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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSMC2. Unified.

Jeremy Scott said:
To those that are saying RED is good to the loyal customers. The only people that most benefit from this ordeal is first time RED owners.

Those that bought the Epic-W at 30k - Get's a DSMC2 Gemini for 35k
Those that bought the Scarlet-W at 12,500 - Get's a DSMC2 Gemini for 25k
Those that bought the Gemini at 24,500 - get the DSMC2 Gemini for 24,500
Those that bought the Scarlet-W at 10k - get the DSMC2 Gemini for 22,500

Those that never owned a RED - get the DSMC2 Gemini for $19,500


Those that bought the Epic-W at 30k - Get the DSMC2 Helium 8k for 35k

Those that never owned a RED - get the DSMC2 Helium 8k for $24,500

Not going to cover Montsro - You guys already know.
Click to expand...

lol ummmm NO. How about everyone who got the Epic-W for 20K, whether it was because they traded in their Red-One or any other old camera? And how about how even if they bought the EW for 30k and drop another 5k they're still getting s 50k camera at the EOD. Also no one is trading in their new camera for this upgrade so nice try valuing all of these cameras at the retail price.
 
Ash Worth said:
So bizzare quotes like these. Buy a new camera it loses value the moment you open box. The good thing is it makes the money back every day you book it. No business values newly bought equipment a year later as new. If you are a working professional then these numbers are kind of meaningless... and if you are upset over 3K then it's time to get out of owning cameras.

5K to extend the potential relevance of your camera is a gift.

Again I can't believe the whining and complaining.
Click to expand...

Preach! It's insane the amount of bitching and saltiness. People are so quick to feel entitled as if anyone owes them shit. It really shows peoples true colors.
 
Jeremy Scott said:
To those that are saying RED is good to the loyal customers. The only people that most benefit from this ordeal is first time RED owners.

Those that bought the Epic-W at 30k - Get's a DSMC2 Gemini for 35k
Those that bought the Scarlet-W at 12,500 - Get's a DSMC2 Gemini for 25k
Those that bought the Gemini at 24,500 - get the DSMC2 Gemini for 24,500
Those that bought the Scarlet-W at 10k - get the DSMC2 Gemini for 22,500

Those that never owned a RED - get the DSMC2 Gemini for $19,500


Those that bought the Epic-W at 30k - Get the DSMC2 Helium 8k for 35k

Those that never owned a RED - get the DSMC2 Helium 8k for $24,500

Not going to cover Montsro - You guys already know.
Click to expand...



Electronics are depreciating assets. If you wait long enough, that coveted Monstro 8K will be available on the used market for $1K.
 
Joachim Hoge said:
One thing I haven’t seen addressed is the sensor read out on weapon vs Epic-W. My Epic shows some jello effect ( but I’ve never had a problem with it)
Is the weapon better in this regard?
Click to expand...

+1

I suspect it's the same because the readout speed of the sensor is probably fixed, but the upgraded boards can process and store data faster, hence higher frame rates.

It would be awesome if it were faster, that is an issue i also have at times.

Then i'm also hoping a sped up UI

cheers
Paul
 
Don't buy a RED camera as mere electronics but see them as a passion device to create the best images possible! That way its value will never decreased.
When I bought my first RED (my lovely Scarlet-W) it's all pure joy and excitement, and I still have that same feeling every single day..
Even if the price should go down to $0.99 the excitement would stay the same.
Some of the most valuable things in the world are priceless.
 
Paul, I’m really hoping for a speed up in the UI department, and when zooming in or changing between rec and playback. I think this will improve when they don’t have to address so many different cameras. As someone else said, I think this is another reason for Red to streamline their line up
 
Brendan_H_Banks said:
Something that I think might be getting lost is the fact that Red will be receiving a camera, taking it apart, upgrading internal elements of the camera, swapping out the sensor, doing another QC, and then shipping it back to you for the price of $5k. I can't imagine that with the parts, shipping, and man-hours that they're making out with a huge margin (but I could be wrong). It's like those difficult conversations I've had with clients about edits "but now that we only want 2 x 30s spots instead of 2 x 60s spots, why doesn't it cost half as much?" It likely will cost more because of the change in deliverable requiring more time to be put in. If you buy it off the shelf new, it is at it's "correct" price, but labor and parts go into making the swap which cost $$$.
Click to expand...

Amen, brother, this and then some.

Red is also taking all of your Cameras and replacing the coin, which takes time and money for a small detail. They are also replacing the SSD Module on a large majority of these so that it reflects the new DSMC2 body - getting rid of the Epic-W SSD modules. How do you you think they are profiting form doing that - what do you think they are doing with all of those old SSD modules they won't be using anymore?
 
Ash Worth said:
So bizzare quotes like these. Buy a new camera it loses value the moment you open box. The good thing is it makes the money back every day you book it. No business values newly bought equipment a year later as new. If you are a working professional then these numbers are kind of meaningless... and if you are upset over 3K then it's time to get out of owning cameras.

5K to extend the potential relevance of your camera is a gift.

Again I can't believe the whining and complaining.
Click to expand...

This isn't whining and complaining. This is a Devaluation of a product that was held at a high esteem and monetary value. The market didn't decide this price drop. The company did. I personally, am benefiting from this whole thing, but I don't think this was a smart move. Lets be honest. I'm a fan boy, but this is weird. " but they are putting tools in the hands of artists" don't give me that junk. This is a company that has to make money at the end of the day who didn't get a lot of exponential praise from the hydrogen one reveal. Who know's how much $$ was poured into that project.

paying $5k for something that you know costs less is hurting my brain. It's not complaining its dumb. IMO RED must REALLY, and I mean REALLY need that $5k. No one is valuing newly bought equipment a year later as new. I'm talking about a company who DEVALUES their own product. by 50%. That is crazy. everyone is totally getting mind screwed here. You think you're buying a $50,000 Weapon camera for only $5k more if you are a epic-w owner. Truth is you are buying a $24,500 camera for $35,000. I"m sorry, but in the MARKET that RED was in and the BRAND they established as being so HIGH value. They dropped the price of one of their flag ship models by 50%???? are you kidding me? How is nobody seeing this.
 
It's my birthday this week! BEST BIRTHDAY GIFT EVER! THANKS JARRED, JIM, BRENT AND THE WHOLE RED TEAM!!!!!!!!
 
Can someone from RED let us know what the new crop factor will be for the DSMC2 Helium when shooting 4K HD @120 fps?

I am hoping this will bring down the crop factor from 2.69x on the Epic-W and more like the 1.96x of the Weapon.

Fingers crossed, and if so, I will upgrade tomorrow.
 
The same thing happened with the original Epic. No one should be surprised. This is almost the exact same time it happened in the product cycle. I purchased an Epic-M at a premium and within a year they did something along the line of halving the price. Are you buying a camera to create or as an investment? If you’re buying any camera to make money - that ship has sailed. Cameras are not a good investment. Your work should be making you money. The camera could facilitate that. Stop buying shit you can’t afford. Problem solved.

Go create :)
 
I love S-W monochrome, and would like to keep that camera as a Monochrome after upgrade

Brent,
I know you are super swamped with communication on all channels.
I pray that you get a window to catch your breath soon.
And only after you have had some time to relax, could you please clarify upgrade option for S-W Monochrome
 
DC Chavez said:
Can someone from RED let us know what the new crop factor will be for the DSMC2 Helium when shooting 4K HD @120 fps?

I am hoping this will bring down the crop factor from 2.69x on the Epic-W and more like the 1.96x of the Weapon.

Fingers crossed, and if so, I will upgrade tomorrow.
Click to expand...

No difference then it was in the past 2.69X
 
Rich Miro said:
This isn't whining and complaining. This is a Devaluation of a product that was held at a high esteem and monetary value. The market didn't decide this price drop. The company did. I personally, am benefiting from this whole thing, but I don't think this was a smart move. Lets be honest. I'm a fan boy, but this is weird. " but they are putting tools in the hands of artists" don't give me that junk. This is a company that has to make money at the end of the day who didn't get a lot of exponential praise from the hydrogen one reveal. Who know's how much $$ was poured into that project.

paying $5k for something that you know costs less is hurting my brain. It's not complaining its dumb. IMO RED must REALLY, and I mean REALLY need that $5k. No one is valuing newly bought equipment a year later as new. I'm talking about a company who DEVALUES their own product. by 50%. That is crazy. everyone is totally getting mind screwed here. You think you're buying a $50,000 Weapon camera for only $5k more if you are a epic-w owner. Truth is you are buying a $24,500 camera for $35,000. I"m sorry, but in the MARKET that RED was in and the BRAND they established as being so HIGH value. They dropped the price of one of their flag ship models by 50%???? are you kidding me? How is nobody seeing this.
Click to expand...
IMO, it is about tactics.
Monstro at 80K was way too high. For a little more money people would choose Alexa LF. In addition, people starting to dump Monstro for 60K almost brand new.
Now at 55K it sits right where Arri Mini is. But Monstro is VV and 8K! By doing so, RED probably tries to anticipate ahead of the market and hope to cut market share from Arri. Just my guess.

Same with Weapon, 50K was just too high. 35K would have been more reasonable.

So, this price adjustment, although unexpected, was somehow to be foressen.

Still feel sorry for those who paid full price.
 
DC Chavez said:
Incorrect- Epic Dragon @ 4K HD was a 1.96x magnification.
Click to expand...

You asked what the crop factor difference is between the Weapon vs the Helium, which actually doesn't make sense. The Weapon was a brain that either had the Dragon or the Helium sensor in it. The crop factor at 4K HD is 2.96X on the helium sensor, whether it's in an Epic-W or a Weapon.
 
Thai Christen said:
...people starting to dump Monstro for 60K almost brand new.
...
Click to expand...

I'm one of those with a Monstro for sale or trade, and while this new pricing has taken away potential buyers for my Monstro, I'm not in panic mode. Reason is the Monstro sensor is going to be a $40,000 upgrade when they have the current sensor stock drawn down.

RED has just so many ovens for baking sensors and I think a lot of that capacity was allocated to Monstro. But with the coming camera modules for Hydrogen, I think many of those Monstro sensor ovens will be dedicated to Hydrogen module sensors. When that happens, the Monstro will almost become a specialty order sensor and because the numbers made will be fewer, the price will be higher.

Depending on how I gauge the market, I will likely gradually raise the price of my CF Monstro when current stock is sold. Fortunately, it's paid for and I don't have to sell it... and the more Monstro is used for content, the more desirable it will become.

So while current Monstro owners are undermined by RED at the moment, I feel like it will all shake out in the future. At least that is my take on it.
 
emil_h said:
You asked what the crop factor difference is between the Weapon vs the Helium, which actually doesn't make sense. The Weapon was a brain that either had the Dragon or the Helium sensor in it. The crop factor at 4K HD is 2.96X on the helium sensor, whether it's in an Epic-W or a Weapon.
Click to expand...

Not to be a pedant but the Weapon body contained the Dragon, Dragon VV, Helium, and Monstro sensors at various points in time. :tongue_smilie:
 
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