Everything changes... IMPORTANT post.

[Jeff Coatney]

You guys just murdered half your competitors with this bombshell. I love it when you strike your colors like this. Anybody seeking to compete really has to bring passion to bear on the problem(s)- and that ain't cheap. Anyone whining about this is taking the narrow, short-term view. The ROI on a camera lies in the images it makes, not the metal and silicon.

 

[Christian Simpson]

Thank you RED for what you're doing. It is unheard of for a company to pass on their savings to the customer. I purchased a Scarlet on Friday along with a ton of accessories and I am so happy to be a member of the RED family and am grateful for what your company has done for me. RED has had a crucial role in my progression as a film maker.

Several years ago a very wealthy friend bought a RED one and had no idea how to use it. He asked me to help him shoot things for him which I jumped at the chance to do. I owned a Panasonic HVX at the time and was doing weddings and BS like that. I learned the camera and the workflow and at the time was one of the few people around that had this skill. I wasn't a great DP or anything but I knew the camera and had access to it. This led to me working on a lot of jobs and meeting tons of professional people that helped me learn and grow as an artist. RED opened up a whole new world to me. I came to know that I love cinematography and I began to study it seriously and to work very hard at it and now 5 years later I am a much better artist. I'd like to think RED had a little to do with that

Thank you RED for being who you are and for having such a profound impact on the lives of so many.

 

[Joachim Hoge]

We got our M last summer, and it has been working quite steadily since. I'm just very happy with the purchase, thinking if we would have waited for a price drop, we would have missed out on a year and a half of 5K. I do understand people who bought it more recently feel a little apprehensive though.
Personally I would have preferred lower price on accessories instead ;-)

 

[Humberto Rivera]

I think we’re only days from when Red makes it pronouncements of the “New Reduce Prices” they will be what they will BE, and then we move-on, just a few more days. Meanwhile I thought some of you might find this article in the NY Times interesting. It’s about Robert Zemeckis making of “Flight” with “Denzel Washington” as an Airline Pilot with a few problems of its own.

Interestingly, not once was the Red Epic Camera was mentioned, not even once! http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/m...s-to-live-action-movies-with-flight.html?_r=1 Interesting!

Humberto Rivera

 

[Jon MIchael Puntervold]

I have the feeling the price decrease will be reasonable, and not decimate us. Here's hoping.

I hope you are right. For some of us, investing in the Epic were done with long term perspective in mind, naively thinking that it was a good move to buy the Epic before the first price increase and prepare for the Epic Dragon. Thinking that the Epic life would be similar to the life of Red One...

 

[Liana]

Can I be one to say "Screw the rental companies". Since when was RED's goal to create rentable cameras. Never. They're making cameras that people can buy and own. You shouldn't have to rent a camera, that's the whole idea. And since when did anyone but a fool judge the quality of a product based solely on its price, especially one as subjective as a video camera. RED has always been about getting quality camera's into the hands of as many people as possible. Ironically, RED is about taking the camera out of the equation, so content creators can focus on the end goal. They're not about exclusivity and status, and I think this thread proves that.

Hear, hear.

All this moaning about price reduction is flabbergasting.

You give a starving beggar some food, and he throws it back at you and complains you did not put enough salt to his taste. I am certain that if tomorrow Red announced they have found a cure for cancer, a certain 'class' of individual here would whine how Red developed the cure just to destroy the livelihood of all the existing cancer treatment providers.

The amazing thing is, the people most passionately campaigning against any price reduction are the ones who would not even be in their precious rental business if it was not for Red and its products in the first place! Red made them.

Their attitude is doubly appalling: "I got mine, but now close the doors. I don't want anyone else to compete and prosper."

This is the same close-minded attitude that caught Sony, Alexa et al napping and made Red-volution possible. And some people want Red to emulate this behavior?

Unreal.

 

[Emanuel A.]

Thank you RED for what you're doing. It is unheard of for a company to pass on their savings to the customer. I purchased a Scarlet on Friday along with a ton of accessories and I am so happy to be a member of the RED family and am grateful for what your company has done for me. RED has had a crucial role in my progression as a film maker.

Several years ago a very wealthy friend bought a RED one and had no idea how to use it. He asked me to help him shoot things for him which I jumped at the chance to do. I owned a Panasonic HVX at the time and was doing weddings and BS like that. I learned the camera and the workflow and at the time was one of the few people around that had this skill. I wasn't a great DP or anything but I knew the camera and had access to it. This led to me working on a lot of jobs and meeting tons of professional people that helped me learn and grow as an artist. RED opened up a whole new world to me. I came to know that I love cinematography and I began to study it seriously and to work very hard at it and now 5 years later I am a much better artist. I'd like to think RED had a little to do with that

Thank you RED for being who you are and for having such a profound impact on the lives of so many.

Stick it as message to one or another (I am not even able to write 'others' ; ) 'cause we can not fulfill one single hand with them )

...don't be selfish or at least, don't show it on these boards (that's not the right place and RED needs to focus on many rather than an elitist couple of them only focused on their own interest.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Thinking about this some more... I have a suggestion for RED. Take some of the profits from the EPIC savings, and apply it to lower costs on jumping into the RED ecosystem, viz. accessories, media, Meizler module etc. There's no reason that the cost savings on a portion of the RED product portfolio needs to be passed on to buyers of just that one portion. It can be applied across the lineup, which will help adoption even more.

That said, if there's a feeling the competition is ready to undercut etc., that may be a driver for different decision making, but I have no insights/info on that front. RED knows better.

edit: I say this after having exclusively invested in the generally expensive RED accessories. I see this as it could really help all of the RED ecosystem thrive.

 

[Ivan Kovax]

Many on this forum seem to forget that the RED One cost 17K... When the RED One was released at that price point it was a game changer. Are we seriously that myopic on this forum?

Now when an Epic brain drops from 35K to... whatever... this is a betrayal? It is competition. Survival. Evolution. It is SMART.

Get over it. Adapt your business and rental structures to a changing market. The world moves ahead and it is RED's prerogative to adjust their prices as they see fit. Be happy that they are smart enough to understand the phrase "healthy competition" in every which way which will only help develop better products ahead of the curve.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I have a great tip for anyone feeling that buying high end technology is hurting... just pay and don't look back, look at what you got.
I have spent years trying to build up computers and cameras so that I can get the best quality for the lowest buck, but in the end I always get disapointed with what I got when I pay less. Find the thing that will do what you need and buy it. If you are a professional it will pay for itself and be a great investment. If you buy an Epic for 34k, and they now lower it to let's say 25k you will only "loose" money if your Epic was on a shelf collecting dust. If you actually used it all the time, both earning money with it and for personal use, remember that you got a tool that produce great images, something that preserve your art and work for the future in a much better way then let's say Alexa or a DSLR. So you got this great tool that cost a lot of money and you get pissed off on the company that made it because they lowered the price on the same camera?

I am not buying something that cost over 10k, over that is in my view something that will drop so much in price during coming years that it will be a great loss of funds for me. But that is also because I'm not a full production company, I do not produce stuff every day, I, at the moment do it when I can and it is no way near the amount I need to be able to pay off the camera. I focus more on the post production side at the moment, where technology (like Resolve and Premiere/After effects) is dropping in price so much that I can actually do high end work for under 10k.

But if I find myself in need of a high end camera like Epic and I know it will be a great investment, then I will pay the price and I will not look back. What would be the reason? I need it so I buy it. If they lower the price, then darn... well, at least I can get a new one more easily from my insurrence company.

We are not consumers, we do not shopping-spree stuff and need more and more and more, we do not shop til we drop. We are professionals, our investments pay for themselves and anyone complaining is I think not getting enough work done.

I'm hoping for a pricedrop for Scarlet as well. If they end up at a similar point as the BT Scarlet then I might be able to kick start that production part of my company once and for all. Right now, I'm trying to stay on the ground and see things for what they are, when they are and reality is what reality is. Things drop in price... look, just look at what you have in your hands for 34k, just look at what you can do with it and just look back a few years. Where were you back then? Did you have dreams that "would never become reality"? Well not anymore, so stop complaining and be happy with a company that enabled so many to do what they only dreamed of a few years back.

I know Red changed my career path to the better, so I rather thank them then complain about them.

 

[Tom Lowe]

I'm so sick of crybabies. :banghead:

For what it's worth, I love what you guys are doing, Jim. Keep it up!

 

[Martin Weiss]

I'm so sick of crybabies.

Indeed.

From 2008:

 

[Elsie N]

Indeed.

From 2008:

Martin, where DO you get all these images on a moments notice! '-)

 

[George A.]

A truly amazing camera for a lower price...

And people are complaining?! Really? Really?!?!... Reading some replies in this thread made me cringe.

Jarred, Jim - ignore. Thanks for looking out for your customers. The vast majority of us appreciate everything you do - including the upcoming price decrease, which is absolutely great.

George

P.S. Great products for low prices - I thought this is a dream for any consumer out there. Some people baffle me. Jarred - let's increase the EPIC price to $100,000 I'm lucky - I already own one, which I bought for much cheaper. Let's stop other people from buying. Let's stop other people making great films on great cameras. Why? Simple. I want to keep the daily rate for my rentals the same.

BS guys, and you know it. You are really something.

 

[Dan Kanes]

That is a gross, but awesome halloween costume.

 

[Michael Markowski]

I was seriously considering getting an Epic at the end of last year, but ended up getting a Scarlet. I absolutely LOVE the camera, but I have to agree with the statement that the Scarlet is a gateway "drug" to getting an Epic. After seeing Jim's post 96fps post I just want the Epic even more. The fact that the price is coming down is great for all. Thanks again to all at Red for making these amazing cameras and for looking out for your customers.

-mike

 

[Tom Greenberg]

RED has changed my life for the better in so many ways...thank you, Jim and Jarred for staying true to your vision...we all benefit from your dedication. I am thrilled to be along for the ride!

 

[peter roehsler]

I also don´t get these complaints about rental rates. It´s a market controlled by demand and seems to move rather fast. Of course, the increasing number of owner/operators like myself is going to hurt rental houses as far as the basic camera is concerned. But, as Jarred (and others) wrote: the camera is just one item on the equipment list. People should get over the fact that `the camera´ is not the most expensive piece of gear any more. There are zooms, HS lenses, dollies & cranes, steadicams etc; that seems to be the legacy of the biggies like Panavision, Arri, Sony, but these days (and purchase prices) are gone, mostly thanks to RED. Product cycles have gone down from film camera days (every 5 years or so with a rental life of about twice that long) to 1.5-2 years due to digital development. Who I am I to complain that RED will meet these developments by offering upgrades to their cams?

 

[Andy Roberts]

Maybe someone already said this, but if more Epic's hit the streets and Epic becomes the de facto way to shoot, then I would think rentals and such would go up in quantity even if they take a slight hit in day rate... it's popularity will serve as marketing for rental companies. The amount of visual content and motion content needed in today's mobile communications environment is just exploding. I depend on rental revenue and I'm not nervous. If I'm nervous about anything affecting my income economics and the worldwide economy, it isn't Red's decision on Oct. 31 but rather America's decision on Nov. 6. I could make a political statement here and really derail this thread, but I won't.

 

[Emanuel A.]

I'm not nervous. If I'm nervous about anything affecting my income economics and the worldwide economy, it isn't Red's decision on Oct. 31 but rather America's decision on Nov. 6. I could make a political statement here and really derail this thread, but I won't.

You've just half-done it