisible wings, we are asking for something "logical".

Again, let's be honest, the third party brand limitation was purely marketing, and i can understand that, but we are close to 2014, and what was "marketingly valid" is no more logic, because like you said, the Red one mx is an EOL camera!
And if they were so "worried" about our case, why let us use other Cf card brand on 2k mode? It's purely marketing, and like i said before, i can understand such a policy (even if i don't approve).
We are asking for something to be "REMOVED", A LIMITATION TO BE DELETED, and not for something to be made! It's much more easy to destroy than to build, and in our case, that's all we want!! This limitation does not make sense anymore, even the blackmagic pocket is capable of more with its Sd cards, seriously!

Ow, about the fact that we are now at the 4th generation Red camera, let's dont forget that the Red one has the Mx sensor, just like the Last Red camera (the real dragon sensor doesn't exist yet (only few people have it, and more than that, it's not the final version, we all wait to see what the new color science is capable of, so i don't take it into account)..

Again, just remove this Damn Limitation, and let us create as comfortably as our time supposes, because i really feel like you don't respect us..

 

[Marc Thorpe]

I call BS. Red was happy to take all pennies back in the day when it was deposits from an ardent fan base that helped develop what was at the time a revolutionary camera. For some of those deposits to be at the disposal of RED for almost two years before cameras were available was a show of utmost belief and dedication by those who supported the whole RED Ideal, who believed the words of Jim. At that time RED would bow and respond to most questions and concerns. And now? Now that they have morphed into what they are they no longer seem bothered by those who shoot at the lower end of the RED Scale. Their forum staff respond with flippant, condescending remarks as if to suggest; "Well if you can't keep up, get out". I think the camera name itself should have been the 'Jones' as it seems that is what a generation of camera users have been duped, and held to ransom, into keeping up with.

This is my opinion of what has transpired. Red have still created a good product albeit through non entirely transparent tactics.

M

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Steve, thanks for the time you give to this thread, i really appreciate, but let's be realistic, we are not asking for a way to make our Red one fly by themselves with invisible wings, we are asking for something "logical".

Actually, now that you mention it, I kind of want that feature. Might be better than a Movi.

Again, let's be honest, the third party brand limitation was purely marketing, and i can understand that, but we are close to 2014, and what was "marketingly valid" is no more logic, because like you said, the Red one mx is an EOL camera!

Actually, I'm not sure about that. How their data is written to the card comes into play. I do believe there were cards on the market back when CF was more common that were not suitable for the job. Red decided to not take a risk that some cards would work, others might not. How that affects where we are in 2014, only Red has that answer, which is why you are asking and which is why I understand why you are asking it.

And if they were so "worried" about our case, why let us use other Cf card brand on 2k mode? It's purely marketing, and like i said before, i can understand such a policy (even if i don't approve).
We are asking for something to be "REMOVED", A LIMITATION TO BE DELETED, and not for something to be made! It's much more easy to destroy than to build, and in our case, that's all we want!! This limitation does not make sense anymore, even the blackmagic pocket is capable of more with its Sd cards, seriously!

I believe most of the high end CF cards RED tested back in the days when CF was the format of choice were able to reliably handle 2K resolution. Hence there was less risk for them. As someone who owns the BMPCC and a Red I can tell you that the pocket cam has very specific needs in terms of the speeds on the SD card and really there is only one card I trust with RAW on that camera and it's the Sandisk 64GB 95MB/s card. Even with Prores recording those are the cards I stick with. I know they work and there is no mystery going into a shoot.

Ow, about the fact that we are now at the 4th generation Red camera, let's dont forget that the Red one has the Mx sensor, just like the Last Red camera (the real dragon sensor doesn't exist yet (only few people have it, and more than that, it's not the final version, we all wait to see what the new color science is capable of, so i don't take it into account)..

I would counter that despite the Red One and Epic having the same MX sensor inside that the newer processing hardware and tuning is what sets Epic apart from Red One, along with of course being able to take advantage of the 5K capabilities. Dragon is out there shooting on productions and although it's still in development, the camera is indeed a new generation and it does exist.

Again, just remove this Damn Limitation, and let us create as comfortably as our time supposes, because i really feel like you don't respect us..

At this point, I don't see why they wouldn't unless they have a very good reason for not doing it. Which leads me to think they have a very good reason for not doing it. From a business perspective, I suppose they are still selling the 16GB cards, so one could make the argument that they have some incentive to not remove that limitation but I'm not sure I would buy that argument. That ship has sailed in my opinion. I think they are doing the 16GB cards as a courtesy to Red One owners who may still need them. I can't imagine they are flying off the shelves and therefore it may have more to do with liability and certification. Honestly, I think anything you or I come up with is purely conjecture as only the folks at Red will have the true answer to their decision. I'd like to believe that if they felt third party options would help you guys out and they could remove the limitation without it being a liability for them, they would do it.

 

[Robert Hart]

If the end could justify the means cost-beneficially, RED would likely have already done it. For like reasons, the RED M/MX platform would have been hacked already to accept non-authorised CF cards or alternative recording devices via non-authorised adaptors. RED's vigorous protection of its intellectual property has probably scared most aspiring players away.

Impossible is sometimes only a reflection upon the will or not to make something happen. This is exampled by third-party innovations like hard drive adaptors and MxM (Sony XDCAM-EX) and Magic Lantern (Canon DSLR.). Interestingly, Sony and Canon may not have liked these third-party innovations and have likely locked up their subsequent firmware developments in new products very tight. Tellingly however, neither fought against the third-party developers although obviously warranties must be and are void. I understand Sony even enabled alternative recording methods via firmware updates it wrote for the XDCAM-EX1/3 platform.

My imagining is that as EOL for the RED ONE begins to bite, the cameras may end up offshore in regions where patents cannot effectively be enforced. Someone may reverse-engineer a feature-stripped OS, port it as an open Linux SDK and many little slaves will then beaver away at enabling alternative recording methods and re-enabling the more useful items in the feature set. Then again, the burgeoning availability of alternative and affordable 35mm sensor cameras may render this attraction unsustainable for hackers.

Once emboldened, hacking the Scarlets could be next. Best for RED to head this possibility off at the pass by giving way a little by "with caveat - user beware" non-contesting of alternative third-party RED ONE peripherals.

That said, one must acknowledge that RED is not an inexhaustable mine of financial resource and has to live within its means. Throwing money away on testing and certifying what can never be more than a limited capacity data storing technology may be pointless waste. It has been an interesting premise to contemplate. Unsellable RED ONEs may more likely go home from the shop to stay within owner families for the kids to play with and learn on.

 

[Hank Braxtan]

I'm doing a prep in a couple days with a RED ONE MX. I have a couple of these new 32 GB Sandisks that I picked up just to see if they'll work in the camera. I'll post results next week.

 

[Mendes Nabil]

To let the red one firmware be open source would be a huge news, i really don't think that they will let that happen..
Here is what they say under the last red one built:

• Non-speed verified CF cards are limited to 2K record resolution.

What does that "exactly" mean for you guys? That some Cf cards has been verified?

@Hank, great initiative, i can't wait for your review, let's hope that it works just fine, or let make this happen by ourselves as they don't consider us anymore ..

 

[Joe D'Arcy]

Seriously Red? It's been more than 2 weeks, what about the answer you were supposed to give us? I come from a professional shooting and, damn, don't make me repeat what we all said before, "SHOOTING WITH A 16GB CARD IS UNACCEPTABLE IN EARLY 2014", a lot of shoot were cut before the end because of this DAMN LIMITATION!

I saw on the firmware specification (the last red one build) that "other CF brand are limited to 2k", so "shooting with other Cf cards" is possible.. Damn, i feel like you don't respect us because the dragon sensor is coming and people like us, with our "OLD RED ONE MX" we are so "Kitsch and has been like we say in french"..

Really? Is that what you think about us?

Because if it's the case, it is really really sad, the Red one Mx is the camera that made who you are today, just don't forget that, and people like us are just making the story continue..

Hi Mendes,

I would also like to purchase larger CF cards for the Red. However, I can't imagine Red responding positively to posts that attack and badger.

Red doesn't owe you or anyone of us anything. What is 'unacceptable to you' is just 'life' to someone else.

Joe

 

[Troy Bakewell]

I no longer own a RED One but I thought I'd chime in.

First off, RED is basically giving away 16GB CF cards if you buy them with a RedStation Base and CF reader. Check out the store. 4 x 16GB CF cards with the RedStation Base and CF Card Reader for the same price as the two RED Station units alone. So I'm sure that their motivation is not about protecting CF card sales.

I agree with Steve that used SSD's are the way to go. I have to think that RED will make the SSD module for RED Ones again. I just can't see them turning their backs on the newer RED customers who are buying used R1's. The original RedMags are only going to get cheaper and cheaper.

I also don't expect that they will spend a lot of time "dinking" around with supporting third party CF cards. It's just not worth the hit on the brand to risk it. I can fully appreciate why they have a strick policy on media. But who knows.

The RED One is an amazing value right now. It's such an amazing time to be a filmmaker right now. The fact that a R1MX can be had for so cheap is a huge part of that IMO. What's crazy is I bet they are about to get even more affordable once Dragons are commonplace.

So RED, make some more SSD modules please. R1MX owners, just bite the bullet and switch to REDMags. You can justify the expense by realizing what a steal of a deal your camera purchase was.



Just my $0.02

 

[Samir Patel]

RED IS working on a new batch of SSD modules. People just don't pay attention.

Hi Stephen & Jason,

I addressed it on another thread but we are working on it. Should have them available to ship by the first week of January.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...m-with-upward-compatability-of-Red-One-camera

Regards,

Keegan

 

[Mendes Nabil]

The really old 8gb Lexar card was compatible with the Red one, how can new generation of Cf cards be incompatible? It's only about a firmware restriction, unlock this Red, please, we all ask for that..

Jarred, what about your answer? You talked about some tests, what about the results (certainly positifs)?

Can someone tell me what is the exact model of Lexar 8gb card? I will contact Lexar too, they can certainly do something for us...

 

[Steve Sherrick]

The really old 8gb Lexar card was compatible with the Red one, how can new generation of Cf cards be incompatible? It's only about a firmware restriction, unlock this Red, please, we all ask for that..

Jarred, what about your answer? You talked about some tests, what about the results (certainly positifs)?

Can someone tell me what is the exact model of Lexar 8gb card? I will contact Lexar too, they can certainly do something for us...

Lexar made the 8GB cards Red used.

 

[Mendes Nabil]

Hello all! And hello the Red Team! How are you?

We are in february now, is there any news about "tests" that have been made with the Sandisk Cf card?

Let us know, it would be great, the Red drive failed me several times recently, i'm afraid to use my red one mx in a professional project again, and the coast for the SSD solution is really expensive for someone who lives in Europe (Taxes + shipment, the price is about 4000$ for a SSd module + 128gb SSd, price of a brand new battle tested camera)..

We need this Cf solution, again, please, make it possible so Cf users will be able to use their camera safely.. I love my Red one Mx and i bought it to shoot my short and my feature film, but with what happened recently, i almost regret my purchase..

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Hello all! And hello the Red Team! How are you?

We are in february now, is there any news about "tests" that have been made with the Sandisk Cf card?

Let us know, it would be great, the Red drive failed me several times recently, i'm afraid to use my red one mx in a professional project again, and the coast for the SSD solution is really expensive for someone who lives in Europe (Taxes + shipment, the price is about 4000$ for a SSd module + 128gb SSd, price of a brand new battle tested camera)..

We need this Cf solution, again, please, make it possible so Cf users will be able to use their camera safely.. I love my Red one Mx and i bought it to shoot my short and my feature film, but with what happened recently, i almost regret my purchase..

$4000? That is pretty steep. And more likely than not you'll need more than 1 SSD as it would be dangerous to do any shoot relying on one piece of media. If something goes wrong with it you need a backup (umless your Red drives are the backup).

If there is a way to get this into your country cheaper I'd still say the SSD is the way to go. And you can find them on the used market now.

 

[nicolas de chateau thierry]

256 g from sandisk ... please

 

[Mendes Nabil]

Any news guys? I know every eyes are on Dragon now, but, can we hope for a firmware update with a new Cf compatibility? let us know please..

 

[Jess Gill]

What's the max fps that red drives are able to do with red one mx sensor ?? Just trying to guage performance differences between cf cards and using red drives ??

 

[ericyoung]

What's the max fps that red drives are able to do with red one mx sensor ?? Just trying to guage performance differences between cf cards and using red drives ??

There's a chart in the Red One Operation Guide of FPS vs Resolution vs Redcode Compression vs Media Type.