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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Enter the Dragon

Ivan Kovax said:
Peter,

Clearly I am not speaking on behalf of Red, but it would seem to be much easier, fairer and less resource-wasteful for all Scarlet users if it was a simply a matter of "when the order is ready", then you pay the difference and get a Dragon in one swift step rather than sending the Scarlet in now, getting an epic in exchange, then in 6 months sending an epic in then getting it upgraded. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but how Jarred worded it makes it rather clear that this is a trade in deal for Dragon, not an Epic X...

FWIW

Ivan
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Ivan, by the time Scarlets will be ready to trade-in for Dragon Epic it will be 2014, if not later...

They have just exposed on the the first "Frankie" frames on Dragon. it will be months before a they can even schedule production. Then there are the current Epic owners - who according to Jim are all in line in front of the Scarlets. So 2014 is a very optimistic guess...
From business perspective it will make more sense for RED to offer the trade-in to normal Epic first and then Dragon at a later stage - especially if they plan the pricing accordingly. Let's say the upgrade from Epic-MX to Epic-D is $7K for the sake of argument. And upgrade from Scarlet to Epic-D $20K (again for the sake of argument). So if they offered a $13K upgrade from Scarlet to Epic-MX - not only they will not loose any money, but they will actually make more. Why? More Scarlet owners could afford $13K upgrade to Epic-MX, then $20K upgrade to Epic-D. And - once they have the Epic-MX - they are more likely to make that extra money with it to get the $7K upgrade from Epic-MX to Epic-D...

It is a win-win scenario for both RED and the Scarlet owners...

Peter

EDIT: Also Ivan - you are ignoring one simple math thingy - any Scarlet owner who will be able to afford direct trade-in to Epic-D can most likely afford to buy the current Epic-MX outright. RED has nothing to lose and everything to gain by offering trade-in upgrade to Epic-MX in the meantime. And I find it interesting your use of the word "fairer". Didn't You get a full trade in value on your RED-ONE to get Your Epic? It was certainly offered to You by RED...
And its not like RED had any problems selling BT Scarlets recently when a large batch became available...
 
i want one!! But is it posible to get with the upgrade to Dragon a anohter less noise FAN , because it will generat more heat don't you think.And in our country we almost never dub, because there is no money and talent to handle it. So the silencer the camera is the better.
Best regards and Happy New Year Robert
 
Hi guys..
Wow, I have the audacity to sleep for a few hours and 10 more pages appear! incredible ...

Yeah, dead-end-product was a little harsh... What was correctly identified is that to me the purchasing of a Scarlet is a massive "upgrade" in itself. As a low-budget filmmaker the idea of shelling out a 'further' $10k+ to keep my Scarlet from being obsolete within a year is a daunting prospect and very unlikely to happen.

Just regular continued firmware upgrades and perhaps a little titbit or two as the new technology improves being added to the Scarlet is what I want. As someone so eloquently put, the Scarlet still shoots amazing movies... and thats what I want.

SK
 
Peter Majtan said:
Ivan, by the time Scarlets will be ready to trade-in for Dragon Epic it will be 2014, if not later...

They have just exposed on the the first "Frankie" frames on Dragon. it will be months before a they can even schedule production. Then there are the current Epic owners - who according to Jim are all in line in front of the Scarlets. So 2014 is a very optimistic guess...
From business perspective it will make more sense for RED to offer the trade-in to normal Epic first and then Dragon at a later stage - especially if they plan the pricing accordingly. Let's say the upgrade from Epic-MX to Epic-D is $7K for the sake of argument. And upgrade from Scarlet to Epic-D $20K (again for the sake of argument). So if they offered a $13K upgrade from Scarlet to Epic-MX - not only they will not loose any money, but they will actually make more. Why? More Scarlet owners could afford $13K upgrade to Epic-MX, then $20K upgrade to Epic-D. And - once they have the Epic-MX - they are more likely to make that extra money with it to get the $7K upgrade from Epic-MX to Epic-D...

It is a win-win scenario for both RED and the Scarlet owners...

Peter

EDIT: Also Ivan - you are ignoring one simple math thingy - any Scarlet owner who will be able to afford direct trade-in to Epic-D can most likely afford to buy the current Epic-MX outright. RED has nothing to lose and everything to gain by offering trade-in upgrade to Epic-MX in the meantime. And I find it interesting your use of the word "fairer". Didn't You get a full trade in value on your RED-ONE to get Your Epic? It was certainly offered to You by RED...
And its not like RED had any problems selling BT Scarlets recently when a large batch became available...
Click to expand...

Peter,

No I didn't trade my Red MX. I had stage 2. I think you are referring to stage 3.

In regards to the rest of your lengthy rant. I think you missed my point...
So let me rephrase:

Full scarlet trade in value minused from the price of Red Dragon seems to be what the post indicated.

If it is anything it will be similar to Stage 3- when the dragon camera/sensor is ready the client will be informed. Send in scarlet. Pay the difference. Pretty simple. And "fairness" was in reference to not creating an overly convoluted system for scarlet users to upgrade. Keeping it simple, efficient, I say. But whatever the case scarlet owners will find out soon enough and make any conjecture here irrelevant.

Relax, Peter. Relax :) don't stress!

Over and out...
 
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Simon Knight said:
What was correctly identified is that to me the purchasing of a Scarlet is a massive "upgrade" in itself. As a low-budget filmmaker the idea of shelling out a 'further' $10k+ to keep my Scarlet from being obsolete within a year is a daunting prospect and very unlikely to happen.
SK
Click to expand...

Scarlet is a fantastic camera. I think the Dragons sounds incredible but if you are money aware there maybe other things more importnat to invest. I'm a sensor geek but I force myself to think about things like Lights, sound recorders, actors, studio space, hiring people as well. And I can imagine that those buying a scarlet did it for budget reasons.
Myself I waited another year so I could get the Epic directly instead of Scarlet. Next payed assignement should hopefully pay of the beautiful Dragon but to be honest the Epic is well... Epic :D

/Andreas
 
Dmitry Burenok said:
....We are however.. going to be offering a trade-in program...

You gonna be kidding us, correct? Or you want other camera vendors to commit suicide? They didn't sale anything yet (NOTHING AT ALL, to be precise) and you already offering a trade in program for 4k cameras? No mercy for poor SONY and ARRI? Jarred, how dare you are?!
Click to expand...
LOL funniest post of the thread
 
Ivan Kovax said:
Peter,

No I didn't trade my Red MX. I had stage 2. I think you are referring to stage 3.

In regards to the rest of your lengthy rant. I think you missed my point...
So let me rephrase:

Full scarlet trade in value minused from the price of Red Dragon seems to be what the post indicated.

If it is anything it will be similar to Stage 3- when the dragon camera/sensor is ready the client will be informed. Send in scarlet. Pay the difference. Pretty simple. And "fairness" was in reference to not creating an overly convoluted system for scarlet users to upgrade. Keeping it simple, efficient, I say. But whatever the case scarlet owners will find out soon enough and make any conjecture here irrelevant.

Relax, Peter. Relax :) don't stress!

Over and out...
Click to expand...

Ivan - I am relaxed. Still enjoying my first vacation in years down in Kyushu with my son, wife and her family... ;o)
My point was that regardless of which "stage" you went for - you (and every other RED ONE owner) was offered that option...

I do completely understand what Jarred meant by the trade-in to Epic-D. All I am asking for to have a more "realistic" option available sooner, which would also make good business sense for RED and the Scarlet owners...

Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
Ivan - I am relaxed. Still enjoying my first vacation in years down in Kyushu with my son, wife and her family... ;o)
My point was that regardless of which "stage" you went for - you (and every other RED ONE owner) was offered that option...

I do completely understand what Jarred meant by the trade-in to Epic-D. All I am asking for to have a more "realistic" option available sooner, which would also make good business sense for RED and the Scarlet owners...

Peter
Click to expand...

Well, you quite often sound stressed in your posts, is all. Either that or you are out trying to prove some kind of point, which probably comes across as stressed to me. Shrug, anyway... that is irrelevant.

Well, not sure how much business sense it makes for Red, but it would certainly benefit some Scarlet owners jump up a bit to the front of the Scarlet line ahead by getting late epics.

Either way, I think Red will make the appropriate decision for the market as they see fit, whatever that may be. ANd all was good in the world ;) That's all I will say about it for now.

EDIT: As a side note. How is Kyushu this time of year? I was supposed to head down there actually, but ended up going to Hakuba instead.
 
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QUOTE: "somehow i think that will be a closed beta program... chiaroscuro. reveal and obscure (until it's ready to reveal)."

Closed. That is as it sensibly should be. The last thing any enterpise needs in its proving is a pushbike rider trying to wring out a new Ducati on the mountain track and the whole world coming upon the bits and pieces in the ravine. I guess I may see one soon enough to get envious over. There are two DoP's in my neighbourhood despite the fact that is the far end of the earth here.


( In jest. - You could of course keep your enemies closer. I drive an SI2K. Does that qualify? ).
 
Just seeing this thread now. The dragon graph is out of this world and I can't wait for samples. It will be curious to see if RED releases a new color space/gamma profile for Dragon. Great to hear a Scarlet-to Epic upgrade path will be made available. 6k at 80FPS! I wonder what the max FPS would be for 4K?
 
Does this mean that both EPIC MX and Scarlet will be discontinued? If yes, will there be another cheaper brain in the (near) future or will RED only sell EPIC Dragon? Will RED abandon the sub 10k$ (and sub 20k$ for that matter) market?

Scarlet MX 5K and EPIC Dragon 6K that would be nice :)
 
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Wow. This is killer! Thank you Jim, Jarred and everyone else at RED. Happy New Years!
 
You guys have been asking about Dragon-Mysterium-X comparison.
Here it goes:
Alexa vs. Epic (source) 13 stops
1279277171.jpg


Epic Mysterium-X HDRx test (source) 17-18 stops
1284304515.jpg

And stunning 18+ stops from Dragon
Jarred Land said:
1357064610.jpg
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Truly inspiring announcement. Thanks to the entire Red Team!

Seeing as Red has their hands full with creating fantastic sensors - I wonder why no entrepreneurial spirit has come up with a rear filter system for the Epic (or if this is even possible?). ND's beyond 1.2 start to create color shifts - and mirrored ND's have reflection problems.

With native ISO's in the range of 400-2000 - outdoors - it would be great to have an "internal" filter solution.

Good problem to have. :-)

Happy New Year!
 
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