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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC-X UPDATE

18-24 months ago Red published their projected coverage going up to double IMAX size. There was lots of talk as to whether all this was dreaming and/or physically possible (ie: development of a new, much wider lens system to cover the chip). However, and I am one of the least technical Reduser's out there, in postings regarding Leica's bit depth and what a big deal it is, I get the impression that the added bit depth could posssibly be modified to give you added immage width, allowing for 35FF and larger to be available using exisitng S35 lenses.

I'm the first to acknowledge my "impression" may be 100% wrong. Regardless, I'd love to hear from those left brain types out there on this issue. If the Leica bit depth is a function that allows for a larger Red chip to work, then that helps explain the teaming up of Red and Leica.
 
Justin O'Neill said:
Economy of scale may also mean it is cheaper for RED to make all of the cameras FF35 instead of producing a separate S35 sensor.
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I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case.

This is also why I think the best approach might be to design photosites for an optimal S35 "4k (+) resolved", and let the resolution of the full FF35 sensor lie were it may based on that.

Even if they shipped different sensor sizes, having identical photosites would sill give them (and us) some/most of the economies of scale benefits.
 
Scott Crawley said:
The Monstro family of processors will have a FF member, and Dragon is it. I don't expect there will be another Red FF Monstro sensor in addition to Dragon. In other words Dragon is the full frame Epic sensor. That is how I understand it.

I didn't think that there was to be an S35 Monstro. The name "Monstro", i thought, was to indicate larger sensor sizes.

Did someone say that Dragon was s35?
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I don't believe so.

With regard the "Monstro" family of chips, in the semiconductor industry, this is referred to as a "process", i.e.- the unique combination of chip design chemistry, fabrication steps, etc... In other words the design of each photosite is identical in termes of parts, they may simply differ in size and number. Thus, you may have multiple chips with different feature sets, yet be part of the same process family and therefore similar capabilites. Each new process brings a jump in base capability (i.e. 2 stops more sensitivitiy, etc...)

So it would appear that the initial Mysterium chip was the single sensor from the Mysterium fabrication process. The 5K chips in Epic and RedOne(masked to 4.5K) and the 3K chip in Scarlet are all part of the Mysterium-X process, they just aren't individually named.

Things seem to have changed a little going forward.... they decided to name the upgrade version of the chip (or the upgrade package).

It appears that Red Dragon is a specific implmentation of the Monstro process that will be available as an Epic upgrade.

Nothing I've seen indicates that this particular chip/program will be full-frame. I expect that another member of the Monstro family process will be the FF chip.

-Steve
 
Steven Caesare said:
in the semiconductor industry, this is referred to as a "process", i.e.- the unique combination of chip design chemistry, fabrication steps, etc... In other words the design of each photosite is identical in termes of parts, they may simply differ in size and number. Thus, you may have multiple chips with different feature sets, yet be part of the same process family and therefore similar capabilites. Each new process brings a jump in base capability (i.e. 2 stops more sensitivitiy, etc...)

So it would appear that the initial Mysterium chip was the single sensor from the Mysterium fabrication process. The 5K chips in Epic and RedOne(masked to 4.5K) and the 3K chip in Scarlet are all part of the Mysterium-X process, they just aren't individually named.
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Thanks. This makes a great deal of sense.

Steven Caesare said:
Things seem to have changed a little going forward.... they decided to name the upgrade version of the chip (or the upgrade package).

It appears that Red Dragon is a specific implmentation of the Monstro process that will be available as an Epic upgrade.
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Perhaps. We'll have to wait and see once they chose to show their latest hand to their competitors (an A-high Diamods/Hearts straight flush, whatever the name of that is.)

Steven Caesare said:
Nothing I've seen indicates that this particular chip/program will be full-frame. I expect that another member of the Monstro family process will be the FF chip.

-Steve
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I am not sure what was said that gave me this idea, but I have a very strong sense that Mostro/Dragon (the 3rd generation) will be the one that will first show up in FF35 flavor.

In fact, the only factors that would play in this are the processing power of EPIC (which is more than ready), and allowing people to ROI on the 5k M-X chip.
 
Greg, as I said, I'm not that technical. You're right that "bit" is not correct. Leica says that their lens has 8k resolution. If Red is 5k, that extra 3k seems to help somehow. I'm assuming, and perhaps incorrectly, that that may buy you additional width. I know BandPro says it buys you extra resolution.
 
Tim Duran said:
Greg, as I said, I'm not that technical. You're right that "bit" is not correct. Leica says that their lens has 8k resolution. If Red is 5k, that extra 3k seems to help somehow. I'm assuming, and perhaps incorrectly, that that may buy you additional width. I know BandPro says it buys you extra resolution.
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What matters with a lens is do you like the look - some of my favorite cine lenses, like old anamorphics, are less sharp, in terms of technical measurement, than a cheap piece of Sigma cr*p But they have special charm, and you can't tell that with numbers, nor do numbers often indicate the degree of breathing.
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
And AFAIK, it's not possible to shoehorn a FF35 sensor into the current EPIC body; Dragon is NOT an upgrade to FF35 for EPIC!
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I wouldn't make that assumption at all, but nor would I make any assumption about Dragon's size until RED says something official. And even if they have a plan for it today, look how much the Epic and Scarlet lines changed between their "announcement" in 2008 and today. Cosmetically, Epic actually looks fairly similar, but the specs have gotten a huge bump. Scarlet looks almost essentially like an Epic... a far cry from the "pocket soccer mom" cam they showed in the brochure. So I would hold tight from making statements like "Dragon IS this" or "Dragon is NOT this" because the reality is that we don't have that information and knowing RED, it's likely to change anyway. You weren't the only one making those statements; this is just a general post for everyone. RED will let us know when they are ready. :)

And I am super psyched for Epic-Xs to be rolling out next week... boo-yah!
 
About the roll out. Jim said the week of the 29th. Is that the begging of maufacturing, testing, QA etc. Or will we see Epics shipping next week???

I have a big shoot starting the 12th. Of Sept. I'm stage two, serial number in the 600s. (probably between 100 and 200 down the list) I'd love to get my Epic X just in time but I'm not sure thats realistic.
 
Mark Andersen said:
About the roll out. Jim said the week of the 29th. Is that the begging of maufacturing, testing, QA etc. Or will we see Epics shipping next week???
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I feel like the 29th will be the "We're ready to start assembly production" with the week after being "First batches are going out." From the sounds of things, they'll be pumping these cameras pretty quickly.
 
Labor Day weekend here in the U.S. on Sept. 3, 4th, and 5th, so shipping services will probably be on holiday. Wouldn't expect shipments of any consequence to happen until after September 5th.
 
Jonathan Stevenson said:
I feel like the 29th will be the "We're ready to start assembly production" with the week after being "First batches are going out." From the sounds of things, they'll be pumping these cameras pretty quickly.
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Brent confirmed shipping the week of the 29th just a few pages ago...

Originally Posted by Tim Whitcomb
EPIC-X commences shipping August 29th? You guys made a deadline you put out there! Congrats Jim and RED TEAM- Not digging on you at all
either I just think this trend will continue.. Have definitely noticed you are getting better at estimating shipping.
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Brent@RED said:
The week of Aug 29, yes.

BC
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Owners of other inferior cameras systems will suffer soon... ;-)
 
Any word on the body redesign?
 
I highly doubt any piece of electronics will ever become the "DC3" of... anything. Moore's law is just too rutheless. Now I guess I was still using a Palm Treo for limited applications a couple years ago but a "Red One" will be the size of a cell phone and weight 2oz for $1000 in less than a decade. It'll be silly to be using a RED One.

Just look at the size comparison between an Epic and a RED One. Higher framerates, higher resolution, half the size.
 
I'm guessing that what Brent meant was that the process was going to start August 29th. I'm guessing that none of you have sent in your money yet. By the time they send out formal notices, receive your money, verify good funds, put your order in line, add whatever accessories you want to add to your order, this camera isn't leaving the dock until September 6th at the absolute earliest (unless some of you have been given preference and have your money alreay in Red's bank. This is not unheard of with Red ie: rental houses and friends of Red). Of course a formal notice tomorrow and prompt payment could hit the 29th as a ship date. But don't hold your breath.
 
Tim... don't guess. Others may take it as fact.

Jim

Tim Duran said:
I'm guessing that what Brent meant was that the process was going to start August 29th. I'm guessing that none of you have sent in your money yet. By the time they send out formal notices, receive your money, verify good funds, put your order in line, add whatever accessories you want to add to your order, this camera isn't leaving the dock until September 6th at the absolute earliest (unless some of you have been given preference and have your money alreay in Red's bank. This is not unheard of with Red ie: rental houses and friends of Red). Of course a formal notice tomorrow and prompt payment could hit the 29th as a ship date. But don't hold your breath.
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