DSMC2. Unified.

[Michael Wahba]

Any update regarding receiving some sort of email comformation that our name was added to the queue?

Would like confirmation also!

This is the primary reason I am going from Epic-W Helium to DSMC2 Helium via the $4,950 offer(sick). Stills, baby. Gemini is great and all(I think, still haven't tested it) but at half the resolution I would no longer have my Red as a stills option, for me it just doesn't work.

Damn, see I’ve always been curious about this also. Is 5k stills just not decent at all? I am GEMINI all the way but would love to be able to pull some high quality stills. Any comparison thread on this?

 

[emil_h]

This is crazy.
Not Red's move, but the reaction. If you didn't see this coming you weren't paying attention. Everyone i knew that are mostly in the high end rental game all were saying it's all going to be narrowed down soon, especially when the sensor swap program was announced, and for them the only viable camera to rent will be the top tier Monstro.

This is smart.
When this was announced my immediate reaction was, its about time. Have an entry level (4k for all) a standard model and a top tier, why anything else. why would a company deal with so many models and so many different firmware issues, bodies, hardware issues, etc. it was so obvious red was stretched thin and it was so obvious when it was being gradually done to get low cost cameras into the public after the raven especially with scarlet-w, and then epic-w, which at that point i was like, really?

anyway, this is all going to make things better in the end for everyone. if you are invested in a high end weapon or monstro then you've had it for a while and hopefully you made some money back right now and if you haven't you are in the wrong business. if you just got it, well then those things happen and someone is always going to suffer when a mass deal is made to customers. but, but if you bought that high end of a camera, like most rental companies, you didn't loose value, because you weren't looking to sell for a profit, you were looking to rent it, as a tool, or with you and that price is not going to change. just keep on keeping on.

lastly, and i just have to say, i have no interest in upgrading or selling my raven right now, its ll i need as a personal basic camera i can shoot 4k at 100fps, but...Brent, Jarred, i know in the later stages as you were getting back ordered you started to lay it down that they were being left out of upgrade paths, BUT, when it was 4k for ALL, it was completely being pushed as a way into the red ecosystem and if you buy into the red ecosystem you will ALWAYS be taken care of, ALWAYS. so i don't think its right that you just leave them out. i think you have to offer some path even if it's little step by little step instead of a big jump up price. how about some prenowned certified scarlet-w's that come in? or a discount towards certified used anything? I personally think you do owe that to all that jumped in at that level when taking their first leap into RED 4k for ALL.

good luck with the transition! Thank you!
and this has been a great diversion from Hydrogen

+1 I agree with this all. If you're in the top tier of REDS ecosystem that means you should be working large projects and getting paid top rates. If that is the case then you should've paid off the camera by now or close to it. Even if you didn't, its a risk everyone takes, especially when spending 50K+ for a camera. If anyone is gonna lose it typically is the guys at the top since they can manage is better then the guys at the bottom.

Also in regards to Jordan's comment about the Raven owners. It would be awesome if there was any path to move forward big or small. If not, no lost sleep over it. It's been a great B camera and happy I jumped on it.

 

[Todd T]

All of this excitement and drama seems like déjà vu...

Oh wait, this really did happen: Red gets Epic price cut, drops M, X and Scarlet brains by up to 45 percent

 

[Andrew R Lewis]

Damn, see I’ve always been curious about this also. Is 5k stills just not decent at all? I am GEMINI all the way but would love to be able to pull some high quality stills. Any comparison thread on this?

Well, I'm no sensor and resolution scientist like Graeme and Phil Holland but the Gemini has 15+MP vs the Helium 35+MP on top of 5k vs 8k. So if stills are a part of your business model or workflow in any way you have to consider this.

UPDATE: Honestly the first camera I ever bought was a Canon 60d that had 18+MP and higher resolution than Gemini with an APS-C sensor. Now, I'm only referencing that for stills work. I could shoot great stills in Camera RAW with that little guy, and sometimes still do. But now when I need to shoot stills, I take out the Epic-W and despite the obvious downside of camera size and weight, it is a far superior stills box.

 

[Dominic Boudreault]

Yes... of course. If you bought a Monstro VV or Weapon full price... we will take care of you.

Paid full price for my Weapon. Can you please expand on this? What does this means exactly?

 

[Michael Wahba]

Well, I'm no sensor and resolution scientist like Graham and Phil Holland but the Gemini has 15+MP vs the Helium 35+MP on top of 5k vs 8k. So if stills are a part of your business model or workflow in any way you have to consider this.

UPDATE: Honestly the first camera I ever bought was a Canon 60d that had 18+MP and higher resolution than Gemini with an APS-C sensor. Now, I'm only referencing that for stills work. I could shoot great stills in Camera RAW with that little guy, and sometimes still do. But now when I need to shoot stills, I take out the Epic-W and despite the obvious downside of camera size and weight, it is a far superior stills box.

Damn that is a tough decision. UGH!

 

[Alex Bros]

As someone who had an early CF Weapon (purchase), and a Monstro (upgrade) for a couple months now, I'm kinda confused and don't really know where I stand. Little bit nervous about the value of my investment dropping by 24k, the price of the body went down by 30k ish but the price of the sensor went up... it's all kinda weird but ultimately I trust Red to be fair, they always have been.

 

[Brent Carter]

5 hours of sleep, 2 Red Bulls... Let's catch up, shall we?

What about an upgrade from the Scarlet-W to a monochrome sensor ? Jarred, would it be possible and at which cost ?

Since HELIUM and HELIUM MONOCHROME sensors are same cost, you could do the upgrade path to DSMC2 HELIUM with that sensor.

…

SOOOOOO...the only thing I will miss is the logo EPIC W in front of the body, I liked whn cameras has names on it...so here is my suggestion:
Why not to give the option to have engraved our name instead DSMC 2???
Jarred can you make this for us?
Thanks!

…

Luca, driving towards greater efficiency and simplicity was a huge driver for this shift. Stuff like additional engraving and keeping the name EPIC-W kinda defeats that purpose.

who is responsible for the currency conversions?
It might even be cheaper to buy the exchange in usd and have the camera shipped from Europe to the US and back.
12500 USD is approximately 10500 euros today. 12900 € is more then a 20% increase, that seems a bit odd to me

Uhh… Finance Dept. We do not adjust daily like the market. I am pretty sure we do it every two months or once a quarter.

so whats the difference in specs? I just got a gemini and I am not seeing a spec difference, but I could be on wrong page

steve

Compare DSCM2 GEMINI and EPIC-W GEMINI specs. Faster data rates is one. Being able to accommodate larger than S35 sensors is another.

Damn. $25,000.00 for essentially the 8k Weapon Helium is a fantastic price. I wish we hadn't paid double that less than a year ago. That's the price of living on the bleeding edge I suppose.

I could live with and understand that concept. The thing that rubs me the wrong way is that I feel like we were told that being at the top tier meant we were in the sweet spot for upgrades. From everything I saw on the boards here, to conversations with people at RED, if you wanted to get into the Monstro sensor, 8K Weapon Helium was the place to be.

We missed the boat on the $10,000.00 upgrade to Monstro, that's fine we weren't ready at the time. We were disappointed by the $30,000.00 upgrade price, which made it unlikely we'd be pulling the trigger anytime soon. Now our camera's value has been cut in half, and our upgrade path to Monstro is now $40,000.00.

I'm happy for you guys that aren't our boat right now! This is a great deal for people just now acquiring a RED or coming from the Epic-W even. Jarred mentioned he was putting something together for people like us, I hope that works out!

We've loved our RED cameras. We started on the Scarlet-MX, shot the crap out of that. Upgraded to the Epic-MX, which was an absolute workhorse (we still have it). We bought a brand new Helium 8K Weapon at full price and that camera has created stunning imagery. I've espoused the virtue of these cameras for a long time. This is the first time I've felt like I've been left out in the cold.

Bummer.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, Jarred, the team, and I are working to see what we can do for people with WEAPON HELIUM.

As a current Epic-W owner if I move to the new DSMC2 Gemini instead of DSMC2 Helium will this be a longer path to Monstro?

Monstro is our end goal and we're trying to eliminate as many detours as possible, if possible. And at this time Epic-W cannot go straight to Monstro with the information I've gathered.

Thanks.

Once you are in DSMC2, you can go to MONSTRO. Does not matter if start out with HELIUM or GEMINI, no priority in queue.

I have a question. How does this all effect the idea of a sensor swap program. Do weapon owners with red armor get in this program or is there something we have to do. Also does this program just live on for the life of this body type? Or does the swapping have to happen with in a certain time?
Thank you.

RA-W remains the same functionality with DSMC2 as WEAPON, and carries over.

Our first Arri Alexa Plus we paid near $70,000 for back in around 2012. in 2013 ARRI dropped the price suddenly to $44,000 without notice. I saw my value go away by almost half. It hurt but it's normal and expected. They have done that a few times since with other cameras. Right now you can buy a Alexa Plus directly from ARRI for $11k. Just 5 years laters. less than 20% of it's value. How long has weapon been out? 4 years?

And Arri do not have an upgrade program.

So I do not understand why people being so hard on RED when they are the only ones that actually take care of their customers with upgrades.

WEAPON was announced at NAB 2015.

Any update regarding receiving some sort of email comformation that our name was added to the queue?

Was just working on copy as we speak. We will be doing daily blasts of confirmations on requests starting today.

Paid full price for my Weapon. Can you please expand on this? What does this means exactly?

Working on it. Expect an update in the coming days. Thanks for your patience.

——

A lot of folks have asked about warranty…

If you have a WEAPON, you have all the board sets, going to DSMC2 is cosmetic… No effect on warranty status.

If you are SCARLET-W DRAGON or EPIC/SCARLET DRAGON who are trading in to a DSMC2 brain, if you have not entered your extended warranty (RED ARMOR) timeframe (i.e., still under original warranty), that will carry over to your new camera. If currently in extended warranty period, that balance does not carry over. Same policy as with prior trade-in programs...

EPIC-W, updating boards to DSMC2, congrats - your standard warranty went from 1 year to 2 years. And you have option of buying UPGRADE ARMOR on top of that. If you already have RED ARMOR, that carries over as well.

If you need more details or clarifications, your rep is your next step, I don’t want this thread de-railed into a warranty one : )

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Just a thought...

Just a thought...

What's fair for the CF Weapon folks?

1) Do we "deserve" consideration for "taking one for the team" by paying a premium price?

2) Does RED "owe" us something because the relentless march of technology inevitably devalues hardware?

Nobody was "forced" to go CF Weapon. That said, there was a risk of getting "left behind" if you didn't get the high-spec boards...

I'd like to suggest that RED to show some love to the CF (+Forged and StormTroopers) peeps by giving us pole position for the DSMC3 program. This seems like a win-win to me. It rewards RED's most loyal customers without cutting into the revenues from the next body.

Cheers - #19

 

[Bob Gundu]

This new Unified body is definitely the way to go. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but the guts of these cameras are going to be the same horsepower. THATS HUGE! The sensor will be the name of the camera. YES. No more Weapon Terminology, YES! Whenever RED does this, it always comes with mixed feelings and anger, but I do feel this move was necessary. I'll shut up now.

 

[Norbert Niederacher]

Hi Brent,

How was the birthday-party with your son?

5 hours of sleep, 2 Red Bulls... Let's catch up, shall we?

 

[Rodrigo Violante]

Jarred sent me a personal e-mail about the Monstro situation and to be honest the simple fact that he took the time to write me and telling me that he will make it right speaks so much of why I chose this company in the first place. When you bet in your customers and they come first, you have them for the long term.

Honestly there are few companies I can think off that they have such a direct contact with the users. Everyone when I was making the decision of Red Monstro vs Arri, most of people I know they told me to go with ARRI, but I had some amazing previous experience with my upgrade path to Epic-W that I decided to make a 80k bet with the Monstro, and again I was proved it was worth it. I also wanted to point out that I do not rent my equipment, that I only have it for my personal use and my own projects, so I never saw it as investment and a ROI. So at the beginning I was shocked that I just lost 40% of its value.

 

[Alan Jalkut]

Do we get a new 2 year DMC2 guarantee if we upgrade?

Do we get a new 2 year DMC2 guarantee if we upgrade?

Yes.

Do we get a new 2 year DMC2 guarantee if we upgrade? Epic-w to Gemini or Helium

 

[Marco Eisenbarth]

Jarred sent me a personal e-mail about the Monstro situation and to be honest the simple fact that he took the time to write me and telling me that he will make it right speaks so much of why I chose this company in the first place. When you bet in your customers and they come first, you have them for the long term.

Honestly there are few companies I can think off that they have such a direct contact with the users. Everyone when I was making the decision of Red Monstro vs Arri, most of people I know they told me to go with ARRI, but I had some amazing previous experience with my upgrade path to Epic-W that I decided to make a 80k bet with the Monstro, and again I was proved it was worth it. I also wanted to point out that I do not rent my equipment, that I only have it for my personal use and my own projects, so I never saw it as investment and a ROI. So at the beginning I was shocked that I just lost 40% of its value.

what he said.

 

[H Dewey]

This new Unified body is definitely the way to go. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but the guts of these cameras are going to be the same horsepower. THATS HUGE! The sensor will be the name of the camera. YES. No more Weapon Terminology, YES! Whenever RED does this, it always comes with mixed feelings and anger, but I do feel this move was necessary. I'll shut up now.

No doubt it's an improvement. Just should have been done much sooner.

 

[Brent Carter]

Hi Brent,

How was the birthday-party with your son?

Thanks for asking. Last night was decorating after boys went to sleep, today is actual birthday : )

 

[Brent Carter]

Do we get a new 2 year DMC2 guarantee if we upgrade? Epic-w to Gemini or Helium

Check my earlier post.

EPIC-W, updating boards to DSMC2, congrats - your standard warranty went from 1 year to 2 years. And you have option of buying UPGRADE ARMOR on top of that. If you already have RED ARMOR, that carries over as well.

If you need more details or clarifications, your rep is your next step, I don’t want this thread de-railed into a warranty one : )

 

[Thierry Lacombe]

Don't forget to update this page with the name changing:
http://www.red.com/tools/recording-time

 

[Curtis boggs]

Curious what everyone thinks this will do to our market?

Lots of used Helium and Monstro showing up on the market cheap, devalued rentals,
High end cameras in the hands of many more.

Just curious on long term industry effects.

Curtis

 

[Homer Dulu]

I'm not sure it Monstro competes with mini.... Or Arri in general. Apples and oranges.

Good point. But at least it provides an alternative