Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSMC Camera Firmware release 5.1.55 and 5.2.21 beta

steve green said:
Inadequate no, not performing up to specs, yes……We all understand the need to expose properly, that's not the issue here, as I see it. Folks are not concerned about severely underexposed footage, that's a problem no matter what camera you're using. The problem being, what seems to be that the image CAPTURED by the new OLPF is arguably a step back from the MX (in some areas) at 800 iso.

Having that extra layer of wondering is the footage going to be dealt with properly, pertaining to the DEB issue, in post, shouldn't be there. Of course with any camera system you can tweak things in post to improve the image. What I think people are concerned about, is with this "fix" as it is now, you need to "tweak" in post just to get back to where you thought you were when you left the set. That's a big wild card that shouldn't be there.
Click to expand...

Ok. I see that point of view. But I don't agree really that MX outperforms dragon at 800 properly exposed. I'm more confortable at 800 ISO on dragon than I ever was on MX.

Battistella
 
The frustation is that after waiting for over 2 years for the dragon upgrade and red hyping it all up, now that it's in the wild it's not all that's promised. Clean iso 2000 was promised, 120fps 5k, 16+ stops dr, still in the test from radiant image it looks the alexa still
holds more dr with its 14 stops. People keep saying it looks great at 250 iso, sure it does, but i need 2000 because i can't light everything i shoot. I updated to be able to shoot at 2000 when i have no choice. I agree its a step forward from the MX sensor, but not major leap forward like was being suggested. its more a evolution with some better specs... Underpromise and over deliver instead of the other way around.

I will have to explain to people they have to check if deb is on, put add on if they really want the best quality, that they have to transcode through redcine version which is not released yet, but first have to update it etc. By the time i explained that there already mentally choose to shoot alexa. 6k is not a bonus above 5k for me. Producers ask me all the time: so were shooting red, but i presume we will shoot 2k right? I try to explain that i need 5k or now 6k for the field of view, that is already a hard to understand concept for producers. Try to keep stuff so simple as possible with less options...

as mark said: people want simple good and fast workflows. And red with the dragon now is not making it a easy sell for itself. To many if and buts, and waiting for updates. The whole dragoncolor/dragongamma is still in beta firmware, that should be priority #1, a release build fully optimized for dragon with the noise issue incamera problem solved.

Dont get me wrong i really like the dragon and its great to shoot with, but i think red should be carefull now not to make it to complicated for not well informed users and post people.
 
Max M. said:
The frustation ....... not major leap forward like was being suggested. its more a evolution with some better specs... Underpromise and over deliver instead of the other way around.
Click to expand...

That would be nice.

Max M. said:
And red with the dragon now is not making it a easy sell for itself. To many if and buts, and waiting for updates. The whole dragoncolor/dragongamma is still in beta firmware, that should be priority #1, a release build fully optimized for dragon with the noise issue incamera problem solved.
Click to expand...

The whole RED shoot is becoming a labour of love...bordering on laborious love. Some recent problems have been fixed with band aid and this causes extra hoops for us to jump through. I do hope simplification is in our future.
 
This firmware looks great. Already locked and loaded on our guns.

Looking forward to the new REDCINE-X. Current version has not been playing nice with RR-X (TB2).
 
David Battistella said:
yet people are asking for the fix "in camera" and I'm not getting what that means, like you don't want the extended ability to clean up severely underexposed footage in post? As far as I can tell so far DEB is going to be at its best when you are trying to recover something that is about three or more stops under.
Click to expand...

Because instead of having to "recover", i can shoot it so it looks correct to begin with.
 
Anyone know if the magenta line issue is fixed with this firmware? Happens when you shoot into a source like a kino , window, even stop lights. I've gotten it all the time and I my mini-mag is in for repair already and can't update firmware. The last threads about it got locked for some reason, would really like to know, at this point the noise isn't even that big of an issue comparatively. Anyone able to do a new Dragon firmware vs Epic MX comparison.
 
Charles Bergquist said:
Anyone know if the magenta line issue is fixed with this firmware? Happens when you shoot into a source like a kino , window, even stop lights. I've gotten it all the time and I my mini-mag is in for repair already and can't update firmware. The last threads about it got locked for some reason, would really like to know, at this point the noise isn't even that big of an issue comparatively. Anyone able to do a new Dragon firmware vs Epic MX comparison.
Click to expand...

Currently, the magenta line(s)/band(s) is a huge problem on the Dragon. I don't care if "it's a typical CMOS thing" etc
It's not that bad on other CMOS cameras I've shot with (not even close), and it's much, much worse than the MX sensor!
Something's definitely wrong.

Take a small LED light, shoot straight into it and pan the camera around it.
See for yourself.
 
Anyone with a beta. I have some footage i need to cross check the footage that i'm shooting is correctable any chance i can send it to you and have you send me tiff bacK?
 
jacob.schwarz said:
Anyone with a beta. I have some footage i need to cross check the footage that i'm shooting is correctable any chance i can send it to you and have you send me tiff bacK?
Click to expand...

Hit me baby. PM me.
 
Done. I'll send them over now via the dropbox.

Any idea when they'll be releasing the new RCX to us common folk?
 
jacob.schwarz said:
Done. I'll send them over now via the dropbox.

Any idea when they'll be releasing the new RCX to us common folk?
Click to expand...


When it's 100% ready I imagine. I've been stress testing it alarmingly hard these last few days. The good news I can report here is in terms of what D.E.B. does is I haven't found any situation that produces undesirable results. It's actually improving everything it touches. I did go out today to shoot some really hard footage for it to deal with, so we'll see what the results of that are. I'm working on that this evening.
 
Does this update do anything for MonoChrome Dragon?
 
Medavoym said:
Currently, the magenta line(s)/band(s) is a huge problem on the Dragon. I don't care if "it's a typical CMOS thing" etc
It's not that bad on other CMOS cameras I've shot with (not even close), and it's much, much worse than the MX sensor!
Something's definitely wrong.

Take a small LED light, shoot straight into it and pan the camera around it.
See for yourself.
Click to expand...

Yes I just did this Dragon vs MX and the Dragon has significantly more magenta banding/artifacting. It is workable on the MX but the problem on the Dragon is unacceptable. I hope they are taking note and fixing it, despite the thread about it being shut down. It is a serious issue. As a side note, when the lite panel was a in a certain position an entire pixel row dropped out and became magenta. Filed a support ticket and Dragon went back to RED a few days ago.
 
Please don't let this issue fall off, in my opinion this is far more important than some red speckles. This seriously has limited how I shoot the Dragon vs any other camera.
 
Phil ran some test for me this evening and the D.E.B update is really what we are all looking for. I think once it come out we'll all be really pleased. Hopefully it is sooner then later. Good job all.
 
Last edited:
jacob.schwarz said:
Phil ran some test for me this evening and the D.E.B update is really what we are all looking for. I think once it come out we'll all be really pleased. Hopefully it is sooner then later. Good job all.
Click to expand...


Yep. The long and the short of it is that people were asking for something to help deal with "red specks" in shadows. What Graeme has ended up producing however is really interesting. It gets rid of the red specks, but also enhances the channel information via his adaptive debayer color science/algorithm/voodoo. D.E.B. has surprised me in that way. Red and Blue are cleaner and more detailed. Green is effected too, but not as drastically. What you end up with is slightly more detail overall within the image at any ISO. Pretty cool.

I'm testing all sorts of things. Green and Blue Screen, flesh both properly exposed and significantly over/under, dark things like tires, deep browns in wood, etc.... At the moment I'm working on anamorphic material and inspecting how it performs there. But so far I'm pretty impressed. Red's working hard to get this pushed out right and proper. Even at night, heh, just like me :)
 
Medavoym said:
Currently, the magenta line(s)/band(s) is a huge problem on the Dragon. I don't care if "it's a typical CMOS thing" etc
It's not that bad on other CMOS cameras I've shot with (not even close), and it's much, much worse than the MX sensor!
Something's definitely wrong.

Take a small LED light, shoot straight into it and pan the camera around it.
See for yourself.
Click to expand...

i've ve tried to reproduce this with a few different sources and I have not been able to.

battistella
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top