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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DRAGON vs EPIC MX Noise - NOT GOOD

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Maz Mawlawi said:
wow..... that really shows what's been happening...
Click to expand...

Those tests are nothing new... nothing has changed since we started shipping the new OLPF. The only thing that changed is that in the last month we have been shipping truck loads of cameras... so there are more opinions one what people want.

With the old OLPF, after a while the feedback from the owners using the cameras said they wanted better skintones, less flare and would love more room in the highlights.

Now people are requesting that stop from the top put back down to the bottom. As I said when i released the new OLPF.. this is all optional.. and up to you guys.

Obviously you can't have everything.. but if you choose the new OLPF we can make the noise on the bottom better as I already mentioned.. noise is much easier to deal with than clipped highlights.

If the new OLPF isn't for you, then you can choose the old OLPF, but that means we can't give you the extra stop on the top, but we can give you back the old flares and the old skintones, :)
 
an itty bitty tweak in the low end noise via Natress sauce is all we needs i thinks. :)

That new OLPF is pretty stunning in MANY situations compared to MX.

"friends don't let friends clip highlights" (or have mullets for that matter) Stoplights are your friend.

Battistella
 
mmmh. i have two cameras. one is a dragon, 2nd still MX ... maybe the 2nd with the old OLPF ... just thinking ;-)
 
Peter Majtan said:
Jarred - maybe I am going a bit crazy here - but I know you guys have been playing around with a modular "behind-the-lens" ND solution...
It would be amazing to have the OLPF modular (user-echangeable) as well. This way folks can have several OLPFs at hand and chose the one (with appropriate calibration) to suit the particular needs.
Click to expand...


Jarred Land said:
your not crazy.. that was always the intention, user replaceable OLPFs. We have about 6 different ones already that we have made along the way ( IR PASS , no LP, etc. ) so it is a cool option.

Problem is that as easy as it seems for our engineers to do it, for normal people like me it is kind of a pain in the ass to change the OLPF without the proper custom tool.

I guess we could just make a bunch of tools....
Click to expand...


You can think ND filter wheel.

Dual layer - ND + OLPF choices.
No need for custom tool and fiddling around the sensor on set.
Click - done.

;)







The price: front module and sacrifice in compactness.
The gain: significant.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
No need for replacements.
Think ND filter wheel.

Dual layer - ND + OLPF choices.

;)







The price: front module and sacrifice in compactness.
Click to expand...

I'd personally like a much weaker olpf to squeak out even more detail.
 
I'd like the ability to choose what I like for a specific project if that ability is achievable.

:)

Strong/medium/clear(none) OLPF would do the trick.

If the premise is having a modular camera system, I propose considering modular front side as well with a wheel option.
NDs, mechanical shutter, OLPFs.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
I'd like the ability to choose what I like for a specific project if that ability is achievable.

:)

Strong/medium/clear(none) OLPF would do the trick.

If the premise is having a modular camera system, I propose considering modular front side as well with a wheel option.
NDs, mechanical shutter, OLPFs.
Click to expand...

Yes yes yes
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
I'd like the ability to choose what I like for a specific project if that ability is achievable.

:)

Strong/medium/clear(none) OLPF would do the trick.

If the premise is having a modular camera system, I propose considering modular front side as well with a wheel option.
NDs, mechanical shutter, OLPFs.
Click to expand...

Heh heh... o great, I think we opened up a whole new can of worms. :)
 
Marc Wielage said:
That is not true. Colorists use what's necessary for a project -- no more, no less. I can think of dozens (if not hundreds) of TV series that use no LUTs, or use custom LUTs that merely bring the image into range. How many colorists do you know?
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Haha, 15-20 colourists, probably more, here in D, NL, GB, USA, RSA. Ok, we are on the same thing Marc. With LUTs I mean the creative usage of custom made LUTs. Mentioning the availability of LUTs inside Speedgrade is exactly this: They have been created by skilled persons, probably by Lin Keyser and can be used as a LUT to grade "through" for looks like teal-orange, or BW, or specific film look, or whatnot.

Bit off-topic. Back to noise.

Regards,

Hans
 
Current OLPF.

Snap in, click in, behind the lens ND tuned to the specific IR of the RED OLPF (this one).
Easy to change as a regular lens change.

I think this is what motion mount is for though.

Battistella
 
I think we are forgetting camera re-calibration in these OLPF discussions. The last change of OLPF required a re-calibration that could only be done by RED.

Now if that was actually just an excuse to change the 'goalposts' of where the camera starts to see and where it ends well that is something else (but it does mean we cannot be rid of this red noise by firmware)

Whatever the deal is I would like a situation where all cameras (within reason ie those who have old OLPF and calibration can keep it if they like) have a calibration that is consistent with their OLPF. We have Dragon 1.0 and Dragon 1.1 at the moment. I would prefer that is as far as it goes if possible.
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
Haha, 15-20 colourists, probably more, here in D, NL, GB, USA, RSA. Ok, we are on the same thing Marc. With LUTs I mean the creative usage of custom made LUTs. Mentioning the availability of LUTs inside Speedgrade is exactly this: They have been created by skilled persons, probably by Lin Keyser and can be used as a LUT to grade "through" for looks like teal-orange, or BW, or specific film look, or whatnot.

Bit off-topic. Back to noise.

Regards,

Hans
Click to expand...

Speed grade use 3d luts.
 
Jarred Land said:
then you can choose the old OLPF, but that means we can't give you the extra stop on the top, but we can give you back the old flares and the old skintones, :)
Click to expand...

To which extent it is evident that it should be one or the other? Any chance of another OLPF with the desired properties on the top and bottom. It sounds like the new OLPF has effectively properties like a ND filter reducing light.

I'm fine and satisfied with the new OLPF, but since in my needs sensitivity is a critical issue, would have appreciated if the effect of the new OLPF to the noise level had been stated explicitly and loudly enough. It creates a sigh when figuring this out only from other users while the camera is coming back from the upgrade. Though, do also understand so well that for several reasons it is not that easy for RDC to announce this kind of issues during the development process.
 
Jarred Land said:
Now people are requesting that stop from the top put back down to the bottom. As I said when i released the new OLPF.. this is all optional.. and up to you guys.

Obviously you can't have everything.. but if you choose the new OLPF we can make the noise on the bottom better as I already mentioned.. noise is much easier to deal with than clipped highlights.

If the new OLPF isn't for you, then you can choose the old OLPF, but that means we can't give you the extra stop on the top, but we can give you back the old flares and the old skintones, :)
Click to expand...
Thanks Jarred, we are really lucky to have these options.
I love how clean the old olpf looked in the blacks, I hope that we can get it as clean or very close with the new olpf, but if we can't, I might consider replacing to the old olpf.
I don't like the flares of the olpf's though, lol.
I wish we could have everything.
 
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