Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DRAGON vs EPIC MX Noise - NOT GOOD

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thanks Jan,

Italy is a third world country when it comes to internet. Shameful.

Battistella
 
i think it is important to understand that the shadows is not the only parametr in choosing a camera and def not why i chose to upgrade.colors alone, not even dr, was enough for me to choise it and is what has strengtjened reds relevance here.

other than that: what hans said... :-)
 
yes , for me, too, it´s not really an "issue" - the image, especially highlights and color from dragon in controlled condition is too good to be not satisfied ... and it´s a camera for making cinema, so there should be light at the set to paint the scene ...
 
i have Alexa footage here from this weekend ... and you won´t believe it: there is noise, too ;-)
 
As I looked through reams of r3d's today I think the noise is not significantly different on my camera compared to the many r3ds that have been posted. The only exception I have seen Gunliek is from your Dragon which has extremely clean blacks compared to any other r3d's I see. The specific ones are the ipad super 65 tests and the London test. All of those r3d's are significantly cleaner when it comes to underexposure.

Not going to post anything or anything like that, but there was something in that color OLPF combo that was bang on, wide DR and blacks that looked black and didn't display color pattern noise, though I did see similar noise on many other r3d examples.

Just left scratching my head at this point.

Battistella
 
Some Mods are doing a very good "job" in how they describe this issue as in some way acceptable.
 
D Anderson said:
Some Mods are doing a very good "job" in how they describe this issue as in some way acceptable.
Click to expand...

Lets not take things in that direction. This is one of the most constructive threads I've seen in recent months.

Battistella
 
Everyone take a deep breath :-)

No need to panic whatsoever. I also see the "reddish" noise in the darker areas of the frame (which wasn't there before), but RED - as stated - is already working on it.
It will get fixed with a firmwire upgrade, as usual.

Why is everyone freaking out? Have you forgotten how RED operates? They are always working on improving the image, always releasing updates, always pushing the envelope.
It's a deja-vu for me (in the best sense of the word), so I'm totally relaxed - it will get fixed in a firmwire update, like COUNTLESS times before. It's RED, so you have to expect that. And, actually, be happy they are tackling the problem head on, and not simply say "this is the camera, we released it like that, this is the best we could do, now deal with it".

Why do you think the reddish noise appeared, anyway? It's because RED tried their very best to improve the overall image. And Dragon produces a fantastic image otherwise (color rendition, dynamic range at the top, skin tone etc - all absolutely great!). Maybe they went a bit too far trying to squeeze the very best of the sensor… maybe they overlooked what happens in the dark if they did something at the top… I don't know, I'm not an engineer. All I know, is that RED acknowledged the problem, and already stated they are working on it. This is enough for me to know they will come through with a solution… as usual. And I applaud them for it - as usual.

This thread is great - it's vital that users bring up problems so RED knows they need to fix it (I was in contact myself with RED about it).
All I'm saying, let's take a deep breath, not freak out, and wait for a solution. I'm an early adapter - going back to the RED ONE days - and RED has never disappointed me. On the contrary.

P.S. Jarred, Brent - thanks for posting in this thread and not shy away from the problem. Graeme, thanks for working hard behind the scenes (looking forward to your solution). Sometimes, when a problem appears (and problems always appear, it's in the nature of things), it's easy to become fixated on it, and forget the big picture.

--
 
Last edited:
agreed. The Fire Chief has acknowledged the problem, feels comfortable that a diagnosis and fix is on the way. I don't see why anyone is leaping to the defense of the sensor's current incarnation - it's not right yet, it's doing some things better and some things not as well - no one signed up for that...

RED has worked hard to optimize its sensors since the beginning (um, Build 12 RED ONE for me...) after their release, and I see them eager and willing to do the same today. This is a good thing. RED is listening. They didn't need apologists then and don't need them now. I think we believed this time would be different, that the process would be different because it was a long wait. But it's the same. This is not a problem, we just need to reset some expectations and let them do their thing.

They've seen examples of the issues at hand. They're on it. I believe they will calibrate the new sensors to meet their stated goal of delivering noticeably cleaner, superior results, not merely parallel results....
 
D Anderson said:
Agreed but i`m not sure being soft to this problem is constructive.
Click to expand...

what does that mean? Who do you want to call out and scream at? The president of the company has acknowledged and it's being looked into. What are we supposed to do? Am I missing something?

Should we we all type in all caps?

:)


battistella
 
David Battistella said:
what does that mean? Who do you want to call out and scream at? The president of the company has acknowledged and it's being looked into. What are we supposed to do? Am I missing something?

Should we we all type in all caps?

:)


battistella
Click to expand...

I`m saying mods need to walk a fine line - not asking anyone to scream - I never said that - Perhaps this is the mods method of trying to make sure no one starts screaming? I`m saying I think they are trying to put across too positive a spin on this problem. But doing so could hurt their credibility. This is serious and the problem should not be there.
 
Last edited:
D Anderson said:
3 "versions" of a camera all reacting to light in different ways is a SURE FIRE way to send producers running for the hills.
Click to expand...
But aren't these folks in practice, renters? You trust the rental houses to know the difference and give you matching cameras, No?

Being the sole user of my cameras, I like the idea of having firmware (or whatever solution comes down) that fits my shooting. And since most of my scenes are daylight scenes, I'm happy with the new OLPF. I'll kick on HDRx if I need to setup for pulling detail from any shadows.
 
Elsie N said:
But aren't these folks in practice, renters? You trust the rental houses to know the difference and give you matching cameras, No?
Click to expand...
If you think this is GOOD. Hey its a "feature"! Go ahead. Keep thinking that.
 
D Anderson said:
If you think this is GOOD. Hey its a "feature"! Go ahead. Keep thinking that.
Click to expand...

By your tone, I guess you think trusting rental houses isn't a good thing?

But as I added in my post after you had quoted it, (sorry, I reread my own posts and sometimes add or subtract from them)

"Being the sole user of my cameras, I like the idea of having firmware (or whatever solution comes down) that fits my shooting. And since most of my scenes are daylight scenes, I'm happy with the new OLPF. I'll kick on HDRx if I need to setup for pulling detail from any shadows."
 
Elsie N said:
By your tone, I guess you think trusting rental houses isn't a good thing?

But as I added in my post after you had quoted it, (sorry, I reread my own posts and sometimes add or subtract from them)

"Being the sole user of my cameras, I like the idea of having firmware (or whatever solution comes down) that fits my shooting. And since most of my scenes are daylight scenes, I'm happy with the new OLPF. I'll kick on HDRx if I need to setup for pulling detail from any shadows."
Click to expand...

This is a can of worms. RED cameras already get you to jump through hoops - As Battistella says RED says they acknowledge the problem and are working on it. I just hope they simplify things rather than the other way. We all look forward to the day when REDs are taken more seriously and are used on more productions. I hope the solution to this problem does not hinder that.
 
D Anderson said:
This is a can of worms. RED cameras already get you to jump through hoops - As Battistella says RED says they acknowledge the problem and are working on it. I just hope they simplify things rather than the other way. We all look forward to the day when REDs are taken more seriously and are used on more productions. I hope the solution to this does not hinder that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been and advocate for simplification my ownself. That's why I just ETTR and honestly, don't notice the problems some of the more professional shooters on here seem to encounter. But if there is indeed a fly in the firmware, I'm all for getting it out. If it is just a tradeoff type of thing, I'm hoping for the option to keep what I have.
 
tonight i will do another test, the difference of Erics cameras are significant, i will see what ours here will tell us - with a same situation, today´s first test gave better results here as you have seen
 
Unsurprisingly, I am all for documentation. And problemsolving.

I think this is a healthy discussion. And I'm all for it :)

And if I am interpreted as "don't scream", it is because I think it is important to not lose track of what we're dealing with here: a great cam that can get better and the resolution of an issue.

But...
There is a tendency here at times to maximise problems in one moment, and complain why other cameras get the rental bizz the next.
The willingness I have seen here at times to badmouth ones own investment (to solve issues, I am sure), and then the next moment being surprised over the "FUD on RED out there", is... at times... How to put this?
Somewhat entertaining.

I happen to think that there is at times a corelation about how equipment is perceived, and how people talk about it here and other places.

I had the opportunity to duo-shoot epic and Dragon the other day, and no matter these issues, or others I may be aware of, there is no stopping me picking the Dragon 100 out of 100 times, if given the option.
This was not my cam, and it was new olpf.

That's what I mean by: don't lose track.
And I cannot really see myself as "just a RED servant", as I know I have had good and bad times with my relation to RED. :)

So all I say, and mean, is:
Keep it civil.
Document
Get in a dialogue with RED, if possible.

And let's give things the focus they deserve, without burning down the house.

Just an opinion of course. But still a heartfelt one.

Cheers

G
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top