EPIC MX Highlight Rolloff thread....

[António Fagundes]

Ok, continuing from the post above, I found another frame grab of mine with a very similar degree of difficulty and very similar visually. This one was shot on film. As you will see the rolloff into clear sky is much smoother and pleasant, meaning, it just looks normal...

And I don't think quicktime compression is the problem, as these two frame grabs are much more ugly looking and compressed than the previous frame grab shot on the Red.

Just sayin

 

[David Battistella]

Antonio,

i am not into trashing.

I am into finding constructive ways to accomplish a shot.

That shot you posted looks a bit over exposed and there also seems to be some forground fill on the fence. Like with any high dr situation a 2 stop grad would have helped the sky exposure, maybe one less stop on the lens and then dig out the shadows a but in post.

There is no doubt your shot shows a hard blowout, was this in Europe? I find that low, hard, wide harsh light in Florence all the time, especially at this time of year. It's very challenging light and you have to fight it all the time.

A light lo con would probably help here as well.

That shot might have rolled off in that area a bit nicer in 35mm, but its a challenging light and angle for any camera, even my nikon d700.

David

 

[Brice Ansel]

Here is the first (of I am sure many way more excellent) examples of nice smooth EPIC rolloff.

I will share my exact setup, a lighting diagram and even an R3D in the spirit of trying to showoff how great the MX sensor already is.

David



Here is a simple little frame showing how nice EPIC can handle things, when you want wide latitude and smooth highlights.

This thread could be a good one, depend how it turn in term of discussion tone.
I have to say I'm feeling a bit like a donkey here, as I can't see what's wrong in David's highlights.
I can even see some hallation around the hot point.
Maybe I haven't understand what hallation is, and then forgive my ignorance guys.
As David I would be pleased to see some exemple of the perfect roll off even if the beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If you don't mind, here is a sample with the chanels cliped, can we talk about hallation there?

 

[David Battistella]

Just seeing your other two grabs.


I see the point you are trying to make.

We have to be a bit more careful with any digital camera. Underexposed a bit, locon and dig the image out of the blacks where you have a bit more room to play.

When a sensor pixel goes to white, that's it, you can never get it back, so you have to expose with that in mind. With film, we learned to let it go and it would be ok.

Still. It's something I want to control. I don't want RED doing it for me because there are times that kind of filtration doesn't work.

david

 

[António Fagundes]

If you don't mind, here is a sample with the chanels cliped, can we talk about hallation there?

This is absolutely stunning example of good blown out highlight and perfect rolloff! Was this on Red? Did you just shot it clean? Can you expand on how you did this shot? Would really appreciate your input. Although the more sensitive areas are hidden behind the tree, so I can't see how those highlights are behaving. But this is still a very good shot.

Just seeing your other two grabs.


I see the point you are trying to make.

We have to be a bit more careful with any digital camera. Underexposed a bit, locon and dig the image out of the blacks where you have a bit more room to play.

When a sensor pixel goes to white, that's it, you can never get it back, so you have to expose with that in mind. With film, we learned to let it go and it would be ok.

Still. It's something I want to control. I don't want RED doing it for me because there are times that kind of filtration doesn't work.

david

I know that digital behaves differently to extreme highlights than film. I'm fine with that. And I don't even want to bring up the argument that Red has surpassed film... I think it has, but not in all aspects... maybe this is one of those aspects.

But what I still don't understand is why you say that this is something that you want to control. What are the options of not letting a pixel go to white and not getting it back? Meaning, who needs that option? We should be able to just let it go to complete white and secure a decent rolloff.

Like in these two other examples of mine. Again using film.

I think this frame grab above is so well accomplished. You can even see the sun completely, no bleeding whatsoever. No artifacts, clear rolloff. And there's even detail in the character, as well as in the grapes, the colors are intact, etc...

Another example of extreme highlights and a very good rolloff.

All I would love to see is these same kind of lighting set ups done on the Red.

Again, if the picture posted above by Brice is on Red, I'm very impressed and would love to know more about it.

 

[António Fagundes]

Ok and this is another example but this time is digital. Roger Deakins shot this. I think it is also a very good example of rolloff. Although, as in Brice's frame grab, the most sensitive area (the sun) is hidden behind the buildings...

But there is plenty of harsh highlights everywhere on the roads, buildings, etc... and they are all 'intact' Maybe that is what Roger did here, like you said, underexposed and pulled it back in the grade... maybe?

 

[Brice Ansel]

This is absolutely stunning example of good blown out highlight and perfect rolloff! Was this on Red? Did you just shot it clean? Can you expand on how you did this shot? Would really appreciate your input. Although the more sensitive areas are hidden behind the tree, so I can't see how those highlights are behaving. But this is still a very good shot.



I know that digital behaves differently to extreme highlights than film. I'm fine with that. And I don't even want to bring up the argument that Red has surpassed film... I think it has, but not in all aspects... maybe this is one of those aspects.

But what I still don't understand is why you say that this is something that you want to control. What are the options of not letting a pixel go to white and not getting it back? Meaning, who needs that option? We should be able to just let it go to complete white and secure a decent rolloff.

Like in these two other examples of mine. Again using film.

I think this frame grab above is so well accomplished. You can even see the sun completely, no bleeding whatsoever. No artifacts, clear rolloff. And there's even detail in the character, as well as in the grapes, the colors are intact, etc...

Another example of extreme highlights and a very good rolloff.

All I would love to see is these same kind of lighting set ups done on the Red.

Again, if the picture posted above by Brice is on Red, I'm very impressed and would love to know more about it.

Yes Antonio it was shot on an Epic, and David could share with me how we have done it, cause we shot this together.
And obviously we cliped the channel on purpose to blow the highlights.
It was quiet simple, I think David droped out the lowcon for this specific one.
I didn't perform color corection. I just did export a quick tiff in RedcineX after reading that very good thread.
Just a basic curve Redlogfilm, a bit of contrast and sharpeness, no brightness. that's it.
I can share the R3D if you want to play with, so as the RMD.
By the way, I have much more hardcor highlight shots from that day.
B.

 

[António Fagundes]

Yes Antonio it was shot on an Epic, and David could share with me how we have done it, cause we shot this together.
And obviously we cliped the channel on purpose to blow the highlights.
It was quiet simple, I think David droped out the lowcon for this specific on.
I didn't perform color corection. I just did export a quick tiff in RedcineX after reading that very good thread.
Just a basic curve Redlogfilm, a bit of contrast and sharpeness, no brightness. that's it.
I can share the R3D if you want to play with, so as the RMD.
By the way, I have much more hardcor highlight shots from that day.
B.

Nice one! yes, if it is at all possible I would love to play with your R3D, I would be very appreciated. Maybe David could expand a little more on the F stop (if he remembers...) the ISO and that low contrast filter.

 

[Brice Ansel]

Nice one! yes, if it is at all possible I would love to play with your R3D, I would be very appreciated. Maybe David could expand a little more on the F stop (if he remembers...) the ISO and that low contrast filter.

F8 @ 800iso
By the way I exported the tiff at 500 iso + 0,500 Flut + HDRX at 100 ;-)
Give me a moment and I upload a R3D Frame for you to play with.
Cheers
B.

 

[António Fagundes]

F8 @ 800iso
By the way I exported the tiff at 500 iso + 0,500 Flut + HDRX at 100 ;-)
Give me a moment and I upload a R3D Frame for you to play with.
Cheers
B.

Thanks Brice!

 

[Brice Ansel]

A R3D frame to play with this shot

Password is rolloff
http://dl.free.fr/plhsMvmVt

Cheers
B.

 

[David Battistella]

Antonio,

Yes, we were doing some shots for an upcoming film that Brice is doing (which is a very interesting story).

Settings
Camera 800ISO
0.6 ND
1/8 Scheider Lo-con Locon 2000 (quite light)
F stop F8 or 5.6/8 split
Leica V2 19mm lens
5:1 compression

In the shot I posted in the first post.

320 ISO
F4
Leica 19mm lens
6:1 compression
NO ND
1/8th Schneider Locon 2000

Link to r3d CALLED ARCHIVE.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/smvhptemszf25gh/kkft4izBh2



David

 

[Juan Melara]

How do these look?

 

[Brice Ansel]

Antonio,

Yes, we were doing some shots for an upcoming film that Brice is doing (which is a very interesting story).

Settings
Camera 800ISO
0.6 ND
1/8 Scheider Lo-con Locon 2000 (quite light)
F stop F8 or 5.6/8 split
Leica V2 19mm lens
5:1 compression

In the shot I posted in the first post.

320 ISO
F4
Leica 19mm lens
6:1 compression
NO ND
1/8th Schneider Locon 2000

Link to r3d CALLED ARCHIVE.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/smvhptemszf25gh/kkft4izBh2



David

Thanks David for your words.
The compression was 7.1 and shutter 90 Degres.
B.

 

[David Battistella]

How do these look?

Really nice examples Juan!

David

 

[Brice Ansel]

Really nice examples Juan!

David

Yea and Ausies sun has a world wide reputation.

Wanted to come back on what Mr Mullen said about certain old optic capable of showing Halation.
The lense choices is a key factor when you want to determin what specific look or feel you want to achieve, it is not just about the camera you are using or the way you are using it.
In general I find that modern design lenses and coating tend to be more contrasty, and then need obviously more frequently filtrations and or diffusion in a strong highlights cituation.


Maybe this sample from a 60mm Lense isn't perfect, but it was shot with no filter of any kind.
I have the same focal lense in Leica and I know if I did use it on this frame without filtration I would have get much more contrast, no white blow and probably some trouble to get the look desired.

Old contax made in west Germany (Ctr=Click for bigger pic)

I'm surprised the word organic didn't poped up yet.
B.

 

[Martin Stevens]

Ok David, here's a shot we did on Red One MX. This is a very difficult shot for any camera. See the harsh rolloff as the sky fades into blue from the sun. All I want to know is how can I do this kind of shot without the clipping and the artifacts. I understand that I can use HDRx on the Epic. But are there any other options?

And please, if you don't see anything wrong with this frame grab, don't confront me by telling me I can't expose or grade or I'm not competent enough to shoot on Red whatever else you think of. I'm really trying my best here, if I start to get shit from people I will just leave the thread.

Hello Antonio,

I feel your pain, in that, I too would prefer to not have to deal with harsh highlight clipping such as in your example.

When I shoot with any Digital Camera I basically always protect my highlights and therefore I always expose
so that they are not clipped and harsh as in your example. Wouldn't you have liked the look of your scene better
if you had stopped down a stop or two (or three)?

Also, I basically always use some sort of Black Pro Mist filter etc. when I shoot digital, as this helps
the highlights not look so harsh.

The really good news is that with the Dragon Sensor, highlight clipping will be less of an issue.

Also, forgive my Saturday Morning grade of your image, that I did in photoshop for fun.

 

[Filip Orlandic]

After the low contrast filter debate in DRAGON - ITS THE REAL DEAL !!!! thread I decided to do a quick test. The test was done on Nikon D600.

Exposure, white balance and other in camera settings were the same. You can see how highlights rolloff with low contrast filters.

 

[David Battistella]

Yes,

It does not seem to be at the expense of resolution either, which is why I like them if you want to soften out the white edges. Still, your example shows how you can get the effect you want "to your personal taste" rather than if it was built into the Nikon OLFP.

David

 

[Martin Stevens]

Low Contrast 6 looks more like Film to me in this example.

Thanks for posting Filip.