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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Epic flare issue solution

Pardon my ignorance, but as I continue to wait for the Epic-X email, I haven't had a good look at the inside yet. Cannot the metal surfaces be coated with some anti-reflective coating during camera production? Seems like folks having to fool with this is excessive. I'm concerned that on strong camera moves it would jostle around and possibly scratch the OLPF.
 
That video link is not working on my MacBook Pro (with Firefox). I just get a garbled green screen to start with, and then just audio.

Stephen
 
This works better

This works better

If you guys haven't seen my solution yet here it is..

You can buy flock online for a few dollars.. I already tried doug's solution but the sticking the flock on the metal does the trick permanently.

All you have to do is remove the PL mount only. Cut a few strips and slide it down to the OLPF.

Easy


Costs about $12 a sheet that is a metre 12inches square. With that much you can do maybe 50 cameras or more!
 

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Adam Eden said:
If you guys haven't seen my solution yet here it is..

You can buy flock online for a few dollars.. I already tried doug's solution but the sticking the flock on the metal does the trick permanently.

All you have to do is remove the PL mount only. Cut a few strips and slide it down to the OLPF.

Easy


Costs about $12 a sheet that is a metre 12inches square. With that much you can do maybe 50 cameras or more!
Click to expand...

Jarred,


Can you confirm if this can also be an approved solution?

David
 
I'm sure Adam's solution works, but with my technique, if you want those flares back (some folks do) you can easily yank the foam and have them.

In other words, you just might not want a permanent flock.

Also I did send my video to Jarred for approval.

Well, you guys can make your choice, and whichever you choose, it will be right, because it is your choice.
 
Hey Doug... I am only having fun with you..

Both solutions work. I just find, my way is neater and I rent my camera to other DOP's so I don't want them touching the OLPF and putting things in and pulling things out in that area.
 
Both Doug's and my solution cost about $1. Not really a big deal, especially when some people "like" those shitty looking smears. Let the choice be the customers.

But i am sure both Doug and myself appreciate free beers (or a case) if you meet either one of us for the solutions. (and Mark P, and Michael Mayda for the flock supplier!)
 
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Adam,

Do you find your solution interferes (or might interfere) with the FFD of your mount or with the electronic contacts? While the thickness of the material is slight, it still could create a buffer or difference in the position of the mounting plate... Unless it was trimmed off closer to the actual sensor opening,

Wondering how well the adhesive-backed flocking will hold up in extreme temperatures... Hate for the adhesive to fail at -22F and have the flocking come loose behind the lens when we're racing down a mountain... Just sayin'

Also curious about Doug's solution...
 
Hi Jeff

As you can see in my pictures the flock squashes easily and is only about or or two millimetres thick, it doesn't interfere with anything.

I am in Australia and it is very hot over here so unless I am down the snow shooting (very rare) I couldn't answer.

I left some flock stuck to a piece of metal in the sun for hours and it didn't affect the adhesive . I will next week however stick some flock to a piece of metal and leave it in my freezer for a few days and let you know as i never thought of that.

The only reason I have so much over hang of flock is so it is easy to remove, and you don't have to be so exact when cutting the stuff.
 
Adam Eden said:
But i am sure both Doug and myself appreciate free beers (or a case) if you meet either one of us for the solutions. (and Mark P, and Michael Mayda for the flock supplier!)
Click to expand...

HA! Although I noticed you left it as "Mark P" leaving me to wonder if you're meaning you'll take beer from any and all those preceding posts from fellows named Mark, last name beginning with P, which is three by my count. Why no love for the "Mark T's" of the world? Have we stooped so low as to slight them? People, where has the love gone? :beer:
 
I would like to see RED offer a solution that combines the benefits of Adam's and Douglas' solution. It would be great to have a little insert that is lined with Adam's telescope material but slips into the sensor throat and is pinned into place by the lens mount. I've attached a rough drawing of what I mean.

The red represents the camera sensor. All of the gray should be made of the flocking material.
 

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David Battistella said:
Mark,

I hear you on this but I think you are asking for a difficult answer.

RED is addressing the issue sone customers are complaining about by having Doug creae a solution. Sone other customers have situations where they like the flare (flares are in right now it seems).

If you are asking RED to admit what you think is a giant problem, halt production of cameras, recall all the cameras to fix a shiny piece in the gate, I think that is a tall order right now.

Perhaps RED are aware and are using an interim solution until a certain serial, etc. no one knows but RED but I think they are moving prudently.

The simple answer to clients is: "it's no longer a problem, RED has an approved solution". If that solution isn't up to someone's standards that's really not their problem.

Could this have been "caught" earlier, sure. But we have no idea how complex this us to address, those material are probably carefully selected. The Alexa has the exact same problem but it shows up as a completely lisle con, milky picture.

Film is a bit different because it does not reflect the way a CMOS sensor does.

I'm nit here defending RED, just considering all points of view.

As a customer, I am satisfied because there us an approved solution. It's out in the open, people know it's there and they know how to adjust for it.

David
Click to expand...

Hi David,

While I agree that RED probably didn't catch this during development and will probably do good on this eventually (at least I hope so), I think they owe the RED USER community a post letting us all know where they stand on this issue and what their plan is to resolve it. Just say "Hey! Yup, we recognize the problem (obviously they do) and will take care of you guys. We're working on the details and the implementation plan, but we'll have a fix soon and will offer camera updates once we can manufacture the part and set up a line for installing it."

It can't be a very expensive fix on their part if the solution is so simple.

I'll probably get my EPIC X next week, and I'm totally stoked about it. But after shooting my first job with an EPIC M and having to fight the streak flare, and then working with a brand new EPICX yesterday and seeing the same problem, I know I'm going to encounter it again, and will have to continue dealing with it in the field until RED comes up with a solution. Sorry, but after seeing the video it only reinforces my concern about sticking a wad of stuff around the OLPF and hoping it doesn't come loose, screw up the surface or whatever. There is no way in hell that I would want to risk damaging my camera by doing this modification.

It's very clear now what the problem is. I just don't understand why Jim would approve what seems like a wonky fix (sorry no offense intended) when something more permanent and professional should be offered by the company manufacturing the camera.

And as Forest Gump said..."That's all I have to say about that..."

M
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Adam,

Do you find your solution interferes (or might interfere) with the FFD of your mount or with the electronic contacts? While the thickness of the material is slight, it still could create a buffer or difference in the position of the mounting plate... Unless it was trimmed off closer to the actual sensor opening,

Wondering how well the adhesive-backed flocking will hold up in extreme temperatures... Hate for the adhesive to fail at -22F and have the flocking come loose behind the lens when we're racing down a mountain... Just sayin'

Also curious about Doug's solution...
Click to expand...

I ran into the streak flare shooting sunset/sunrises for a project I was on a few weeks ago with my M. I bought some of the flocking material and it fixed the worst of the problem. I also was concerned with affecting FFD, so I carefully trimmed the flocking to only be inside the PL mount port opening. There is still an overhang which will make removal easier. And all visible surfaces of the brain in front of the sensor visible through the mount are flocked. I was shooting at a Napa vineyard yesterday in blazing heat, no problem. Vineyard sunrise crane shot: Zero streak flares.

Not sure about cold, as that's not a problem for me yet. But I would think it a simple matter to test before any important shoots with temp extremes.

The adhesive of the flocking material is quite tacky.

As far as Red coming up with a field-fix? I say give them a break. The camera rocks, and this is an relatively easy to manage problem for experienced pros. If they improve the design of the sensor opening when I get my Dragon upgrade I'll be ecstatic, until then I'm not stressing over it. I've got a fix, it works, done.
 
Just bought some flock. I don't see why it's a big deal for a user fix. I for sure see streaks on my X310. Don't like them so that's why I ordered flock. Cost me $10.. If anyone in LA wants a piece, hit me up in a week.
 
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