DSMC Release v7.0.0

[rand thompson]

Am I the only one who doesn't like the new IPP2? I see a green cast. I prefer the "IPP2 Preview Med contrast" much more than the new one.

Malik,

I think the default Settings in Redcine-X pro are to perfectly balance the RGB values in the "Highs" and the RGB values in the "Shadows" as well.

here is a clip of your footage from the your drop box.

[/url]A008_C003_1001EF.0002451_S000F.0000000 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

When I set The "Looks Manager" back to default I get this.

[/url]Screenshot (2) by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]A008_C003_1001EF.0002451_S000F_S000.0000000 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

I think the New IPP2 automatically balances out the "Highs" and "Lows", which 8 out of 1o times will get you both perfect "whites" and "blacks". However, sometimes a scene may have a "dominant" color in the " highs" that messes these perfect settings up.

here is your clip with the "highs" balanced in Davinci Resolve. I used the "Medium Con-Soft" IPP2 luts from 09/08/2017 with clip set to "RedwidegamutRGB/ Log3G10" in " Camera Raw'

[/url]Capture 1 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]balanced highs_1.1.4 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

There seems to be a greenish cast like I believe you observed in redcine-x.

You will probably just have to grade it out, because I believe redcine-x, will always try to balance out your highs and lows for you automatically. Someone with more knowledge than myself can probably verify if what I said is correct or not.

[/url]medium soft 2_1.1.6 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]medium soft_1.1.5 2 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

Here is the "Parade scope" for the two grades above with a little more "blue" and a little more "red' added in the "highs".

[/url]add blue grade by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]


this grade has "whites" and "blacks" out of balance.

[/url]medium soft 3_1.1.6 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]Capture 3 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[Phil Holland]

Hi Phil,

Thank you for your interest.
I was talking about the New IPP2 vs the older one, not about legacy.

We'll need to get the official answer from Graeme, but there were a lot of iterations of the transforms during the alpha and beta, the final transforms are "what should be used".

 

[Azzie Scott]

**UPDATE**
I just did a auto black shade and that seems to have fixed the issue under lower iso settings but if i rate to 3200 the line is slightly visible. Any suggestions?

**Update**
Well after my firmware 7.0 update that vertical line on my screen and images has stayed. My cam is on its way to RED HQ. Hope no ones else experiences this issue. Good vibes and energy to all my REDUSERS.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

**Update**
Well after my firmware 7.0 update that vertical line on my screen and images has stayed. My cam is on its way to RED HQ. Hope no ones else experiences this issue. Good vibes and energy to all my REDUSERS.

Did you try deleting all your sensor calibrations and re-calibrating? Apparently there is an issue where new sensor calibrations are influenced by existing calibrations so it can't fix sensor lines. This fixed a line I had on my sensor.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Btw, anyone know if there are any developments on the highlight recovery front? Saw some amazing but impossible to control highlight recovery on the IPP2 betas that really needs to be refined and put into release builds asap

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Using FW v7 the burnt in proxy files do not seem to match the R3D files The Proxies present with a flatter gamma with raised black levels to about 64 and highlights only at 896 (using Resolves 0-1023 Waveform). While I can only look at the r3d files in Redcine X v50 the matching R3D file shows blacks down to 0 and highlights at 98 on Redcine’s 0-100 Waveform. I am viewing the r3D files using the IPP2 pipeline so they should be the same? If I transcode the R3D files out of Redcine X v50 to a pro res file and bring both into FCPX the proxies are way flatter and the waveforms do not match. Am I doing something wrong and are other people getting the files to match?

When selecting from Legacy to IPP2 in the Image Pipeline menu I am seeing the black levels in my DSMC2 EVF lift quite considerably and oddly also outside the picture area? My 7" LCD also does this to a lesser extent. To see my gorgeous OLED EVF go milky brings a tear to my eye.

Its very important that the proxies are a mirror of what we are seeing on our field monitors when we are shooting or the "Burn in” mode has no value. I have opened a ticket on this issue but was wondering how many others are seeing these effects?

 

[Phil Holland]

Btw, anyone know if there are any developments on the highlight recovery front? Saw some amazing but impossible to control highlight recovery on the IPP2 betas that really needs to be refined and put into release builds asap

I've got some examples of some of the effects of IPP2 I just slapped together if that's what you're looking for:

 

[Brendan H. Banks]

Using FW v7 the burnt in proxy files do not seem to match the R3D files The Proxies present with a flatter gamma with raised black levels to about 64 and highlights only at 896 (using Resolves 0-1023 Waveform). While I can only look at the r3d files in Redcine X v50 the exactly same file shows blacks down to 0 and highlights at 98 on Redcine’s 0-100 Waveform. I am viewing the r3D files using the IPP2 pipeline so they should be the same? If I transcode the R3D files out of Redcine X v50 to a pro res file and bring both into FCPX the proxies are way flatter and the waveforms do not match. Am I doing something wrong and are other people getting the files to match?

When selecting from Legacy to IPP2 in the Image Pipeline menu I am seeing the black levels in my DSMC2 EVF lift quite considerably and oddly also outside the picture area? My 7" LCD also does this to a lesser extent. To see my gorgeous OLED EVF go milky brings a tear to my eye.

Its very important that the proxies are a mirror of what we are seeing on our field monitors when we are shooting or the "Burn in” mode has no value. I have opened a ticket on this issue but was wondering how many others are seeing these effects?

Currently seeing the same thing and I believe others are as well. Hoping it's something of an easy patch. Oddly enough, I don't actually see the same shift in my Bomb LCOS EVF, but I do see it in my touch monitor. It now feels like my monitor matches my LCOS EVF, which is prone to being a little milky anyway (mostly use for framing outside so it's not a big deal to me).

 

[BrendanLeahy]

Using FW v7 the burnt in proxy files do not seem to match the R3D files The Proxies present with a flatter gamma with raised black levels to about 64 and highlights only at 896 (using Resolves 0-1023 Waveform). While I can only look at the r3d files in Redcine X v50 the exactly same file shows blacks down to 0 and highlights at 98 on Redcine’s 0-100 Waveform. I am viewing the r3D files using the IPP2 pipeline so they should be the same? If I transcode the R3D files out of Redcine X v50 to a pro res file and bring both into FCPX the proxies are way flatter and the waveforms do not match. Am I doing something wrong and are other people getting the files to match?

When selecting from Legacy to IPP2 in the Image Pipeline menu I am seeing the black levels in my DSMC2 EVF lift quite considerably and oddly also outside the picture area? My 7" LCD also does this to a lesser extent. To see my gorgeous OLED EVF go milky brings a tear to my eye.

Its very important that the proxies are a mirror of what we are seeing on our field monitors when we are shooting or the "Burn in” mode has no value. I have opened a ticket on this issue but was wondering how many others are seeing these effects?

I posted this yesterday - when I go to proxy record options, it shows the ProRes will record DragonColor2/Log3G10, regardless of what my R3D files are set at. I'm also not seeing any difference switching between displaying REDGamma4 and the Log3G10 when selected. Is this what you mean?

 

[Azzie Scott]

Did you try deleting all your sensor calibrations and re-calibrating? Apparently there is an issue where new sensor calibrations are influenced by existing calibrations so it can't fix sensor lines. This fixed a line I had on my sensor.

yes I did that. when the hard blue line showed up I did a black shade and the line went from hard blue to a lighter red line. I even rolled back to 6.3.105 and the red line remained. Deleted old calibrations as well. I tried upgraded the firmware again to 7.0 and the Hard blue line returned. This all happened after I upgraded.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

We'll need to get the official answer from Graeme, but there were a lot of iterations of the transforms during the alpha and beta, the final transforms are "what should be used".

Yes, it's the latest ones that should be used. You can download them from the Red website support section or make them via the menu option in REDCine-X.

The changes over their life have been very tiny. There's some subtle difference in the shape of the tone curve for overall image brightness. Nothing that would effect colour or colour shifts.

Above Rand asks "I think the New IPP2 automatically balances out the "Highs" and "Lows"," - nope. Nothing automatic on IPP2. It's all purely deterministic on whatever settings you're setting. It is not doing anything for you behind the scenes.

Graeme

 

[Malik Tigrine]

Yes, it's the latest ones that should be used. You can download them from the Red website support section or make them via the menu option in REDCine-X.

The changes over their life have been very tiny. There's some subtle difference in the shape of the tone curve for overall image brightness. Nothing that would effect colour or colour shifts.

Above Rand asks "I think the New IPP2 automatically balances out the "Highs" and "Lows"," - nope. Nothing automatic on IPP2. It's all purely deterministic on whatever settings you're setting. It is not doing anything for you behind the scenes.

Graeme

Hi Graeme,

So do you have an explanation for my colour shift ?

Thanks.

 

[rand thompson]

Graeme,

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Mike P.]

Is there a reason why the new build requires 2GB vram for GPU Acceleration compared to 1GB of build 42 (even when it’s set to RWG/3G10)?

 

[Jason Han]

yes I did that. when the hard blue line showed up I did a black shade and the line went from hard blue to a lighter red line. I even rolled back to 6.3.105 and the red line remained. Deleted old calibrations as well. I tried upgraded the firmware again to 7.0 and the Hard blue line returned. This all happened after I upgraded.

Seems like this firmware is a little off, I had like 50 horizontal hard lines after my firmware update. I tried installing the same version again and still saw some lines. After I restarted the camera it disappeared. Seems like you have a different issue however.

I'm also noticing the lifted blacks on IPP2 Med Con. Also today when I was filming, the nightmare I experienced last year came back on my screen (hard green highlights). That scared the shit out of me so I ran to DMT and asked to revert my firmware immediately. Before I reverted however, I wanted to check the files on a computer, and it seems like the hard green highlights weren't there (I'm not talking about the natural green cast Helium (or standard OLPF) always had, permanent -10 tint still applied). I figured it was just a camera visual bug and not on the actual files... I'll find out if post is seeing this issue tomorrow, might revert back a firmware just in case

 

[Derrick Cohan]

Loving the new possibilities of this firmware however I am noticing elevated black levels and washed out color on my 7" DSMC2 Touch. I'm comparing the footage on my Odyssey 7" OLED and through RCX, and it seems to be a miscalibration of the 7" Red touch with the new firmware and IPP2. When I switch over to Legacy and RG4 the color and contrast levels seem to go back to normal.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

I posted this yesterday - when I go to proxy record options, it shows the ProRes will record DragonColor2/Log3G10, regardless of what my R3D files are set at. I'm also not seeing any difference switching between displaying REDGamma4 and the Log3G10 when selected. Is this what you mean?

Brendan,

I cannot find "Proxy Record Options" in the menu? In "Settings> "Recording >"Select Record File Format" I can see "Baked in Settings" where I have chosen "All Image Settings" the manual says this "Bakes all image settings into the recorded file, including the Primary Raw Development, Grading, and Output Transform stages. This includes the 3D LUT, CDLs, and output color space"

My output colour space is rec709 and my monitor display presets are set rec 709/SDR.

Brendan are you in IPP2 or Legacy Pipeline modes? I am running in my "image pipeline>mode" IPP2. Are you in Legacy mode?

On a general note I would love a "IPP2 and your camera" video. This area is confusing for everyone except for the most technically proficient and lets face it thats not most camera people.

Here is a video showing the jumping black levels in the DSMC2 EVF when switched between Legacy and IPP2 Pipelines. It starts in Legacy then swaps to IPP2
https://vimeo.com/237837256

 

[Jamon Lewis]

I'm loving IPP2, but can we get some information on which "sigma art" lenses were added? My 20mm sigma art Nikon mount still doesn't work, it doesn't detect the lens and cycles the aperture lever back and forth constantly.

+ 85mm 1.4 for Nikon still not supported either.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

Brendan,

I cannot find "Proxy Record Options" in the menu? In "Settings> "Recording >"Select Record File Format" I can see "Baked in Settings" where I have chosen "All Image Settings" the manual says this "Bakes all image settings into the recorded file, including the Primary Raw Development, Grading, and Output Transform stages. This includes the 3D LUT, CDLs, and output color space"

My output colour space is rec709 and my monitor display presets are set rec 709/SDR.

Brendan are you in IPP2 or Legacy Pipeline modes? I am running in my "image pipeline>mode" IPP2. Are you in Legacy mode?

On a general note I would love a "IPP2 and your camera" video. This area is confusing for everyone except for the most technically proficient and lets face it thats not most camera people.

Here is a video showing the jumping black levels in the DSMC2 EVF when switched between Legacy and IPP2 Pipelines. It starts in Legacy then swaps to IPP2
https://vimeo.com/237837256

Hey Tom - sorry, I meant it was through the image pipeline > mode. I can only have Legacy for my Mg, but found it interesting that the ProRes files are baked in as DragonColor2/Log3G10

The issue you're having is completely different, and I definitely hope they fix it since that looks really troublesome!

 

[Azzie Scott]

Seems like this firmware is a little off, I had like 50 horizontal hard lines after my firmware update. I tried installing the same version again and still saw some lines. After I restarted the camera it disappeared. Seems like you have a different issue however.

I'm also noticing the lifted blacks on IPP2 Med Con. Also today when I was filming, the nightmare I experienced last year came back on my screen (hard green highlights). That scared the shit out of me so I ran to DMT and asked to revert my firmware immediately. Before I reverted however, I wanted to check the files on a computer, and it seems like the hard green highlights weren't there (I'm not talking about the natural green cast Helium (or standard OLPF) always had, permanent -10 tint still applied). I figured it was just a camera visual bug and not on the actual files... I'll find out if post is seeing this issue tomorrow, might revert back a firmware just in case

Yes I agree, the new firmware is awesome but it derailed my upcoming shoot. My cam is at RED HQ being serviced. At least your lines weren't on your footage, unfortunately mine were. I also let the techs know that after I upgraded, I tried to play back some clips in cam and the screen went black for about 10 secs and the fans ran at high speed just like it does when your upgrading the firmware. Then the playback screen would come back and I was able to review clips again. This happen to me three times during a shoot. My heart was racing. Hopefully this is something they can look into as well.