DRAGONolor2 and REDcolor4 Beta and the H20 underwater OLPF

[Medavoym]

Not good to ban people on Christmas Eve, in my humble opinion.
And for such a post (not overly aggressive).

Unless I am missing something?...

Jarred knows best. But it did seem to come out of the blue to the uninformed Reduser reader.

Regardless - cheers and Happy Holidays everyone! Let's all try to be good.

 

[Phil Holland]

I've been fortunate to test out DRAGONcolor2 and REDcolor4 on my last few gigs now. I just wrapped and got in town, but I'll share some images soon.

Mostly I've been focused on DRAGONcolor2 and as Jarred mentioned you'll notice a "truer blue". Which is nice on subtle and deep hues. I think there's also a slight benefit there to skin tones as well. I'll have to post some samples in a bit. You'll certainly see the subtle change on common chip charts, but I've seen improvement on fabrics and skies too with varying values across the IRE range. Subtle but nice. Certainly useful on this last couple weeks of shooting for sure.

I'll have to knock on Adobe's door after the holidays to get them to update the importer and get this implemented quickly. Also, we need to remind them to add D.E.B. into the plugin as it's been in DaVinci Resolve for some time now. Gotta get it done.

New Color Science is always good news and my current project will be swinging over to the "new cool" as of now for sure.

Thanks Graeme, Rob, and "all y'all"!

Quoting myself above to show some examples of what I was talking about.

First I'll focus on DRAGONcolor and DRAGONcolor2. Blue is the "easy one to spot" in terms of the improvement, but like I mentioned there's gains to be had in skin tones and I'd say "general image vibrance".

Everything you see here is some sort of Look with either DRAGONcolor or DRAGONcolor2 toggled.





This example above is pretty much one of the most interesting for me. You can see in my ugly mug that the skin tones pop out a bit more and of course the wall is actually that "truer blue" I mentioned.





You see the same here on the blue on the can but the oranges, reds, and even the muted greens have some more meat to them now.





This flower image shows the general vibrance boost.





On the right of the globe in that blue reflection you'll see a deeper blue.





The neon Hollywood sign frame right is the correct color, but the interesting bit here to me is how much more the mountain detail below the Griffith Observatory seems to sing.





Same deal here with the mountain and brown foreground building.


I no longer have a Mysterium-X body around as I'm shooting 100% Dragon these days, but I have a stockpile of MX footage and test footage that I'm pretty curious about in regards to REDcolor3 and REDcolor4. Same deal as above, just toggled between the two color spaces, and I personally think for MX owners and shooters this particular adjustment is a big freaking deal as blues and purples have been "tricky" especially when using IRNDs and what not. And I'll show you why.





No ND in the above example, but the blues are deeper/richer.





And here's a boring chart, but a chart that shows something. This particular image I think was ND .9 or 1.2 with an IRND. Take a look in particular at the purple and blue chips. I think that's a pretty interesting and useful improvement in color science specifically when dealing with IRNDs and those hues.

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

N I C E

Quoting myself above to show some examples of what I was talking about.

First I'll focus on DRAGONcolor and DRAGONcolor2. Blue is the "easy one to spot" in terms of the improvement, but like I mentioned there's gains to be had in skin tones and I'd say "general image vibrance".

Everything you see here is some sort of Look with either DRAGONcolor or DRAGONcolor2 toggled.





This example above is pretty much one of the most interesting for me. You can see in my ugly mug that the skin tones pop out a bit more and of course the wall is actually that "truer blue" I mentioned.





You see the same here on the blue on the can but the oranges, reds, and even the muted greens have some more meat to them now.





This flower image shows the general vibrance boost.





On the right of the globe in that blue reflection you'll see a deeper blue.





The neon Hollywood sign frame right is the correct color, but the interesting bit here to me is how much more the mountain detail below the Griffith Observatory seems to sing.





Same deal here with the mountain and brown foreground building.


I no longer have a Mysterium-X body around as I'm shooting 100% Dragon these days, but I have a stockpile of MX footage and test footage that I'm pretty curious about in regards to REDcolor3 and REDcolor4. Same deal as above, just toggled between the two color spaces, and I personally think for MX owners and shooters this particular adjustment is a big freaking deal as blues and purples have been "tricky" especially when using IRNDs and what not. And I'll show you why.





No ND in the above example, but the blues are deeper/richer.





And here's a boring chart, but a chart that shows something. This particular image I think was ND .9 or 1.2 with an IRND. Take a look in particular at the purple and blue chips. I think that's a pretty interesting and useful improvement in color science specifically when dealing with IRNDs and those hues.

 

[Sean Cruser]

I shot some live music this past weekend with LOTS of blue and boy does the new color science make the footage sing.

 

[Scott C]

Quoting myself above to show some examples of what I was talking about.

First I'll focus on DRAGONcolor and DRAGONcolor2. Blue is the "easy one to spot" in terms of the improvement, but like I mentioned there's gains to be had in skin tones and I'd say "general image vibrance".

Everything you see here is some sort of Look with either DRAGONcolor or DRAGONcolor2 toggled.





On the right of the globe in that blue reflection you'll see a deeper blue.

Look at the robot's LED eyes too. Huge difference.

 

[Ryan Hamblin]

How does this translate to mx footage?

 

[Bob Gundu]

How does this translate to mx footage?

You will see improvements just like dragon footage.

 

[Paul Kalbach]

What a great present! Thanks Red Team!

 

[Phil Holland]

Look at the robot's LED eyes too. Huge difference.

Truth. Blue is much more interesting pretty much across the exposure spectrum.

Also, I've learned through cinema to avoid looking robots in the eyes

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Translates to older footage just great! I always test on a range of footage going right back to the original RED One. Both DC2 and RC4 work on older non-Dragon footage, and although I like DC2 just fine on all our footage, RC4 is a similar development upon RC3 as DC2 is on DC for those that like what RC3 did to 1, and MX footage.

Graeme

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Nice improvements Graeme, love the amount of chroma I'm seeing in the mids/highlights.

Phil; in the Putty can shot, the DC2 version looks more orange than in DC1. Which rendering of the can - the slightly redder DC1 or the more orange DC2 - better matches the actual color of the can?

Cheers - #19

 

[Phil Holland]

Nice improvements Graeme, love the amount of chroma I'm seeing in the mids/highlights.

Phil; in the Putty can shot, the DC2 version looks more orange than in DC1. Which rendering of the can - the slightly redder DC1 or the more orange DC2 - better matches the actual color of the can?

Cheers - #19

Hard to say as I shot that about a month ago and there is a look applied to that image. I'll shoot the can and likely some "fresh" charts to do some real pixel peeping.

I can definitely say though the sky and cadence of the Griffith Observatory image is more accurate to my eyes.

 

[Ryan Hamblin]

Translates to older footage just great! I always test on a range of footage going right back to the original RED One. Both DC2 and RC4 work on older non-Dragon footage, and although I like DC2 just fine on all our footage, RC4 is a similar development upon RC3 as DC2 is on DC for those that like what RC3 did to 1, and MX footage.

Graeme

Thanks for the info graeme

 

[Bruce Allen]

Thanks for the tests, Phil! This looks like a real improvement.

I can also see more saturation and color detail in the skin out of the box. THANK HEAVENS.

Is this the low light OLPF or the skin tone one?

Also, I'm very happy that the highlights don't desaturate in the same way that old DragonColor did.

It's easy to desaturate highlights in Resolve. Hard to re-saturate them.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

First of all thank you again Phil for your tireless testing and giving back to this forum. And thank you Graeme for ...well... everything....

And Jarred it seems an underwater test shoot at that classic Fijian dive site named "LAND's END" is in order nest pas?

 

[Phil Holland]

Thanks for the tests, Phil! This looks like a real improvement.

I can also see more saturation and color detail in the skin out of the box. THANK HEAVENS.

Is this the low light OLPF or the skin tone one?

Also, I'm very happy that the highlights don't desaturate in the same way that old DragonColor did.

It's easy to desaturate highlights in Resolve. Hard to re-saturate them.

In the Dragon samples there's both Skin Tone - Highlight and Low Light Optimized OLPF examples. That lower key shot of myself is the STH.

First of all thank you again Phil for your tireless testing and giving back to this forum. And thank you Graeme for ...well... everything....

And Jarred it seems an underwater test shoot at that classic Fijian dive site named "LAND's END" is in order nest pas?

Cheers and thank you Peter. Have a good holiday. Can't wait to see what you're up to next.

 

[Jeff Whitehurst]

Really pleased with this new color science. Notice the profound change in blue/purple side of the chart, the blue water and a general boost in vibrance throughout.
Thanks

 

[luigivaltulini]

Sometimes I see too much saturation in blue .. special conditions ... but as Bruce Allen said well, you can desaturate
The skin to take even more lives, great is simply amazing.
Graeme, you are the best

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[Thommes Ulfeng]

Wow! What a christmas present. It translates very nicely to MX footage indeed.

There has been talk about depreciation in the price of MX cameras from Red. I have to say I feel my camera is increasing in value with these updates.

Merry Christmas, and thank you Red team, Jarred, Graeme and Phil. Good times.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

mmmmmm. Since we have a bit of Jim's spirit this week, what would Jim do here?

I know.. Fuck that guy. Banned.

Jared, I have known Rudi for quite some time, he has been an invaluable contributor to the Red community in all things underwater, it was his initial analysis of Red footage that provided the impetus to solve the very particular and demanding issues that have bedeviled underwater digital cinematography for so long, his knowledge is long standing and truly astounding.

That is not to say, his post was indeed a little on the, well, brusk side, but that is his style, always has been, he says what is on his mind. I respect him for his direct, but often brutal honesty. Growing up in communist Cuba, surviving day to day, the atrocities and the stark reality of it all, will do that to a person, or so I imagine.

And so, in the spirit of the Holiday Season, and in celebration of what the RDC team has accomplished with the new color science and the UW OLPF, I would be most grateful if you might rescind his ban. I know for a fact, that if this all works out as I, and everyone else is fervently hoping, then Rudi will be the first one to admit he was wrong, eat crow. With a rueful smile. That is his style, he is a man of great integrity.

Thank you again Jared, Graeme, and all the Red team for looking out for us, lots of intelligence and determination at work there, not really sure where we'd be without you guys.

Tom