Everything changes... IMPORTANT post.

[CocoBermudez]

PM me your address and you can have my 640GB Red drives that I paid $1200 and waited 6 months for, for free.

PM me and you can have a cool Red drive paper weight. You are welcome!

Heck...if he doesn't want it and you're giving it for free...I'll take it for my RED ONE... . I'll even send you a cool retro soccer shirt as a thank you from one of my other failed businesses....I should have stuck to filmmaking rather than clothing manufacturing...... Geez...what was I thinking....

 

[Scott Summers]

Heck...if he doesn't want it and you're giving it for free...I'll take it for my RED ONE... . I'll even send you a cool retro soccer shirt as a thank you from one of my other failed businesses....I should have stuck to filmmaking rather than clothing manufacturing...... Geez...what was I thinking....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, I'm loving hanging out in this thread as we wait for news. It's very reminiscent of when we waited for the Dragon announcement.

 

[Ces Peynetti]

Where can we see these cool retro soccer shirts?

 

[Michael Brennan]

I read marketing materials, attended industry events, studied white-papers, watched online presentations... and EVERY SINGLE ONE SAID THAT 4K WAS OVER-KILL BECAUSE THE HUMAN EYE COULD ONLY RESOLVE 2K/1080P IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF VIEWING ENVIRONMENTS. So to now claim that these same industry players were aiming for 8K all along is nonsensical. They believed the human eye could not resolve 4K, but that it could resolve 8K? WTF? Certainly they know 8 > 4.

Its not nonsensical to relate historical fact.
Millions of $$ spent on developing Super High Vision and UltraHD by NHK and BBC and others.

You are mistaken in your above argument as you suppose that viewing environments for ultraHD are the same for HD. What may be wasted resolution on a 40 inch screen from three meters is not wasted on a 120 inch screen.

And sure they were anti 4k as it didnt fit into long term plans.


Mike Brennan
DP
Melbourne

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Great clip Evan, i especially love Coppola's words ... "the so called professionalism about movies will be destroyed ... forever ... you know ... at it will really be a art form". Go RED !

That is not a good thing. That means all of us working for free, needing a day job. To applaud this does not make sense.

That said, it never happened. When was the last time you went to the theater ( aside from maybe 3 gimmick films in the past 20 years) and what was playing there was created by untrained amateurs? Turn on your television: see nothing made by untrained amateurs? I thought so.

There is a real reason why some DPs make $10 000 a day. They can do things and have skills the average person cannot. Lots of people have Epics or can rent them - it doesn't mean hardly any of them do what David Mullen does.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Lowering the prices is all good and what not, but do you see ARRI lowering the price of the Alexa... nope. Why is that? Because they are not going to play hardball with Canon, a company hardly even worth it. Therefore the Alexa will continue to be seen as the superior product. The rental value of the Alexa will continue to be upheld and the owners will continue to be satisfied. But RED has taken the other road, at of course the expense of the product owners. Customer loyalty is getting thrown out the window here, and people on this forum at least are shouting for joy at the fact. They just can't wait to get their hands on a cheaper RED product. Something more affordable, yes I have been waiting on this day, is what they are saying. Whereas the current owners are getting the shaft with investment quality and rental rates. I will still buy RED products but I will never again buy another camera body from them. I am not personally attacking any of you, so please refrain from personally attacking me, as I'm sure your already thinking about as you read this.

There are others out there who agree with you. Me included. Although i'd say let's first wait and see what happens before drawing a final conclusion.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

No, customer loyalty has nothing to do with this thread and especially this price cut. No matter how hard you guys try to spin it about owner loyalty.... its not, other than Jim taking the time to loyally explain they need to make a BUSINESS shift and were kind enough to give both a heads up, an explanation as to why and a place to vent frustration.

 

[Gary Stone]

That is not a good thing. That means all of us working for free, needing a day job. To applaud this does not make sense.

That said, it never happened. When was the last time you went to the theater ( aside from maybe 3 gimmick films in the past 20 years) and what was playing there was created by untrained amateurs? Turn on your television: see nothing made by untrained amateurs? I thought so.

There is a real reason why some DPs make $10 000 a day. They can do things and have skills the average person cannot. Lots of people have Epics or can rent them - it doesn't mean hardly any of them do what David Mullen does.

Your mindset is the reason movies like "Spider-Man 3" cost $250 million dollars and are less fun to watch than pooping a knife. Technically amazing, yes. But, an outright chore to sit through.

 

[Nick Morrison]

There is a real reason why some DPs make $10 000 a day. They can do things and have skills the average person cannot. Lots of people have Epics or can rent them - it doesn't mean hardly any of them do what David Mullen does.

This is true. Art and craft are what separate the wheat from the chaff. A camera (and it's price) have little to do with it.

 

[Scott Summers]

Just thought of something. 6k for 6k Dragon. (If the price reduction is any more than $6000, you'd be giving away Dragon upgrades and then some).

 

[Scott Summers]

That is not a good thing. That means all of us working for free, needing a day job. To applaud this does not make sense.

That said, it never happened. When was the last time you went to the theater ( aside from maybe 3 gimmick films in the past 20 years) and what was playing there was created by untrained amateurs? Turn on your television: see nothing made by untrained amateurs? I thought so.

There is a real reason why some DPs make $10 000 a day. They can do things and have skills the average person cannot. Lots of people have Epics or can rent them - it doesn't mean hardly any of them do what David Mullen does.

It doesn't mean people will be working for free as an exact result. It may mean that some work for free for some time, but that's been the case for countless numbers of films. It also doesn't mean you're going to be out of work if you're good. EVERYONE in the world can get their hands on a pencil, and a piece of paper, that doesn't mean everyone in the world is a literary genius capable of writing masterpiece novels; or even tacky 'romance' novels for that matter.

Having tools that can create art, and having the artistic ability to create art, have always been and always will be two very different things.

 

[Peter Moretti]

Its not nonsensical to relate historical fact.
Millions of $$ spent on developing Super High Vision and UltraHD by NHK and BBC and others.

You are mistaken in your above argument as you suppose that viewing environments for ultraHD are the same for HD. What may be wasted resolution on a 40 inch screen from three meters is not wasted on a 120 inch screen.

And sure they were anti 4k as it didnt fit into long term plans.


Mike Brennan
DP
Melbourne

Michael, most of the "2K is enough" arguements were based on movie theatre seating, not home theatres.

That there has been work on the 8K UHD spec is indeed a historical fact. It's also a fact that there has been work on the 4K QHD spec... and there is still probably no good way to broadcast either. So sure, there has been work on UHD, just like I can go to an auto show with technologies that will never make their way to the road. And to use the UHD spec as a basis to conclude Sony and Arri were holding off on 4K cameras b/c they were waiting for a rather soon adopting of 8K is a stretch.

 

[Peer Landa]

Stuff we've payed premium prices and waited for months on to arrive, only a couple of years ago, is literally worthless.

Frankly, when reading Rob's and Milan's many posts, I must say it makes me wonder how & why they (who both so arrogantly claim being super "professional" and "knowledgeable" about the film industry) become so inanely bitter about a price decrease. How silly.


If they indeed had this claimed business experience, they should've also anticipated such a move by RED. Again, how silly can you get.

(And -- please Milan -- I'm too old to read all your infantile profanity laced PM's)


-- peer

 

[Milan Spasic]

Heck...if he doesn't want it and you're giving it for free...I'll take it for my RED ONE... . I'll even send you a cool retro soccer shirt as a thank you from one of my other failed businesses....I should have stuck to filmmaking rather than clothing manufacturing...... Geez...what was I thinking....

Coco, pm me your snail mail addy and you've got it. Heck, I'll throw the $120 red drive cable in for free. You totally deserve it. Loved your short.

I'd certainly rather give it to a true artist than a Silicon Valley hobby cinematographer.

 

[Milan Spasic]

Milan, I went and looked at your website. Your work looks very very good. I can't say for for sure, but I would think it got better as you went along. If I were you, I would recognize that as money well spent.

Thanks Gary, I'm sure going along. What other choice do I have? Just voicing my opinion is all.

I have no complaints about the camera system itself at all, otherwise I wouldn't be $120k deep into it.

 

[Peer Landa]

I hope mommy and daddy agreed to pay for your newly priced Epic. Good luck kid and welcome to the business!

Little do you know.

-- peer

 

[Rob Ruffo]

It doesn't mean people will be working for free as an exact result. It may mean that some work for free for some time, but that's been the case for countless numbers of films. It also doesn't mean you're going to be out of work if you're good. EVERYONE in the world can get their hands on a pencil, and a piece of paper, that doesn't mean everyone in the world is a literary genius capable of writing masterpiece novels; or even tacky 'romance' novels for that matter.

Having tools that can create art, and having the artistic ability to create art, have always been and always will be two very different things.

You are agreeing with me. That said, you still need lights, locations, dollies, Steadicams... You need actors who can act and very importantly a script that si not a rough first draft. These things take time and money to be any good, no matter how much your camera costs.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Your mindset is the reason movies like "Spider-Man 3" cost $250 million dollars and are less fun to watch than pooping a knife. Technically amazing, yes. But, an outright chore to sit through.

Millions and millions of moviegoers disagree with you.

 

[Martin Weiss]

Please do not get personal. I am really tired of it, and just issued the first temporary ban.

 

[Freya]

Michael, most of the "2K is enough" arguements were based on movie theatre seating, not home theatres.

That there has been work on the 8K UHD spec is indeed a historical fact. It's also a fact that there has been work on the 4K QHD spec... and there is still probably no good way to broadcast either. So sure, there has been work on UHD, just like I can go to an auto show and technologies that will never make its way to the road. And to use the UHD spec as a basis to conclude Sony and Arri were holding off on 4K cameras b/c they were waiting for a rather soon adopting of 8K is a stretch.

My understanding is that there is now a ratified standard for 8k UHD. I'm also under the impression that the BBC made test broadcasts of UHD during the olympics (in fact I remember there were cinema screenings of this in a number of citys here in the UK). I think there are also test broadcasts in Japan right now. I'm a bit busy right now and can't check all my facts on this, so please feel free to do so, I could have some finer points wrong or be a bit off base but I think that 8k is very much on its way.

Havn't read the entire thread so I'm not sure how this relates to anything in context, but I very much believe we are heading for an 8k future (which will be a good thing in a lot of ways I think!)

love

Freya